23 replies to this topic

[Spinning Burr]

See poll above.

Edited by Spinning Burr, 08 December 2012 - 07:33 PM.

[MAXrobo]

there should be an option to have all of a certain chassis have ECM. such as all the ravens, commandos, cicadas, and atlai (for what have been released so far)

[Ryvucz]

I don't see an option like...

"I don't know, that many more mechs running around with ECM scares me".

'(^.^)'

[shabowie]

Should be option for allowing it on all mechs, like other equipment, and balancing it accordingly.

[KuruptU4Fun]

Your poll needs to have the following added to it, Follow canon from established sources....

[KuruptU4Fun]

shabowie, on 08 December 2012 - 07:57 PM, said:

Should be option for allowing it on all mechs, like other equipment, and balancing it accordingly.

So in your opinion of we put a group of 10 high school kids; 10 professional paintballers; and a group of 10 Navy Seals in a gymnasium and give them all machine guns and think that that is playing fair?

[Cerlin]

God please dont put this on all mechs. If anything Id keep it on fast ones so at least they were fragile. Besides that Im not interested in seeing many more (especially large) mechs with ecm.

[shabowie]

KuruptU4Fun, on 08 December 2012 - 08:06 PM, said:

So in your opinion of we put a group of 10 high school kids; 10 professional paintballers; and a group of 10 Navy Seals in a gymnasium and give them all machine guns and think that that is playing fair?

That's a really bad analogy. Unless you are saying that different mech classes and chassis are that unbalanced, in which case the designers should buff or nerf chassis on a case by case basis. Adjusting allowed engine size and hardpoints allowed would be the easiest way to do it.

What I said was they should allow all mechs to equip it, and balance accordingly.

Edited by shabowie, 08 December 2012 - 08:11 PM.

[FrostCollar]

shabowie, on 08 December 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

What I said was they should allow all mechs to equip it, and balance accordingly.

I believe I've mentioned this elsewhere on the forums, but it is applicable here.

This logic supports giving all mechs jump jets and giving all mechs universal weapons ports. Different mechs should have different advantages. Giving ECM to all mechs would be ridiculous. At least now if you see enemies covered by ECM, it is possible to guess which mechs are carrying it. If anything, less mechs should carry ECM.

[skullman86]

I think maybe a dragon or centurion might have a use for ECM.

I'm ok with variant specific gear as long as the rest of the variants have something that makes them worth taking. You don't want the electronic warfare variant to outclass all the rest or else it will affect what people field. Also, giving ECM some soft counters (letting BAP, NARC, and TAG counter it under certain circumstances) would make mech selection less of a no brainer.

[Tennex]

i think it would make sense for all or most varients of the Raven chassis to have ECM. It should't just be 1 variant in any chassis group. it feels too forced that way

Edited by Tennex, 08 December 2012 - 08:17 PM.

[KuruptU4Fun]

shabowie, on 08 December 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

That's a really bad analogy. Unless you are saying that different mech classes and chassis are that unbalanced, in which case the designers should buff or nerf chassis on a case by case basis. Adjusting allowed engine size and hardpoints allowed would be the easiest way to do it.

What I said was they should allow all mechs to equip it, and balance accordingly.

You can't balance everything accordingly if they all have the same tool. The three groups speak more to experience, some have it and use it, some don't and need it, and others have it but haven't used it in some time.

[PiWright42]

I did not vote. I do not see an option that covers my concern, (which would be, "None till it's balanced better").

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea of ECM and the change in tactics it brings to the game. Like creeping along side a friendly Atlas with ECM then shooting forward engage like the proper ankle biter I am. Or an entire team staying at their base in order to counter not having ECM which makes for an excellent brawl.

But ECM has also brought two over sweeping changes to the strategies of the game that seem to serve as an alarm for a balance pass.

First there are less missiles, which is good. Problem is I see almost no LRMs any more. Don't get me wrong I hate LRMs when they are shot at me, with Artemis, while I am stuck in clipping, and do not have AMS, but LRMs should be a viable strategy for PuGs as well as teams and when I make the sacrifices to stuff a TAG on my Jenner I want to be able to know someone, on my team, will benefit from the one less heatsink I could have carried.

Second The four variants that can mount ECM have nearly over night become the most prolific models fielded. I think that speaks for it's self.

I have gotten three mechs that can mount ECM and tested it. I do not call ECM OP but I sense it is an edge that is a skoche too sharp for the time being.

[Vassago Rain]

One cent and the appropriate founder mechs. I know most of them are hangar queens right now.

[shabowie]

KuruptU4Fun, on 08 December 2012 - 08:20 PM, said:

You can't balance everything accordingly if they all have the same tool. The three groups speak more to experience, some have it and use it, some don't and need it, and others have it but haven't used it in some time.

It's still a horrible analogy. You can't balance player skill/experience, and that isn't what anyone is talking about. The topic is about equipment on chassis.

[topgun505]

The problem is they AREN'T fragile at present. Knockdown has been taken out. All mechs other than lights do half damage to lights. LRMs generally aren't taken now for fear of the opposing side will have superior ECM. The net code has gotten a bit worse to the point where fast movers are frequently porting 20m at a time. The one weapon which could typically negate that has been taken out due to ECM if you don't have more ECM overpowering theirs. So unless you are willing to specifically build a majority of your team around counter ECMing it's pretty difficult to kill a light. In short, lights have very few natural predators aside from other similar equipped ECM lights ... and then it boils down to who has more of them. Very monochromatic.

Cerlin, on 08 December 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

God please dont put this on all mechs. If anything Id keep it on fast ones so at least they were fragile. Besides that Im not interested in seeing many more (especially large) mechs with ecm.

Edited by topgun505, 08 December 2012 - 08:35 PM.

[shabowie]

FrostCollar, on 08 December 2012 - 08:12 PM, said:

This logic supports giving all mechs jump jets and giving all mechs universal weapons ports.

It's not really like hard points. It's like BAP, AMS, TAG, etc., and should provide a bonus in gameplay of a minor advantage in a like manner.

Jumpjets are just flat broken right now.

Edited by shabowie, 08 December 2012 - 08:47 PM.

[Redmond Spiderhammer]

Where is the 'ALL' Option. Given the major effect ECM has on the battlefield, limiting it to only certain variants is a poor move and hurts mech diversity. I think that is a function of it being a bit too good right now. If it was at where it should be as far as usefulness/weight/space then limiting it to certain chassis and variants might make sense, as it wouldn't be THAT much of a buff. As it is if I decide to ride a light that doesnt have ECM I feel like I am responsible for spotting the enemy team an extra ECM unit. Dont get me wrong.. I'm thrilled to see more ravens on the field, but right now ECM ability is far too much of a buff compared to the other distinguishing chassis and variant differentiators.

[Redmond Spiderhammer]

FrostCollar, on 08 December 2012 - 08:12 PM, said:

I believe I've mentioned this elsewhere on the forums, but it is applicable here.

This logic supports giving all mechs jump jets and giving all mechs universal weapons ports. Different mechs should have different advantages. Giving ECM to all mechs would be ridiculous. At least now if you see enemies covered by ECM, it is possible to guess which mechs are carrying it. If anything, less mechs should carry ECM.

I would support allowing all mechs to equip jump jets, either that or making the jets integral to the chassis so you can't strip them from a jump equipped variant I'd also like to see engine size limited by tonnage or weight class rather than by whatever arcane formula they have going now. Different advantages are good until they make certain variants a no brainer. Unless they make ECM weigh more and take up more space to balance out its benefit, the few mechs that can have it are pretty much a no brainer. If allowing it to be freely equipped would be a nightmare than it is clearly way more effective than it should be

[Aidan Malchor]

KuruptU4Fun, on 08 December 2012 - 08:06 PM, said:

So in your opinion of we put a group of 10 high school kids; 10 professional paintballers; and a group of 10 Navy Seals in a gymnasium and give them all machine guns and think that that is playing fair?

Sounds good to me.