37 replies to this topic

[80Bit]

Right now with a 25% jam rate, this is a table of chances if you want to open up and try to double shoot with the Ultra AC/5. The percentage represents the overall chance you will have a jam if you try to take that many shots in a row. For example, if you try to doubleshoot 3 times in a row, you have a 57.81% chance that one of those 3 shots will cause a jam.

-25% jam chance per shot-
Shots / Overall Chance to Jam
1 / 25.00%
2 / 43.75%
3 / 57.81%
4 / 68.36%
5 / 76.27%
6 / 82.20%
7 / 86.65%
8 / 89.99%
9 / 92.49%
10 / 94.37%

So at 25% jam chance per shot, your odds of getting away with doing anything more than a 2 round burst, are not good.


I personally hope they tweak the rates. If the jam chance were changed to 10% the table would look like this:

-10% jam chance per shot-
Shots / Overall Jam Chance
1 / 10.00%
2 / 19.00%
3 / 27.10%
4 / 34.39%
5 / 40.95%
6 / 46.86%
7 / 52.17%
8 / 56.95%
9 / 61.26%
10 / 65.13%

At 10% you have a better than 50% chance of getting of 6 doubleshots without jamming. That's 60 damage (or 180 if you are running triple UAC/5s like me). I think that because of that 10% is to low. So how about:

-16% jam chance per shot-
Shot / Overall Jam Chance
1 / 16.00%
2 / 29.44%
3 / 40.73%
4 / 50.21%
5 / 58.18%
6 / 64.87%
7 / 70.49%
8 / 75.21%
9 / 79.18%
10 / 82.51%

This, I think, is the sweet spot for UAC/5. You have a good chance to put out a 3 round burst doubleshot, but if you go higher than that your are likely to jam. This would give you good burst damage but prevent you from constantly doubleshooting for overly powerful DPS.

[John MatriX82]

I think 25% jam happens also at the first time you trigger the gun.. sometimes it happens on all my 3 UAC's as soon as I click to trigger them (without having fired a single shot before).

[Scrawny Cowboy]

John MatriX82, on 09 December 2012 - 02:58 PM, said:

I think 25% jam happens also at the first time you trigger the gun.. sometimes it happens on all my 3 UAC's as soon as I click to trigger them (without having fired a single shot before).

I can confirm seeing this occur to an enemy mech. He stood there shaking his arms side to side, was rather amusing while I was leveling him.

[Snowcaller]

Tried a dakkaphract with uac5's, the jamming drove me nuts.
I do better with an ExtraFragile engine and bigger guns than with a weapon system that jams like that.

[80Bit]

Yeah I run three UAC/5s in my Muromets. As you can see from the chart, if I double shoot all three, I have over a 50% chance that at least one will jam. And that's exactly what happens in my experience. I pretty much never get more than 2 volleys out without a jam. And often I will have 2-3 jam up right away and then I am in a world of hurt.

I really hope the jam rate is reduced a little. You should be able to double shoot at least a little bit before you become a sitting duck.

[John MatriX82]

B3RZ3RK3R, on 09 December 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

I can confirm seeing this occur to an enemy mech. He stood there shaking his arms side to side, was rather amusing while I was leveling him.

Yep it's no fun at all when you turn a corner take aim to an unaware enemy, trigger them and get a nice "weapon jammed" popup on all the three guns at the same time. It's a little bit ridiculous, at least I should be able to fire 1 volley and then see all of them jamming.

Besides this, I however think they are quite balanced now, you can't be a total overkill because they jam right when you need them.

80Bit, on 09 December 2012 - 07:06 PM, said:

Yeah I run three UAC/5s in my Muromets. As you can see from the chart, if I double shoot all three, I have over a 50% chance that at least one will jam. And that's exactly what happens in my experience. I pretty much never get more than 2 volleys out without a jam. And often I will have 2-3 jam up right away and then I am in a world of hurt.

I really hope the jam rate is reduced a little. You should be able to double shoot at least a little bit before you become a sitting duck.

Yep, read the above, it would be fine if you could manually single shot them safely waiting their recycle time and leaving like how they behave now once you don't lift the trigger up. That's why I bring 3 Mlasers on my Muromets!

Edited by John MatriX82, 10 December 2012 - 05:14 AM.

[Ryebear]

AC/5 makes a poor primary weapon since without a proper fire mode select button it is realy hard to control jamming or not. When stacked though, they do tremendous damage. Like really really high damage! Most mechs expect they can afford to get hit much longer than they can that by the time the think to retreat or change plans it is already too late.

[Das Wudone]

in my experience after my 1st double shot it almost immediately jams. imo uac5 should not jam on the 1st tap shot but on the 2nd tap shot instead. also another thing, they should add some sort of jamming threshold like how turret weapons work in some 1st person shooters. of course make it so that u cant fire them forever even with chain firing 2-3 uacs.

[p00k]

80Bit, on 09 December 2012 - 02:08 PM, said:

This, I think, is the sweet spot for UAC/5. You have a good chance to put out a 3 round burst doubleshot, but if you go higher than that your are likely to jam. This would give you good burst damage but prevent you from constantly doubleshooting for overly powerful DPS.

ugh
the uac5 IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE DOUBLESHOT
for 1 more crit and 1 more ton, you're already getting faster ROF (which translates to 54% more DPS) and slightly longer range. worth it? TOTALLY.

the doubleshot is there as an extra bonus, so that in EMERGENCY SITUATIONS ONLY such as when one more shot means killing the enemy or blowing off a component before they can retaliate or dodge.

YOU'RE
NOT
SUPPOSED
TO
HAVE
A
GOOD
CHANCE
TO
DO
LOTS
OF
DOUBLESHOTS

yes, there is a bug, or maybe it's a product of lag, to where the game thinks you tried to doubleshot when you didn't. but besides that, if you just removed the doubleshot ability from the uac5 altogether IT'S STILL A PHENOMENAL WEAPON.

again, double tapping, even in bursts, IS NOT HOW THE UAC5 IS USED. the uac5 is not two upgraded ac5's with a chance of jamming crammed into one. it's an upgraded ac5 that, in a pinch, can deliver an extra shot when that last little bit will make a difference

[Rex Budman]

p00k, on 10 December 2012 - 08:10 PM, said:

ugh
the uac5 IS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE DOUBLESHOT
for 1 more crit and 1 more ton, you're already getting faster ROF (which translates to 54% more DPS) and slightly longer range. worth it? TOTALLY.

the doubleshot is there as an extra bonus, so that in EMERGENCY SITUATIONS ONLY such as when one more shot means killing the enemy or blowing off a component before they can retaliate or dodge.

YOU'RE
NOT
SUPPOSED
TO
HAVE
A
GOOD
CHANCE
TO
DO
LOTS
OF
DOUBLESHOTS

yes, there is a bug, or maybe it's a product of lag, to where the game thinks you tried to doubleshot when you didn't. but besides that, if you just removed the doubleshot ability from the uac5 altogether IT'S STILL A PHENOMENAL WEAPON.

again, double tapping, even in bursts, IS NOT HOW THE UAC5 IS USED. the uac5 is not two upgraded ac5's with a chance of jamming crammed into one. it's an upgraded ac5 that, in a pinch, can deliver an extra shot when that last little bit will make a difference

Wake up to yourself...

The RoF is a joke and has made the weapon unreliable. People want Jam chances decreased in order to gain reliability of the weapoin through single shots. But as you can see, the double fire mechanism is so tempremental it sometimes registers a double on a single click. Hence, it causes jams.

OP; To gain a better use of this weapon, RoF needs to be decreased. I would like to see jamming decreased as well, considering we do spend extra for this weapon on all fronts. Believe me, though, this weapon would do so much better with a decreased RoF.

[Apoc1138]

yeah, the biggest problem with the UAC5 is that it often double fires when you didn't actually ask it to
you can either create a macro that means that every time you single click it very definitely adds a 1.2s pause before it will do anything else (and have an unmacroed key for the same group so you can double shoot when you want to), or they could add a fire mode selector in game that would prevent it double shooting

the double shot does come in handy at point blank range (as the ilya that I took down in a few seconds last night can attest), but it going off when you never asked for it causing a jam is well annoying

[AJDux]

Rex Budman, on 10 December 2012 - 08:15 PM, said:

Wake up to yourself...

Er dude, you then went on to agree with p00k........ Lets not get personal and bitchy.

When considered in single shot mode and in context with the AC5 and AC10 the UAC5 is a beast. For an extra ton over the ac5 it shaves the recycle from 1.7 secs to 1.1 and adds a little extra range. That is 1 ton well worth spending imo.

The double shot would then mean its about the most powerful weapon in game DPS, they have dropped the ammo per ton for UAC5 over AC5 by about 20% fdrom memory which I think is good. If the jam rate were dropped too far then no-one will use the AC5 or AC10, it has to balance with the other weapons. So personally I think 25% jam rate on double tap is about right.

I agree though that the bug for double shooting when you only tapped fire is a pain, but thats all it is a bug, this is a BETA..... So im sure this will be resolved in coming weeks.

[Alexander 1978]

If I may, I'd like to throw some rather noobish questions in here.

How is the UAC/5 going to fire if you keep the button pressed? Or better how was it before the in posts mentioned "jam bug" showed up?

In a Atlas-D for example with lets say 2x UAC/5.
When I put them in one weapon group and on chainfire. Will they fire one after the other without jamming when I keep the fire button pressed or will they try to double fire every cycle and most likely jam after a few shots?

That would be nice to know and maybe even a workaround for the double-fire-bug. Just keep the button pressed a little bit longer then usual maybe then It does not count as a double tap.

Thx.

Alexander 1978

[bionicbadger]

They should make it like tabletop, where it has a 2.7% chance to jam on the first doubletap and the chance increases the more you fire. BUT it will stay jammed for the rest of the battle, then people would really have to decide if the chance of losing the gun is worth the extra 5 damge.

[Jaynestown]

You're encouraging people to look at it as if the chance to jam on shot 5 is related to whether you've jammed already on shot 4. It's not. It's 25% each time. So, as soon as you fire one of those shots, regardless of whether it jams or not, your probabilities go right out the window.

You could look at this in terms of rates of fire (not individual shots). The UAC fires about once a second (1.1) with the capacity to fire at twice that speed. Doing so has a 25% chance to jam per second, worst case. Firing slower than max capacity would still have the same chance to jam with each shot, but it would average out to a smaller jam rate. For instance, firing at about 150% speed, one double shot per two normal shots, averages out to about 13% chance to jam per second, and so on. The interesting thing here is that we know the jam duration (or someone does - I don't). So you should be able to line up jam duration alongside chance to jam per second and normal fire rate and figure out what the "optimal" rate to fire UAC's is for best average overall damage. I just did it out assuming a two second jam, and I get something like best damage at 160% fire rate.

The UAC balance is pretty good in my opinion. As Pook pointed out, it's a better weapon than the AC5 for +1 ton, +1 crit. I don't think that the chance to double-shot and jam (accidentally) should be removed. If you want reliability... go with the standard issue and stop complaining about it. Advice for all players, not directed at anyone in this thread in particular.

[beniliusbob]

The UAC/5 is disgustingly strong. I fire roughly every half second and usually get four shots before it jams. Boom!

And I don't boat so it's no big deal if it jams.

[Synchros]

It's probably not the perfekt thread but I'd like to throw a question in.

How ist the UAC5 unjammed?

[John MatriX82]

it seems you've never used it, it unjams by itself after a variable time, from two to 5" max I think

[Xenon Codex]

I admit I have very little experience with this weapon, all of it bad due to constant jamming. Is there a way to continuously fire so that it never double-shots except when you want it to, such as putting it in "chain fire" mode?

If not, then the 0.6s cooldown advantage over the standard AC/5 seems rather pointless.

[Stingz]

Fix the "First shot jammed" issue and I'm happy. It isn't right when UAC/ jams with no shots fired.