226 replies to this topic

[William Petersen]

Victor Morson, on 14 May 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

Really the Shadow Hawk and Dragon should be on the poll.  The Shadow Hawk is just horrendous, barring a few later-day variants, too.</p>

The -2H has a maximum damage potential of 19.  The -2D has around the same armour as a Jenner with a maximum damage potential of 28, but 4 tons of ammo just waiting to be critted once you breach its paltry armour.  (Clarification:  I'm not saying 4 tons of ammo is inherently bad, but when you bring 2 tons of SRM-2 ammo for 2 launchers, you're doing it wrong, and when you take lots of ammo on a mech that has pathetic armour, you're doing it even more wrong).

Of note is that all that damage potential spans multiple ranges, so at long range you won't be able to bring to bear but about 10 damage.  At close ranged you lose the LRM, and at 'point blank' range you lose the AC/5, too.
The shadowhawk is trash.  It excels at nothing, but it's also not a 'jack of trades'.  It's just a JokerMech.

Edited by William Petersen, 14 May 2012 - 07:16 PM.

[Sassori]

Solis Obscuri, on 14 May 2012 - 06:13 PM, said:

I think the two shots is a minimum after you fail a piloting skill role for massive critical damage and 20+ damage/round from being cornholed with an AC/20, but maybe get ready and are able to get up and maneuver away after the next turn.

And 6.5 tons is the max a 30 ton chassis can carry, soo...

Not to mention the number of people with boners over the Hatchetman, and that's crap stacked 45 tons high, and still... wait for it... just 6.5 tons of armor.

The Urbie's still utterly useless in any kind of open terrain, but in close confines they are nasty for their weight/BV.

The Protomechs are indeed abominations. I don't think I can top that...

Why would anyone fail a roll from taking 20 points of damage? That's not hard to make, it's extremely easy to make, and if you are stupid enough to let ANYTHING with an AC 20 get into your back at that short of range, then you deserve to die.

Betting on other people's stupidity is not the way to try and promote a mech. I'd say if the way the mech is good depends on the pilot being an *****, then the mech is not good.

A 2/3 movement is just horrific, I never said anything about increasing the armor, you just can't get /good/ armor on a chassis that light, by compounding it by giving it limited range limited ammo firepower is just sheer idiocy. It moves so slow it can't even outrun infantry really.

There is nothing /good/ about the Urbanmech in any configuration due to it's light tonnage and low speed. That's a cold hard truth.

Then again judging by much of the forums I guess I shouldn't be surprised that /anyone/ would defend the Urbanmech like it's the second coming of kerensky.

[Kanatta Jing]

Nothing about the the Baboon?

Or the Thorn? How many wars have been fought in the Inner Sphere to control the apparent legions of Thorns that exist?

Also the solution to every problem is to throw more Thorns at it.

[Melissia]

The flea

But I love it anyway.

[loganthevi]

Inteli, on 14 May 2012 - 05:06 PM, said:

Charger...really, an assault mech with some small beams? wow. I wanna see someone pilot that.

Dude, the Banshees all have small lasers, and some of those are pretty awesome, namely the 3S and 5S (personal fave). Small Lasers deal 3 damage per point of heat, a med does 5 to 3 and so on, on a damage to heat ratio that puts it pretty high up there. With it's speed it can also get that into range, if not into the back armour. With that speed it can also get in good punches. Charger has the Hatamoto based off it, which is also pretty awesome, you just have to know how to use them.

[Kargush]

The standard Banshee 3E.

[Hardac]

Protomechs and LAM's. They're just so bad looking. LAM's because they're just macross wannabes and protomechs because they're so cartoony. They're like transformers that should have been aborted. Awful awful awful.

[Vectoron The Black Minister]

Sleepy Head, on 14 May 2012 - 04:30 PM, said:

MadCat. Not even trolling.

/flamesuit

See this is funny because hes totally trolling!

[shortpainter]

Any protomech is the worst cause they don't fit into the Battletech/Mechwarrior universe.

Also, the best part of Battletech is going into the field with flawed designs and using one mech make up for the faults of another. Yes, the urbie is one of the worst mechs ever in the wrong environment. However, if you use a faster mech to agro an enemy mech into the right spot, you can put an urbie behind it and unload with an AC10. It does not matter if the mech moves 2/3 and has no armor, it just put 10 points of damage into a mech's rear cause it was used right despite the flaws of its design.

[Hagan]

The Annihilator, without a doubt, is one of the slowest, ugliest and under powered mechs on the field.
It shouldn't turn my stomach, but it does. Its a slow, mid-ranged, city brawling assault mech in one variant, and an AA-Mech with theLostech upgrades. The fact it can have rings run around it by light mechs isn't the problem, its when you can do it in an Assault mech that you realize just how flawed the design is.

[Steinar Bergstol]

Anything after the original 3025 Technical Readout. Gimme my unseens, darnit! Darn kids with their fancy tech and shiny new mechs straight off the assembly line. A mech should be at least a couple of generations older than its pilot! And get off my lawn, ya whippersnappers!

[Tincan Nightmare]

kargush, on 14 May 2012 - 09:12 PM, said:

The standard Banshee 3E.

Hey if you compare it to the Charger, while it loses a little speed, it still is as fast as most heavies (at least IS) and as fast or faster than other assaults. And for all the people saying how well the Charger serves as a melee brawler, 95 tons packs more puching and kicking damage than anything bar an Atlas. Plus while a single PPC and AC/5 are not great (kinda low end medium Mech armament) it still gives it some reach and punch, unlike the 5 light lasers the chargers got.

Can't believe no one has brought up the Hussar, it has honest to god tinfoil for armor. Its the only Mech design that fears an infantry rifle platoon. It may have some speed and reach with its ER laser, but its the only Mech you could hunt with AC/2's. And ProtoMechs are the one reason even the other Clans should have helped annihilate the Smoke Jaguars, what the hell does anyone need a midget Mech for! If you have battle armor infantry and Light Mechs, what the hell do you need ProtoMechs for, doorstops?
You could put wings on them so they could be the flying monkeys from Wizard of Oz.

[Tincan Nightmare]

Oh and also the JagerMech. It may be a Fedsuns unit, but 6 tons of armor on a freaking 65 ton heavy!!! It may have reach with those AC's, but its pretty sad when a Panther can out armor you and weigh half as much.

[Duncan Jr Fischer]

Whoever says Urbie or Charger are bad mechs, this person has clearly no TT experience. They are very capable mechs, moreover, they are killers in good hands.
It's much harder to tell what such mech as SHD-2H Shadowhawk was made for, it's equally bad for everything on any range. No any good weapons, no armor, full of explodable ammo... I'd vote for SHD-2H, hate that mech)

Update: Reading comments above I see I'm not the only one to notice)

Edited by Duncan Jr Fischer, 15 May 2012 - 12:47 AM.

[LordDeathStrike]

other: quadrapalegic mechs aka quads. they have nil turn speed, low armor, severly lack firepower for weight, and people are drooling ***** fanbois for them none the less.

[Owl Cutter]

"Awful" is subjective, and in the OP also very vaguely defined.  The first thing to come to my mind is the Hellstar, not so much because it's "over-optimised," or because in some contrived theoretical scenario you can end up with a boring 'mech selection due to every one bringing one and not be able to just drop it from the list of available options, nor even because it ruffles so many feathers it sucks a lot of fun out of the game.  For me it's mostly because it just gets a reputation that seems unfairly exaggerated.  Clan über-Peepers and "almost but not quite enough" cooling are both over-valued by the standard BV system, and it really shows in the 3000 base BV.  It's also a specialised design that is not nearly so hot against almost anything that's not another battlemech, (perhaps most dramatic in the case of infantry ) and is not really even optimal for its particular focus since it uses a sub-optimal actuator configuration and weapons placement- not to mention having one double heat sink less than it really ought have.  

Prosperity Park, on 14 May 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

[image of nightmarish Proto omitted]

Ugh, I wish I could just forget about all those horrible Protomech illustrations, and a bunch of idiotic WizKids-era quads for that matter...  

This is kinda tangential but I wanna put something positive here, so...  I am a fan of the Urbie's cheeky style.  I think of it as a capability-enhancing add-on system for infantry, primarily a morale-boosting glorified field gun.  Maybe while you're busy stepping on its foot and laughing at its head popping open, you get lots of squishies trying to bite your knees off.  Personally, I prefer Quickscell's urban armor, (because it's fluffed as poorly put together) but to each their own.  (My "standard" fluffy tank lance for that role is an SRM Carrier and 3 Hetzer; lotsa ouchies for the money.)

I like quads, too.  They're probably not great for powergaming, but to me one of the most definitive characteristics of the battlemech is that it's harder to mobility kill than a tank, so I like the extra legs and PSR bonus.  Speaking of PSR bonus, melee attacks are another of those definitive characteristics, and though I'd rather punch than kick with a biped, I'd prefer kicking most of the time if I had the quads' -2 bonus.

Edited by Owl Cutter, 15 May 2012 - 01:46 AM.

[SeDevri]

Quickdraw QKD-4G: its just awful.

Worse than the Dragon imo. Only long ranged weapon is an LRM-10 which isn't reliable damage and almost HALF its short ranged weapons fire in the REAR ARC. Absolute trash.

[Karl Streiger]

None of the given mechs is the worst mech. When used for what they were made of you have a good working unit.
The URBAN-Mech...for urban battlefields, the CHARGER to charge into the enemy.

So there is no worst as well there is no best mech. All depends on your style. I think the MadCat or the Hellstar are the worst...because they work at the optimum - everything that work at optimum is kind of boring.

[Project Dark Fox]

The BJ-1 Blackjack. It's like an UrbanMech with even less focus, though give it props for being cheap, decently armored, and jump-capable. Still, until it tries to close in with its quartet of medium lasers I'm only going to laugh at the 14 tons of wasted tonnage in its dual AC/2s.
The BJ1-DB and the BJ-2 variants however are pretty sick. They'll do some damage for their size.

Edited by Project Dark Fox, 15 May 2012 - 02:52 AM.

[Sassori]

... Why some people persist in thinking 2/3 movement is /EVER/ a good thing is just beyond me. Remove the AC 10, give it a Large Laser. Use saved weight to give it 6/9/6 movement with same armor and add a medium laser. Then it's become good, then it can actually flank people and be a credible threat.

How /anyone/ would let something as slow as a 2/3/2 get behind them is beyond me, infantile grasp of tactics.