49 replies to this topic

[John MatriX82]

MavRCK, on 09 December 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

Should really get the 250 engine.

Yep, get a 250, it means 1 less DHS outside of the engine. 4 Mlasers + dual ASRM6 + 2dual smlas or ASRM6+ASRM4 and 5ML is absolutely awesome, 1Dmg per ton, sometimes I can't even reach such an alpha strike with my Dragons.

@Jonny1982: the mlaser in the head is instead extremely useful, if one of your side torsoes pops up, you still can rely on 1 srm launcher and 3 total medium lasers.. and it still can hurt bad a lot of bad

Edited by John MatriX82, 10 December 2012 - 05:22 AM.

[Gaeb]

I've tried the 5xML/2xSRM6...

Currently I run 250 engine + DHS and either
5ML + 2SSRM2 + AMS
4ML + 2SRM4 + AMS

I like the consist damage output (heat spikes very rare, usually chain fire the ML's then occasionally alpha to the tune of ~20% heat) and maneuverability (heh, 87kph hunchie says hello commando/raven running away).

I might try SRM6's out again some day, but for now I like where its at. AMS is only semi necessary - fast and mobile so often outside the friendly ECM umbrella, gives me a cushion if I decide to chase a light into the open for the kill.

Edited by Gaeb, 10 December 2012 - 05:28 AM.

[Elizander]

Ewigan, on 10 December 2012 - 02:28 AM, said:

i do not own a hunchie (yet), but piloting commandos i fell in love with medium pulse lasers.
why does everyone run the hunchie sp with normal lasers?
Heat dissipation that bad with pulse?

Weight can get a bit tight when it comes to fast hunchbacks and we're talking 4-5 Medium Lasers which equates to an extra 4-5 tons that normally go to extra DHS. The only way would be to reduce engine size or go XL.

DocRebuy, on 10 December 2012 - 03:23 AM, said:

I currently run my 4sp with 2srm6, 4 arm mounted small lasers and a medium laser in the head. Endosteel and a 260 engine.
I am still saving up to get double heat sinks. When I have them I 'd like to switch my lasers to ML and run a similar setup to the one suggested in the original post.
So, I know that the 250 engine has a double heat sink advantage over the 245. But how about the 260? Is it even better (heat sink wise) than the 250?
Because I 'd like to keep the 260 and rather strip some srm ammo and/ or some leg armor, if viable.

Engines only get to store an extra Heat Sink every 25 rating so the 260 is no different from the 250. You'd need to go 275 to get an extra sink into the engine.

[MADSix]

I run this with Artemis. Having trouble keeping the heat under control. Was debating dropping artemis for another DHS or 2.

[Elizander]

MADSix, on 10 December 2012 - 06:17 AM, said:

I run this with Artemis. Having trouble keeping the heat under control. Was debating dropping artemis for another DHS or 2.

Your other quick option would be to downgrade to SRM4s for now and see how it works. That should give you 2 tons for the extra DHS without removing Artemis (that's assuming you have a couple of SRM4s lying around).

Edited by Elizander, 10 December 2012 - 06:48 AM.

[Aware]

MADSix, on 10 December 2012 - 06:17 AM, said:

I run this with Artemis. Having trouble keeping the heat under control. Was debating dropping artemis for another DHS or 2.

Take out the head laser. In a drawn out brawl this 4SP and others like it are going to eventually run hot. I run roughly the same as above but with Artemis and a 250 engine. It is easier to sacrifice that 5 damage for a bit better heat efficiency IMO.

[LynxFury]

What's nice about the 4SP is the share variety it brings.

The OP version is a real workhorse for sure but so many others are possible.

Mine is configured for missile support with 2 x LRM15s with Artemis and five tons of missiles, 4 small lasers, BAP, AMS, a 175 engine and a medium laser or tag (depending on patch...lol).

For new players, I highly recommend the "4SP," it can be adapted to play most roles other than deep scout and even in the most tricked out versions is still affordable.

Edited by LynxFury, 10 December 2012 - 07:19 AM.

[Elizander]

Aware, on 10 December 2012 - 07:05 AM, said:

Take out the head laser. In a drawn out brawl this 4SP and others like it are going to eventually run hot. I run roughly the same as above but with Artemis and a 250 engine. It is easier to sacrifice that 5 damage for a bit better heat efficiency IMO.

There are times when I don't shoot the head laser, but it's there for me when my left or right torso gets blown off.

[Stingz]

Aware, on 10 December 2012 - 07:05 AM, said:

Take out the head laser. In a drawn out brawl this 4SP and others like it are going to eventually run hot. I run roughly the same as above but with Artemis and a 250 engine. It is easier to sacrifice that 5 damage for a bit better heat efficiency IMO.

CT/Head weapons are fun to have, lets you keep shooting till you're dead. Never overlook a Centurion with CT lasers, 2 M.Las is enough to kill.

Edited by Stingz, 10 December 2012 - 01:56 PM.

[Obeast]

My current favorite 4sp build is, 255xl, 4xML (in the arms), Tag in the head, 2xASRM6, Endo and DHS. I set Tag to fire with every weapon group so whatever I am firing my SRMs at is automatically tagged so they get the tighter spread. Couple Tag with Artemis and you are talking about some tight SRM6 groups. Almost like they used to be back in CB.

[Farix]

TAG in the head? That's not a bad idea since I find putting a laser pretty useless there. Just set it up for WG4 and assign it to my space bar and away we go. Now if only I can shave off an extra 1/2 ton to I can upgrade the SRM-4 with an SRM-6.

Edited by Farix, 10 December 2012 - 02:45 PM.

[sarkun]

I'm also in favour in using all of the hardpoints on a mech, but the head energy slot is much better suited for a TAG I think. The four lasers in arms are awesome for tracking lights etc, twin SRM6s deal the pain, so the lone laser in the head, tied to torso reticule is useless. TAG makes no heat - so just tie it to all weapon groups, maybe some friendly LRM boat will drop a present for your target.

Speaking of loadout, I use 260XL engine, without Endo-Steel. Gives me another True Double Heatsink, and space and weight to run a total of 18(10) = much better heat efficiency.

[Ryft]

Valrock, on 10 December 2012 - 01:52 AM, said:

I used to run streaks with this setup, the main advantage over the SRM's was in having less weight, meaning I could run AMS and the 250 engine. And while you do lose some alpha strike fire power, i found that consistenly hitting with 4 missles (2 x 2 streaks) provided more reliable damage than the slightly more shotgunned SRM's, particularly when chasing off pesky light's.
This was before ECM, of course.

Overall tho great build, I think I might go get my 4SP out of the garage and blow off the dustballs =)

You should, because it's a great mech! Anyways, the discussion at hand...

Loadout always depends on what you want to get out of the mech. Like I said, I myself used to run streaks as well. With pulse lasers in the arms it was one of the meanest things you could run to chase pesky light mechs away from your team, because it was just fast enough to chase a short distance to get some extra damage into their backsides, and was responsive enough in the arms and torso twist department to score hits with the lasers, and on top of that lights can't really outmaneuver a streak missile that's locked on. Even better, out of desperation if you stood in place and took what a light mech threw at you, you were fast enough with a 250 engine to rotate to keep facing them, which means that they cannot out race you on the circle. And if they tried to trade shots with you in the circle dance anyway, blow for blow, you win because you have the armor of a medium mech, and they didn't.

The *problem* I ran into that changed my mind ultimately had to do with weight distribution, my own playstyle, and my skill level. I run my SP in the thick of a pack of the largest mechs I can follow. I like to be just behind something bigger, ideally. What ended up happening every match was the enemy got their usual 2-4 light mechs, which ran everywhere like light mechs do. Stay with the pack, and even stray shots are enough to eventually run a light mech pretty raw over time. The real action was when their mediums, heavies, and assaults would crash into our mass of larger mechs... with me caught in the middle of it all! I was getting my butt kicked by every random medium or heavier mech that came my way. A common loadout for a Centurion might be an AC10, a couple medium lasers, and a couple streaks... 30 damage? With 4-5 medium lasers and a pair of SSRM2, I'm coming in at about the same 30-35. Other hunchbacks were frequently meaner than I was, with a damage output of roughly 31 (common ghetto delight) to 55 (for an SP packing the same loadout that I now use).

So basically whenever my team got stormed by any real tonnage, that tonnage was hitting as hard or harder than I was, and there are definite limits to what I can pull off with fancy piloting. The SRM6 combo provides a 20 point difference on alpha strikes... that's nearly like having an AC20 sticking out of this thing's center torso, other than that it's not focused damage. On top of that, the streak SRMs couldn't lock onto a target fast enough for me when I was taking shots of opportunity while taking evasive action, but the SRM6 is point and click.

My new solution on those pesky lights? Equip the head laser for some extra firepower when I don't want to take chances with the SRM ammo stores, and... I learned to aim better! The 4 lasers on the arms are still very dangerous weapons in the right hands, and I get probably as many kills against light mechs as I used to, honestly.

That's why these days it's not even a close decision to my mind. SSRMs started including the side torso as a target, and now they no longer target the torso exclusively at all, so their damage isn't much more focused than my SRM6s, which I tend to fire at point blank range anyway. I'm admittedly a poor snap shot with an autocannon, but I'm shooting SRMs at <100m, so that usual handicap doesn't apply to me. And then when you include ECM on *top* of that, the complications that arise from SSRMs outweigh any benefit I could come up with.

[Elizander]

For those who want an easier time rushing through their Hunchbacks to elite the 4SP, you can throw all your 4SP gear on the 4J and it will work almost the same.

Alternatively, you can play the 4J like a 4P with 6 small lasers and maybe 2 streaks or 2 SRM6, whichever you prefer. If you don't want to buy any ballistic weapons, you can skip on the 4G and 4H.

[Wizard Steve]

Elizander, on 09 December 2012 - 11:44 AM, said:

I do believe in maximizing the weapon slots (whenever practical) in order to get the most out of each mech that I have. To this end, I have decided to add a Medium Laser to the head slot to round it off to 5.

I'd drop that extra laser and replace it with an extra heat sink. You're not maximising your damage output with a heat efficiency of 1.13, you're hanging around waiting to fire while you cool down. You also have the issue of one of your lasers pointing somewhere different to the rest of them.

Sustained damage output > alpha damage.

IMHO.

[Elizander]

Wizard Steve, on 12 December 2012 - 12:20 AM, said:

I'd drop that extra laser and replace it with an extra heat sink. You're not maximising your damage output with a heat efficiency of 1.13, you're hanging around waiting to fire while you cool down. You also have the issue of one of your lasers pointing somewhere different to the rest of them.

Sustained damage output > alpha damage.

IMHO.

That's a different philosophy from mine though you are free to go that route if you like. Once I lose an arm or a side torso though, that extra laser comes into play and it gives me 3 instead of just 2. Most of the time, the heat is manageable with 4 medium lasers with the head laser tossed in when there is extra heat or if you think you can get a kill.

An extra DHS will dissipate an additional 0.14 heat per second which amounts to 0.42 heat out of the 4 heat after 3 seconds that a Medium Laser cools down at. At this rate, this will give you an additional Medium Laser shot after 9.52 seconds or an extra 4 Medium Laser salvo every 38.09 seconds in exchange for an additional 5 damage up front.

I just prefer to have the front-loaded damage and the extra DHS will only help dissipate an additional 1/38th of the heat cost of 4 Medium Lasers every salvo. The option of having more firepower when a side torso is lost is also a factor in my decision. 3 Medium Lasers vs 2 Medium Lasers is a 50% damage increase in that given situation.

I'm not saying that not having a head laser is wrong or worse, but I don't think that replacing a DHS for an extra weapon for a better alpha strike and higher damage output once half the mech is destroyed is wrong either.

[Lyrik]

Nice build :-) When I maxed the skills on my 4J, I will get this one :-) It's even better for my current playstyle, so that I don't have to retrain. My first matches on the Hunch were awful. Nearly sold it xD Slower than my jenners and cats (can't install my 265XL on the Hunch), not enough armor and wasn't used to move my arms :-P But now... I like it xD

My build for the 4J is a 200Engine, DHS, Endo, 2MPL in the arms, 2MPL in the side and 2 SRM4 with 2 tons ammo and AMS. Nearly max armor and the rest are heatsinks. I should really switch a MPL to the head. Or switch my 2 Torso MPL to ML. Mmmh.

Can't wait to get the 4SP to evade some of the problems when your torso gets blown off. Which happens often enough that I miss the head laser xD

[Tzukasa]

Debating about getting this frame as my first one. But also was thinkin about the 4P since I've heard going with all lasers for your first one is a good idea to keep arming costs low and build up creds easy. That and I've been using the Jenner trial alot and well I'm not that good with landing the SRM anyway. What do you guys think for the first frame unlock? Go with this 4SP or get the all laser 4P?

[Elizander]

Tzukasa, on 12 December 2012 - 03:59 AM, said:

Debating about getting this frame as my first one. But also was thinkin about the 4P since I've heard going with all lasers for your first one is a good idea to keep arming costs low and build up creds easy. That and I've been using the Jenner trial alot and well I'm not that good with landing the SRM anyway. What do you guys think for the first frame unlock? Go with this 4SP or get the all laser 4P?

4P earns more especially after you sell the medium lasers in the torso and downgrade them to small lasers. Go with that first. It's more forgiving. You can always get the 4SP afterwards once you're more used to the game.

If you want to be cost-efficient with your purchases, I recommend the following:

4P, 4SP, 4J

The missiles can be passed between the SP/J and you can use the J as a mini P with missiles. You won't be wasting weapons and you'll have the option for SRM6 or LRM10 for the SP/J.

If you are not a fan of swapping mechs, sell your extra 200 Standard Engines for more c-bills. I only own 1 of each engine. I sell the extras.

Edited by Elizander, 12 December 2012 - 04:07 AM.

[Ryft]

The first thing I did with my Swayback was sell the medium lasers in the head and torso and replace them all with smalls.

Go figure, I didn't care for it... I honestly couldn't say why everyone seems to like that build. The range is too limiting for me, even on small mechs, though I occasionally still experiment with them on those.