79 replies to this topic

[Memorydump]

building games in about balance, as the game is not officially released yet, they can use you as a test audience. They add in a neat feature? a little overpowered, maybe? require a change in tactics definitely. But you act as if it can't be balanced in a bit once all the dust has settled, just give it some time.

[Xenok]

I do not want a balanced game. I want a game where every rock has its paper and every scissor its Rock. Balance will equate to Modern Warfare in a mech. I do not want that.

That said I am glad we have something like ECM, now I would just like to see BAP, TAG and Narc all get effects that help to counter it.

[Aegis Kleais]

Strakha, on 10 December 2012 - 11:42 AM, said:

Pity you didn't pay attention and actually try to address my point. I don't fear change unless it's change that makes the game unplayable. You can't play the game either? You obviously don't care about this game as much as the rest of us, and you have no right to tell people to just play other things and cross our fingers and hope it gets sorted out.

Things can go in 2 directions from here, and if you don't care if this game fails or not just stay out of it. You're aggravating people who are already aggravated, and making things worse.

Yeah, well, pity that's all you took home from my point. Don't **** with my quotes; it's as bad as putting words in someone else's mouth. And if you think you can talk about how much I care about this game, you obviously don't know ****.

You either stick with the game, complaining or don't, or you don't play the game, and come back to it later, or don't. Not very many other variations other than those.

[Aegis Kleais]

warp103, on 10 December 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

Most of your statements ring true but one. If this was still close then pgi should have all slack in the world. The minute you go open is akin to it being a RC build. So for the person like yourself and me that frankly had better performance in closed beta. Ecm and lrm and netcode really is turning alot of people off. Will I stick around, yes will a buy MC nope. If I have my money right when founders was offered. I would have brought in. But as it is right now I glad. I did not have the money because I would have been pissed. So i can see why a founder would feel this way. This game is not ready for sunday after noon{non sport season} let alone primetime.

To the O P I have to say wait and see if it get better or Request a refund and comeback in 6 months. YOU will get better MC Hero mechs and have more fun after all the bugs are OUT MAYBE.

To other mackscorner videos is right. As it stand right know this game is a pew Pew pew COD clone with mechs.

Yeah, things are bad right now, I can agree to that; it seems to come and go in waves. As I'm sure you know, this has happened before, and chances are it'll happen again.

The situation we have with MWO is a unique one, in that it's openly accepting people's monies and letting them play it, but its maturity is not very aged, so there are lots of negative effects we're having that lead to poor player experiences, and possibly a bad taste in the mouth to new and/or inexperienced players.

A sad state of affairs; I really wish MWO was further along than it is...

[Grym]

For those posting "ECM ruined pugging" opinions. You ever think about people who dont run solid missle boats?

Pug matches have been awesome after this last patch. Mostly because streak cats dont dominate the field anymore.

[Force Majeure]

arden, on 09 December 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

The devs have been blinded by all the cool toys in the BT universe and don't seam to care that most of them are broken off the table.

Konner Duko, on 09 December 2012 - 01:13 PM, said:

the ecm has just made the game useless unless you are playing a alpha sticking build that is ment to run up close and blow the enemy out.

You guys are being unfair and nearsighted. ECM is the most exciting thing to happen to this game since Open Beta (and maybe even more). It's given this game more dept and complexity. There is a lot of room, still, to develop better tactics based around or to counter ECM, and it's not because you haven't found them yet that they don't exist. Give the game's "ecosystem" some time to adjust... you'll see.

[Despaxas]

I think there is some Irony that people are crying ECM boating runied LRM/Streak boating.

warp103, on 10 December 2012 - 01:04 PM, said:

To other mackscorner videos is right. As it stand right know this game is a pew Pew pew COD clone with mechs.

The problem is this whole video is the same qq that you are qqing about.
LRM, STREAKS were broken
Gauss wasn't finished.
ECM is a broken solution.

LRM are an indirect fire weapon, that needs to have a more realistic arc. So if there are buildings you can get cover, and if you are going to shoot them you have to be far enough away from cover to clear the hill builfing you are firing from.

Streaks were broken the rise of the streak cat I really have no idea what do to fix this in a way that doesnt make them unusable.

Gauss rifles wreen't finished, I know sure it seemed too good to be true you get almost AC20 damage with AC2 range, ammo dosent explode and no heat. It was a festivus miracle, and everyone ran out and mounted guass rifles every where they could fit.
Except the balance for Guass had always been that hte Ammo doesn't explode the gun does. So now when you have to worry about your miracle gun exploding you declare it unfair and you are quit. I got it I was mad when U/AC5 started jamming but I knew it was gonna happen and the Gauss rifle is no different it has pro's and now is has negatives. You say no one run's Guass anymore and that is not true.

As to ECM yes its off balance, as was UAC Jamming as was Artemis FCS, as was tons of other things. It works on small scale pretty well, They release it and Min/maxers get out and show its broken. I think that it should eliminate indirect fire LRM, but if you have direct LOS to target you can launch away, maybe with an increase lock time and easier lock breaks. Streaks work with ECM but function like regular SRMs. I think if you have LOS to a target you should be able to target them, maybe you dont get the damage readout or other target info. I like that ECM reduces target info sharing

too many people got used to playing in the boat of their choice and when anything changed that they scream bloody murder. the only game mode right now is capture and its starting to get old. Too often people just run the whole team to the others cap and it turns into a cap race or they collide in the middle and its one brawl.

These forums have had more people rage quitting than any other forum I have seen. People have been rage quitting since before the game was in friends and family beta.
There hasnt even been 1 patch allowed out post ecm. I know the beta tag doesn't excuse all teh problems. it does justify a little patience.

[Wun]

Aegis Kleais, on 10 December 2012 - 01:30 PM, said:

Yeah, things are bad right now, I can agree to that; it seems to come and go in waves. As I'm sure you know, this has happened before, and chances are it'll happen again.

The situation we have with MWO is a unique one, in that it's openly accepting people's monies and letting them play it, but its maturity is not very aged, so there are lots of negative effects we're having that lead to poor player experiences, and possibly a bad taste in the mouth to new and/or inexperienced players.

I agree with you, except about it being unique. There are MANY F2P games that claim to be in BETA for long periods of time (many over a year) while taking money. Even some big ones like Farmville had the beta tag up over a year while they were growing to the biggest game ever (SimSocial BETA overtook it in about 2 weeks last year).


Clearly they brought ECM in OP and they are going to have to nerf it somehow. Thats how they get the playerbase to overuse and abuse a new system so they can intelligently nerf it.

I think firing weapons breaking your ECM protection for a couple seconds would do the trick. Use it for stealth scouting and cover a retreat, not to make the entire enemy teams HUDs useless. Other options are to follow proper lore and let BAPs see through ECM.

Edited by Wun, 10 December 2012 - 03:18 PM.

[Greers]

I still love my LRM-Atlas DDC. 3 LRM15 (Artemis), 1 LLarser and 1 TAG. In PUGs I often get 400-1000 Damage, cause noone thinks about LRM anymore. It's not the old "stay back and fire"-game anymore. I go into the second line, TAG and kill AMS-less Mechs galore. If I have someone who carries TAG aswell all the better!

If someone like Macky from the video comes charging across that ridge he's toast. That's the NEW tactics, not the old one. Yes, Gauss can now explode, but so can my LRM Ammo (or AC-ammo). Yes, LRM need a more careful use. Yes, Streaks are no longer all powerful (I got 3 Cats BTW including an A1).

So what? Adapt, play, win.

In 8 vs 8 we usually have about 2 Assaults and 2 Scouts and 2-3 ECM at most. And we still win about 50%. And most important: it's FUN to win! Cause it's NOT easy! Cause we CAN beat those optimized drops. It's more of an acomplishment we feel than those Optimizers will ever feel when steamrolling us (if our tactics can't outsmart them).

[Joanna Conners]

Like Despaxas said, some patience is in order. It hasn't even been a full week and we're in beta. Provide reasonable, mature feedback and wait for results. It's really that simple.

Other frustrations (and new absurd ones) will fade as other game-types are introduced. The repetition of base capping is surely grinding on people's nerves.

However, there are still ways to improvise, adapt and overcome and consistent strategy you encounter. Last week I kept getting steamrolled in 8v8s. Now we're winning more than we're losing.

The game is far from balanced and completed, but it isn't nearly as broken as people make it out to be. There's a serious denial in many communities about players lacking skill. I think the only community I'm part of where people admit they suck is Halo; yet they still have fun. This is supposed to be a challenging game. When we've been finishing matches with 1v2 or 1v1 where everyone is on the edge of their seats, I'm inclined to think PGI is doing pretty damned well. That's how MechWarrior should be when people are of equal skill. Otherwise sometimes people will get steamrolled. Again, that's normal. Some people are better than you. It doesn't make the game broken. It means you've got room for improvement.

[SpookShow]

I believe the devs use a high tech device called a bitching meter to judge how big of a nerf something is going to get down the road. If you really want to speed up the ECM nerf write your posts in all caps, makes the meter count your post as a double.

and for your listening enjoyment...

Edited by SpookShow, 10 December 2012 - 03:28 PM.

[Mazgazine1]

I've been pugging, 4man and 8man and I play with/and against LRM boats that are still affective. The change to tag will really help, its to bad its not happening this week.

LRM boats just need to work a little harder, but they can still be a huge DPS factor for your team

I play with a guy that has a Atlas DDC with 3 lrm 15's and he does quite well.

[Talos Valcoran]

the problem is cature the red square, it has always been and it continues to be that way(with or withour ECM)... I hope for "team-deathmatch".

[luckyhobbit]

Ecm should be self only - no area of effect. And it should slow down weapon lock, not prevent it all together. As far as making you "invisible" to radar, perhaps reduce the range of it a bit. At present its far too powerful and is forcing players to buy a certain mech just because it can equip ecm. The devs really need to think this one through as it seems to be driving players away from the game...

[Strakha]

Aegis Kleais, on 10 December 2012 - 01:27 PM, said:

Yeah, well, pity that's all you took home from my point. Don't **** with my quotes; it's as bad as putting words in someone else's mouth. And if you think you can talk about how much I care about this game, you obviously don't know ****.

You either stick with the game, complaining or don't, or you don't play the game, and come back to it later, or don't. Not very many other variations other than those.

Well, don't go around telling people that they are not cut out to be beta testers. Besides, I didn't do it in a way that other people would think that was what you said. You must have at least half-expected that reaction when you posted.

The options are obvious, but it's worth mentioning that getting annoyed at the game has more point to it than getting annoyed with how people give their feedback on the forums. There's so much competition, and with the current state of the game, I'm worried that soon we won't have options anymore. May as well let people say what they want while they can.

[Aegis Kleais]

Strakha, on 11 December 2012 - 09:33 AM, said:

Well, don't go around telling people that they are not cut out to be beta testers. Besides, I didn't do it in a way that other people would think that was what you said. You must have at least half-expected that reaction when you posted.

The options are obvious, but it's worth mentioning that getting annoyed at the game has more point to it than getting annoyed with how people give their feedback on the forums. There's so much competition, and with the current state of the game, I'm worried that soon we won't have options anymore. May as well let people say what they want while they can.

Justify to yourself however you want, the forum reads it as if I said it, and I've had one too many instances where someone read what someone had modified in my quote and assumed I had said it. What you did might be a popular internet-culture practice, but it does nothing more than breeds confusion and misrepresents people. You could have quoted me as is and then made your point.

Thing is, if you're not cut out to deal with a beta and it's buggy nature, it's not the end of the world. The beta will get better, and there's no point in banging your head in a futile manner against a wall in hopes that will change things. Find a different game to bide your time, and then come back to the game at a later development stage, where it might be more palatable to your tastes.

Feedback is always encouraged and appreciated unless it's in the format that the vast majority of it is, ie "This game sucks! Fix it now" A pointless sentiment that provides nothing of use to the developers no does it explain what exactly the person is finding faulty in the game.

But whether you give 'feedback' like that or in a much more constructive and useful manner, the most power you have here is being heard, and opening/closing your wallet.

[Strakha]

Aegis Kleais, on 11 December 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

-cut-

If you were slightly more succinct I would. Please stop complaining about the way I quoted you - you can either get on your high horse or do it back to me - not both. Secondly, please stop telling people what betas are - having 5000+ posts does not make you lord of the betas. I don't believe anyone went into this thinking it would be bug free.

I didn't go into this thinking the project might fail though. Disappointing number of new users, and whenever they add new things to buy, it makes me believe that the continuation of the project is dependent on them getting revenue for it now (which is a problem if it's half-finished and barely playable). Hope I'm wrong, and I hope they're willing to sink a lot more money into this thing before they see a return (and they WILL if they do it right).

[Degalus]

Everytime something new comes in and need to be tested in this "BETA" all whiners crawls out and whining the hell out of it... Game die ! All broken ! u ruin the game! .... no time for test things out huh? I get boring ... of all the whiners. Sry for the aggresiv post but after: Gause cats OP! Streak Cats OP! LRM OP! Uac5 broken because of hard unjamming!! UAC5 broken because of easy unjamming! and the list goes on and on .... and now its ECM .... comon play and test it out give feedback and give a feedback ticked in a constructiv way and they will try to find a way to balance it.
I dont say anything vs constructiv feedback but whining only let me rage ...

[Aegis Kleais]

Strakha, on 11 December 2012 - 10:57 AM, said:

If you were slightly more succinct I would. Please stop complaining about the way I quoted you - you can either get on your high horse or do it back to me - not both. Secondly, please stop telling people what betas are - having 5000+ posts does not make you lord of the betas. I don't believe anyone went into this thinking it would be bug free.

I didn't go into this thinking the project might fail though. Disappointing number of new users, and whenever they add new things to buy, it makes me believe that the continuation of the project is dependent on them getting revenue for it now (which is a problem if it's half-finished and barely playable). Hope I'm wrong, and I hope they're willing to sink a lot more money into this thing before they see a return (and they WILL if they do it right).

Unless you can show me your IQ is too low for you to comprehend what I'm saying (and at this point, I'd take your word) DO NOT misquote me. You can omit text or use an ellipsis (...) but do NOT change what I've said. I don't care what other excuses you have lined up to justify it, if I did not say it, don't make it look as if I did.

And keep your inferiority complex to yourself. You are the FIRST PERSON (in this thread) to bring up as USELESS and ANCILLARY a point as my post count. For whatever inept reason, you somehow saw this number as a form of authority on the forums. Let me help you out here, a post count counts the number of posts the user has made. Surprise, surprise. That's ALL it does. Going off on the tangent where you pull out of your *** some belief that I've even REFERENCED it as of yet as some form of authority in my opinion shows a high degree of desperation on your side.

The Founder's program was a huge success and has solidified the development and continued interest of the program for a decent timeframe. The point is, there is a proper way to provide negative criticism that is both helpful to the progress of the game and the developer, and there is the wrong way. Many people see every complaint as a whine, and this shows a fear to both acknowledge and address valid issues.

[Elder Thorn]

no offense OP but... since 8vs8 is there, all i hear is so called 'elite players' or 'veterans' crying about losing matches to extreme tactics.

What? No more roflstomps with your unit? Maybe your unit isn't that good?
Don't get me wrong, i did read your OP but what did you expect?
People running arround in pairs brawling it out everywhere or teams using everything they can to win while staying together?