78 replies to this topic

[Urza Mechwalker]

demoyn, on 09 December 2012 - 09:34 AM, said:

Found the problem. Stop wasting tonnage on LRMs. Fix the mech to fit your style. Also, if you have a ping over about 200 you're probably completely useless to your team.

Completely uretly LIES. My ping is between 190 and 250 most of time. And its RARE that there is anyoen in my team that is more efficient than me (counting solo players since I do not make premades)


People really need to realize how short 200ms is

[l33tworks]

Really sorry for the quality it doesn't look so bad on my end.
Here is a typical game for me.







That was from 2 days ago. I am getting better though. I fitted an AC20 back and stayed back instead of gauss. Am using my LRMS are much as I can before moving close with AC20 and lasers because Even atlas gets torn up way too quick to be able to go on the frontlines , just had a 3 kill match because I caught a bunch of mechs standing still in a corridor about mid to end game!

. I still have no idea where to aim the projectiles on anything moving more than 2kph though. Tried aiming ahead. Still missing, I think I am aiming ahead tooo much.

Edited by l33tworks, 11 December 2012 - 05:30 AM.

[BigJim]

l33tworks, on 11 December 2012 - 04:20 AM, said:

Ok Thanks for all the feedback guys .

I'm trying to post some videos of playing but the fraps files are really huge to upload and for some reason you tube seems to be stuck on preparing to upload.

If you can use Premier, or some other app to convert the file to .FLV prior to upping to youtube it makes the process much easier - I literally went from an overnight upload to a half-hour after converting the same file to .flv first.

[Comassion]

Two important things I haven't seen mentioned (enough) in this thread.

1. Stick with other 'mechs in your group as much as possible. At one point you mention 'hanging back for a 1v1' - this is a very bad idea. A light 'mech will totally destroy you if it catches you by yourself. If you stay with a group then you have support, and you can help your group in the main battle.

2. Focus your fire. Don't just shoot someone - look at what your friends are shooting and help them shoot that guy.

3. Make sure you've got max armor. LOTS of stock 'mechs start with far less armor than they could have - gets yours to the top, or close to it.

4. Get Double Heatsinks. More than anything they'll improve your damage output since you'll be able to fire more often.

5. Target enemies with the 'R' key and watch their damage display when you hit them so you know if and where you are hitting. Try to focus on weak spots on their armor.



EDIT:

I just watched your video, here's some feedback on that:

1. You need to never overheat, but you're doing it all the time. When you're at a high heat level, back off from the fight and let yourself cool off. When you are stopped you become a much easier target - even in an Atlas it makes a big difference. When you're up against good players, overheating will cost you your head.

2. LRMs have a minimum range of 180 meters. If you fire at a target below that distance (as you did) you will do no damage.

3. You were doing okay when you were in the cave with your buddies helping them to focus fire on your enemies. You should have kept doing that.

4. It all went wrong at about 1:00 when you charged out to take on the enemy by yourself. The fact that you charged out with 80% heat and promptly shut down in full view of two enemy 'mechs just exacerbated the problem and gave them a very easy target, Look at your armor levels staying pretty good when you're just fighting in the cave (prior to about 0:45) vs. how fast they go down when you start shutting down. Don't run out into the enemy and get yourself killed like that - you'll stay alive longer, do more damage, and get more kills. You cannot get away with doing that in a slow 'mech like an Atlas - you just make yourself the focus fire target and you will die fast.

If there's one main problem that you need to fix to get good, it's this one. Don't charge off by yourself, ever.

5. If you DO find yourself the focus fire target, stop shooting back, start backing away and turn your torso to present your stronger armor sides to the enemy (in that video, your left side was still pretty good). You do more of a service to your team by surviving longer and drawing that fire than you will by dying faster and getting one or two shots off, and if you can back away behind cover the enemy will usually switch targets and you can come back and shoot more.

Edited by Comassion, 11 December 2012 - 06:14 AM.

[Weiland]

You suck so badly that you should probably kill yourself.

Just kidding, mate. You're pretty much ****** no matter what you do. Server-verified netcode makes it damn hard to get any sort accuracy with a high ping. Still. Trololol.

[Opposition]

l33tworks, on 11 December 2012 - 04:20 AM, said:

I understand there is only a certain amount of Total Armour a mech can have regardless of weight but I have not reached that either by the games admission because I can see 70/120 etc and I still cant add more armor to a section I want.

On top of this there is "available" armour, so I have also made plenty of "available" armour slots leftover because I took them out of my legs but I can only put them back in the legs? So I have plenty of overall tons left. Plenty of "available" Armour to spread around I have taken out of the legs, but still I can do nothing with it except add them back to the legs
What gives? I don't want 80 80 in my legs but the game forces me to put do so. Whereas my top is not even close to full and overall weight of the mech even further away from full.

Hmm I think this could be the root of your problems with dying too fast. For the torso locations, the total armor you can place is across the front and rear. So if the total allowed is 120, and you have 50 in the rear, you can only place 70 in the front. You're going to want to allocate more to the front if you are getting cored instantly.

Other than that, stay moving, and not in a straight line. Even in my Atlas I can sometimes juke shots just by randomly slightly adjusting my direction of travel. Torso twisting between your shots can help spread the damage to your undamaged sides and arms.

You ask what is the point of freeing up tonnage when you've filled your armor and hardpoints. You can increase your heatsinks to improve your sustained dps. You can upgrade your weapons. You can get a bigger engine.

(Oh, and Endosteel always always saves more tonnage than Ferro-fibrous.)

[Opposition]

Oh and I had heat problems too with the Atlas D with stock weapons. My solution was to take off the very heavy LRMs and add a pair of very light Streak SRMs (though they aren't as reliable now) and 1-2 tons of ammo. With 4 medium lasers, an AC/20, 2 SSRMs, a stock 300 engine, and near full armor, I think I had 30-31 heatsinks with no endosteel or double heatsinks. That mech felt really good heatwise. Alternatively you can go with SRM 6s for a bigger punch and no weakness to ECM, at the cost of 3-4 heatsinks and increased heat production.

Oh and I don't think anyone has mentioned this, so be sure to spend your pilot xp. If you haven't, that will help with heat and maneuverability.

[Aym]

Also if you get on one of the public TS3 servers or one for your house, people in this game are VERY helpful for the most part and having live help via voice chat is very useful for getting better.

[CooCooKachoo]

Time, practice and patience. I just started this game a couple weeks ago and already have had some wicked games killing a few mechs and landing assists. Perhaps the Atlas just isnt your play style.

I decided to jump into a centurion as my first mech and felt it was a great mix. Use that left arm to shield me from big incoming damage bursts and just be smart as to when to come out shooting. Learning your ideal play style I think can make a bigger difference than your weapon load out.

[MaddMaxx]

It has to be here but I did not see it. If your Atlas has an XL engine, take it out until you get more comfortable. With one in place, one Torso section lost is Match over. Many players can "R" you and tell quickly that you are carrying an XL and then they need not shoot anything but one Torso section.

With a STD engine you can take way more punishment, and you always take Max. (+/-) armor right?

As other have noted, hang in there. Despite what some may think, MWO is in its Infancy, and the future should be very solid as more things get added and more tweaks (netcode, buffs & nerfs) sort out the current status.

Edited by MaddMaxx, 11 December 2012 - 08:09 AM.

[Penance]

l33tworks, on 09 December 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

So I try completely hide stay back for a 1 on 1. Eventually someone gets close.

Well, your ping in Australia could be the main cause. but we really don't know.

Play style really depends on your chassis and build. When I'm in a match and it first starts, the first thing I do is a 360 to see what mechs are on my team. I almost always will then follow the assault or the next heaviest and. If I'm in an Atlas, then I'll find another one and "wingman up", whether or not the teammate realizes it. The key though is to stay in a group. Watch what happens when people start to peel off. Follow the crowd and try not to lag too far behind or ahead. If you're scouting in a light mech, scout, then as soon as your spotted run back to your crew, in all likelihood an enemy light will follow you, or the entire team.

Also, 1 v 1's are not where you want to be. In an atlas, yeah you'll most likely have more armor and firepower, but mobility plays a big part. More mobile mechs will run around you and make your life hell unless you can find a wall to prop your back up against to keep them in front of you.

Try to focus your fire. Find a target that one or two teammates is going against and attack that. Kills will come, but try not to think about them. Play the game, focus fire, and you'll see assist and spotting points racking up, then damage will start to rack up, then kills will come.

Expect droughts now and then. I'll play 3 games in a row, die in two with no kills, die in the third and get a kill, play a fourth and get 2 or 3 kills, and so on. If you PUG, this type of randomness is to be expected.

Also, I watched the 2 videos you posted.

In the second video in the light mech, that can happen to anybody. The keys to light mechs are to stick and move, like a boxer. Hit and runs. A player really needs to have a different mentality in lights...you are not Johnny "mech" Rambo.

In the first video, I think you took Johnny "Mech" Rambo to extremes. I think you left your CT facing the enemy too long (happens to everybody). If it were me, after a few moments of shooting out of that cave entrance, I would've moved to flank and went around the back entrance and shot some lrms at them to help soften them up. You were up against an SRMCAT, and another Atlas at close range, the SRMCAT owned you at that range.

You mentioned you took the Gauss rifle out...Good move as they recently nerfed it, so in a close quarter setting that thing is useless, but it's still good at long ranges.

Also, try to use weapons at their effective ranges to maximize your damage output. As you said you got 3 kills in a close quarter corridor with the AC/20...see how things fall into place?!

Edited by Penance, 11 December 2012 - 08:33 AM.

[TexAce]

You can't possibly be that bad. No one can. You only have to learn what the netcode is and server-side hit detection and you will know what you are doing wrong.

[The Bad Charlie]

demoyn, on 09 December 2012 - 09:34 AM, said:

if you have a ping over about 200 you're probably completely useless to your team.

Negative. I play on 190-220ms and have a KDR of 2.8... Theres a post about lasers somewhere, a very good guide... Also, i tend to agree on LRMs. Unless your an 8 mans dedicated to it, dont. (I dont do that, but ive seen 3-4 RVN and 4-5 AWE wreck us once)

[Gallowglas]

As others have said:

1) Keep moving. Try to jockey for position so that you're staying out of the opposing mechs' firing arcs while keeping them in yours. If you're turning too slowly to keep up with faster mechs, either change the direction of your turn or brake to turn, then accelerate again once they're in your sights again. Use terrain to your advantage to get above/below torso firing arcs and use terrain for cover from missiles/locks/whatever. Use the terrain to control avenues of fire, too.

2) Know your opponent's mech and likely weaknesses. Know which torso is likely to produce ammo explosions, remove your opponent's biggest gun, or where to hit to get a head shot. Know which weapons are best to use against which classes of mechs. For instance, ballistics are often not the best answer for Jenners.

3) Stay away from XL engines unless you really know what you are doing (and almost never in a slow mech). Load CASE into torsos where you're keeping ammo..

4) Stay with the pack. Even if your team is being stupid, sometimes is better to have concentrated firepower to offset the stupidity than to find yourself down 7 to 1 and left to fend for yourself.

All of those things SHOULD help with your survivability.

Edited by Gallowglas, 11 December 2012 - 08:51 AM.

[Xeven]

I dont have a Mechlab atm so this wont be accurate as it could be.

Get the ECM Raven. Put fastest non XL engine you can in it. Max out armor except you can shave a half ton of each leg. Don't put all of your CT armor up front. Make sure back CT has 25% of total availible armor for the CT. Add ECM and AMS and one ton AMS Ammo. Now your fast, stealthy and tough as a Raven can be and have a small amount of protection from missles (AMS).

Throw in as many Streak SRM 2 as you can fit and 2 tons ammo. This will ensure you do some damage when they are locked on and in range.

Fill the energy spots with Medium Lasers (2 is fine if you need weight for other things. Swap to DHS. If enough room load up Endo steel. If room and weight remaining, fill in any remaining space with the Double heat sinks (makes sure to use the slot free engine spots first).

What to do? Play it safe. Stay near hills and any terrain objects that you can use for cover. When any Mech is closer thant 300 meters never slow down, never run in straight lines and never run into anything that would stop you like a building. Never Slow down and you will live longer. It will be harder to hit with lasers if you never slow down but it is ok your trying to survive first and do some damage second.

If you find yourself the center of enemy focus fire you need to run fast away toward cover. In fact to play it completely safe always evade if taking hits. When in trouble run (not straight lines) toward groups of friendly mechs for support and to give anyone shooing at you other target choices.

Now once you got survival tactics down you can begin to join in on going brawls were your team mates are already heavily engaged. Run in and out taking pot shots with medium lasers at the enemies backs preferably use your targeting to pick out enemy mechs already heavily damaged. Aim at damaged areas and you likely get some bonus for component destruction. Don't hang around though, circle away so you wont become a target. Come back in and do another strafing run. This is good time to learn how to lag shoot as well.

Now the Streak SRM's. You can actually group them with your lasers since they wont fire without a lock as long as they are not causing you to overheat. If they do cause overheating simply put them in another group. Perhaps put one of the launchers in with the laser group if it wont overheat you.

When you know it's safe to circle and not hit and run you can make best use of the Streak SRM's you have. Try to always be supporting a Team mate rather than becoming the center of attention for the enemies focus fire.

If your not good and another scout engages you, it may be better to run toward other friendlies in effort to shake the scout off you rahter than attempt 1v1 against the netcodeshield. You may just run through friendly firing lines and circle friendlies in hopes they will focus fire on your agressor.

Once you learn how to survive then you can begin to become more agressive in your fighting.

Also you might swap in a TAG instead of a laser. Often friendly LRM boats will see you have TAGed an opponent and will send missles to support you. I think TAG might help Streaks a bit but not sure either way it's an option and if you have good LRM support you will greatly help your team win.

You could also consider the Cicada ECM Mech in a similar fashion.

Another option it LRM 5 and a ER Large laser. With this set up you could stay way way back do some damage and avoid enemy fire.

Never use an XL engine in a mech where you are likely going to be inside 300 meters of the enemy often.

Edited by Xeven, 11 December 2012 - 10:00 AM.

[Hou]

Comassion, on 11 December 2012 - 05:56 AM, said:

3. You were doing okay when you were in the cave with your buddies helping them to focus fire on your enemies. You should have kept doing that.

4. It all went wrong at about 1:00 when you charged out to take on the enemy by yourself. The fact that you charged out with 80% heat and promptly shut down in full view of two enemy 'mechs just exacerbated the problem and gave them a very easy target, Look at your armor levels staying pretty good when you're just fighting in the cave (prior to about 0:45) vs. how fast they go down when you start shutting down. Don't run out into the enemy and get yourself killed like that - you'll stay alive longer, do more damage, and get more kills. You cannot get away with doing that in a slow 'mech like an Atlas - you just make yourself the focus fire target and you will die fast.

I agree with this. When the enemy Catapult and Atlas backed out of the tunnel, you and your team were winning, or at least the enemies thought so enough that they were seeking to disengage from that particular situation. The problem with moving forward, as you did, is your Atlas is slow, and it takes up almost that entire corridor - that means you emerge from a pinch point, ever so slowly with no back up, and get shot from two sides.

[Gallowglas]

Also, watching the video, I'll concur with what others have said. You hung yourself out to dry at the 1:00 mark on the first video. You let your opponent control the avenues of fire, whereas had you stayed in your original location, it was you and the friendly Catapult who were doing so. Always be conscious of being drawn out of cover and into a firefight where multiple mechs can gang up on you. It may seem natural to chase an enemy that flees because of the perceived opportunity, but it's often a lure. Sometimes it's a gamble that pays off, but often it doesn't.

[LarkinOmega]

If you're still having problems, I'd suggest running another mech. The Atlas takes the MOST skill to pilot effectively. Go out in a Hunchback (I think you mentioned you have one) then use a friendly Atlas or Cataphract as cover and a distraction, shooting their target.

As a side effect, it'll teach you how to properly turn your mech to avoid damage (the Hunch is a big target) as well as how to adjust your aim depending on your ping.

Another thing to do is set up a weapon group for your Med Las as chain fire (all in a group and his backspace) then just hold down the fire button. You can pretty quickly tell if you're hitting (reticle and paperdoll) and adjust until you do. After that it's 1 more mech length per 100ms ping to hit them with Ballistics. So no, you're not leading enough right now.

Good Luck and if we drop on the same team, say something. I'll be more than happy to wingman and then spectate if I die first to give feedback.

[l33tworks]

A few more of the older game play vids. I tried recording new ones but I think the whole time I wasn't recording cant find the videos. To add my OCZ vertex 2 SSD died a quick painless instant death but it took out my pc and now I need to RMA it so no more MWO for a few days at least







Its true I tend to get killed the quickest when I expose myself to more than 1 enemy mech, but then I think hang on everyone else is out there in the open brawling it out why cant I do it? But most of the time I walk in and I just turn to toast lol. Its probably the atlas being targeted first and even more so a founder atlas? but I thought this was the point of atlas. They really don't have that much survability.

About the armour "opposition" raised. Yes I know about front back. These vids are all with 80+ front core amour and high amounts on other front as well so its not that.
Nah not running an XL engine either. I haven't even got close enough money to buy one lol. I have tweaked the amour a bit more at the front now seem to last longer


Thanks for the tip "big jim" to convert to flv first.

I have tried about 6 other mechs. I really like the Catapult. Funnily enough because of LRMS combined with jump jets. I love the jenner too, I can last longer than with my atlas but its hard to aim properly with both the enemy and you moving. I enjoy playing the atlas the most.

Some of the suggestions aim here, target enemy weak parts etc . I know in theory how to, but when I play all that goes out the window. Theres just too much going against me for me to be able to hit what I want (low fps is one of them as well), even with lasers. To be honest I'm just hoping to hit at all, especially ballistic.

Whats worse, if your aiming at a mech circling you and your firing at it with your lasers, If I want to fire ac 20 I have to stop the lasers aim, attempt to move faster than the mech circling me, a whole side to side screen length in front of the enemy mech to compensate for weird firing behavior I have with balistics.

Look at the snow vid where I try get the jenner with a guass. At exactly 1 07 I fire the gauss rifle about at it what I think may hit. It hits completely at the far left of the screen almost out of the screen bounds. So there isn't just firing delay which I actually like as an attribute for ballistics but not if its ping based.

Edited by l33tworks, 12 December 2012 - 06:14 AM.