54 replies to this topic

[Felix]

Dasht e Lut, on 09 December 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

Hmmm... Let me see here... A laser, I have to aim. I have to hold it on my target for the duration of the beam in order to do damage to said target. I have to aim it where I want it to hit. And when I've fired it I have to then reaquire the target and aim the laser agian. Oh, and there's no gaurantee that I'll hit what I've aimed at...

A LRM: I have to lock up a target. If it's BVR then I need a teammate to lock that target or TAG that target and then I can fire and forget.

A streak I have to lock my own target! And then, when it's locked, I can hold down the mouse button and keep firing every time it cycles... The real challenge is locking the target in the first place, which really is no challenge at all. Once that's done...

And ballistic weapons? See lasers.

Learn some skills. Learn to play. Learn to shoot. Learn to use your eyes. Stop relying on the training wheels.

I do believe that there is a reason that no one, other than ECM nerfers (which are very few), are on this thread. I do believe that I'll follow suit.

Cheers!

Funny, you say the ones who want ECM brought to an acceptable level are few, yet in every poll I have seen they were around 60% of everyone who voted.

Oh noes you have to aim for a second while your lasers discharge? Poor you! So do LRM users, and their weapons take several seconds to reach a target and impact, enough time to give a (smart) enemy time to take cover or power down to make the missiles stop tracking.

Streak weapons need balancing, there is no doubt there, but the way to balance an overpowered weapon is not to introduce a more overpowered piece of crap to try to counter it.

And I never mentioned ballistics, they are the hardest of the three weapon systems to master.

And way to fail telling me to learn skill (because drooling on yourself while a 1.5 ton peice of equipment does all the work is skill right) and aim. I use a Yen Lo Wang more than I use a boat. But I am not stupid enough to think ECM is balanced even without a missile boat being my prime.

Edited by Felix, 09 December 2012 - 09:41 PM.

[SpiralRazor]

Sure nuff Felix..and i consistently get 500+ with ballistics.

Also,

poodles.

[bob1234567890]

SaJeel, on 09 December 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

OK so heres the thing yes ECM is outa wack right now, but before ssrms were outa wack, this is just how games work. Even if the game was 100% balanced people would still cry fowl and say one tactic reigns supreme, and yet in a few months that tactic would be pretty butt. Take Starcraft when people found zerg rush was the thing to do everyone hopped on it, it became the only way, but people found out how to beat it, and then MM became the thing, thats how good games work, every tactic can be taken countered. See the beta at the top of your screen, that means the devs are working on the game... that means the game isnt balanced. ECM will get toned down and as soon as it does people will latch onto something else and claim it to be the new king of MWO which it wont be at least not for long if the devs do their job well, which they have been doing, keep up the great work guys, dont let sarcasm or greifers get ya down!

I wish you could downvote, this isnt a strategy game. You drop in your mech and if you dont run that perfect counter which might not work then your dead. pilot skill only goes so far. Starcraft has a thing called micro working for it were useless units can even do above normal damage. PGI breaks more than it fixes every patch and although i am still here ALL of my 16 friends that i know in real life who played, arent, they play megamek and quite frankly i am truly happy i recalled my founder package, i have spent no money on this game because this game is broken and not ready for any form of retail and after all this lag BS and 8-man meta and no bug fixes i will not spend money on it. by the way i run plat in SC Toss FTW

[Dasht e Lut]

OK Felix. Gosh, you win.

I'll give it one more try, just as soon as I'm done wiping the drool off of my chin...

Ok. When I'm not noodling around in MWO, I'm flying the unfreindly skies in Falcon 4.0 BMS. I have a range of options when it comes to engaging an enemy fighter. The preferred method is the AIM-120, a BVR (that's "Beyond Visual Range") weapon that will kill an unfriendly. I lock up the target, fire it, and can turn away to engage another target. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this. The equivelant in MWO is the LRM.

Now let's get a little closer. In F4 I can dance in and knife fight with AIM-9s. These are heat-seakers, better known as Sidewinders. These don't require a lock but do require that you position your viper so that you get a solid tone. MWO equivilent would be the ssrm. Sort of...

When I really want to mix it up I'll go in with guns. Getting into a lead-pursuit situation takes finesse and skill but it can be done quite handily with practice and patience (in F4, as in a real F-16, youve got about 20 seconds of gun ammo). The MWO equivilent would be, well, ballistics.

All the while my ALQ (ECM pod) is pumpin' out music so that the enemy can't get a lock on me with radar and are forced to fight visually...

Why did I write all of this cr*p? Because I simply have one point: Fire and forget wepon systems, regardless of what you might say to defend them, take very little skill to use. There is nothing wrong with that. That is how they were designed. In a fight you don't want fair, you want dead. But do expect a counter.

Your responsibility is to learn how to kill me given the tools that you were provided. I shed no tears for those who simply can not, and will not, adapt.

Edited by Dasht e Lut, 09 December 2012 - 10:42 PM.

[Revorn]

Dasht e Lut, on 09 December 2012 - 09:14 PM, said:

A LRM: I have to lock up a target. If it's BVR then I need a teammate to lock that target or TAG that target and then I can fire and forget.

Learn some skills. Learn to play. Learn to shoot. Learn to use your eyes.

I see you know what you are talking about. Rofl. Learn to use your Brain.

[Kaijin]

Dasht e Lut, on 09 December 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

OK Felix. Gosh, you win.

I'll give it one more try, just as soon as I'm done wiping the drool off of my chin...

Ok. When I'm not noodling around in MWO, I'm playing the flight sim, Falcon 4.0 BMS. I have a range of options when it comes to engaging an enemy fighter. The preferred method is the AIM-120, a BVR (that's "Beyond Visual Range") weapon that will kill an unfriendly. I lock up the target, fire it, and can turn away to engage another target. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this. The equivelant in MWO is the LRM.

FTFY

Your AIM-120 is nothing like the LRM in MWO. You don't have to keep the target locked, manually, until the missile hits. LRMs are not fire-and-forget weapons in MWO.

Clearly you don't know what you're talking about.

Edited by Kaijin, 09 December 2012 - 11:47 PM.

[Chrome Dragon]

Dasht e Lut, on 09 December 2012 - 10:36 PM, said:

Your responsibility is to learn how to kill me given the tools that you were provided. I shed no tears for those who simply can not, and will not, adapt.

I was provided with four mecha that run ungodly hot and don't suit my playstyle - or my ping. If the autocannons I prefer have a .5 second hitch after trigger and before boolit, I'm going to miss by almost thirty degrees (read as: "a mile"). It used to be that if I was having a bad 'net night, I could just grab something with LRMs and help my team make things die. These days? Not so much. A ping of 250 means aggression gets you dead and caution is unsatisfying - good luck contributing.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Nice comeback Mack. You're brilliant. They'll never delete this one and you'll dodge most the flame too from the zill-IQ hypocrites plaguing our forum. This patch is great. Let's just stack those Medium Lasers and go pewpew at 300m. All is well. Strategy? Differing weapon roles? Who cares about any of that crude? Just stack those Medium Lasers. Go pewpew. All is well.

Edited by Bluten, 10 December 2012 - 01:10 AM.

[GalaxyBluestar]

SaJeel, on 09 December 2012 - 05:36 PM, said:

OK so heres the thing yes ECM is outa wack right now, but before ssrms were outa wack, this is just how games work. Even if the game was 100% balanced people would still cry fowl and say one tactic reigns supreme, and yet in a few months that tactic would be pretty butt. Take Starcraft when people found zerg rush was the thing to do everyone hopped on it, it became the only way, but people found out how to beat it, and then MM became the thing, thats how good games work, every tactic can be taken countered. See the beta at the top of your screen, that means the devs are working on the game... that means the game isnt balanced. ECM will get toned down and as soon as it does people will latch onto something else and claim it to be the new king of MWO which it wont be at least not for long if the devs do their job well, which they have been doing, keep up the great work guys, dont let sarcasm or greifers get ya down!

funny that the only tactics can be employed when you chat with your 8 man but pugs can't be bothered thinking and take easy street thus everyone's milking ssrms lagshielding and ecm for all its worth so there are no counters but itself. that's how it's broken pgi can't fix old problems quick enough for the narrow minded and then their attention is brought to easy weapons, ssrm and ecm, mack is entrely right no one thinks in pugs and now no one has to think. which is sad for the few of us who did and quiet happily help the plans of 4men premades in the thinking mans shooter. how lame that slogan sounds now.

oh btw mack revenge is sweet but you were harsh in that streak cat vid but hope my speach didn't put ya off none i heartly agree with everything you've said because unlike most the light pilots i've experieneced all this. the video is true as my accounts are what i saw happened. i don't just come up with a theory and lay it down as fact like the lrm's are good in dumb dumb fire people. yep this is the first time i've stopped playing this game in over 48 hours since open beta. that's how stale and predictable it {PUGGING} is.

just making sure you "i've got an ecm by my lrming side" people know that. unlike the other nights topic. couldn't beleive how many people missed that and mack corrected them what... 5 times!? with people like that nowonder everyone wanted brawls and nothing else. they have no brains to even read a post properly... 5 times over, {i haven't counted so if you post back 4 or 6 i'll know it was my own laziness ;P} for those who asked about 250-300 ping i'm in australia where ross nobe'ls respected, {he's near your way mack? accentand birthplace wise?} and not everyone is in america/canada with the good server. a free2play game needs to work globally to get the amount of customers to support and keep it going, pgi must be working on it cause with puggers down the brain-drain they'll be on bread and milk for a while.

a note to the lock on argument fanatics, i've pretty much always ran a laser boat cause lrm's were terrible to use on the assault chassis, you can't run with your target, you have to stay away cause you're a sitting duck for speedier mechs {CASE is the 1st compolsury equipment}. so you have to stay away. now the lock.... it takes for ever! so bypass it with artimus {2st peice of equipment now made compolsury equipment} so now i can get the lock on quicker and targt is lost on radar missle go smack into ground as homing is disaable once lock is broken argh! already this is not a easy click and forget cheesebuild. so i lock on again and pray it holds for the duration of the missles sluggish flight which half will be wasted into the hillside the target's {who has brains} is running towards for cover. all the while i'm a sitting duck to be flanked. Lrm's were terrible to use unless you can keep running {the light mechs and dodgy catapult vairent rear their heads again} and if you want to try and add that colour to the battlefield you need tag {3rd compulsory equipment} and bap! 4 items of equipment now to even stand a chance of making those missles hit unless i dumb dumb which is what srms are for and still worry about being flanked. which is more likely cause all the ecms on my team and gone to the brawl which leaves me the only redlight as well. lrm boats who already had it tough are now dead and the game's boring as hell for it.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 10 December 2012 - 01:30 AM.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Bluten, on 10 December 2012 - 01:04 AM, said:

Nice comeback Mack. You're brilliant. They'll never delete this one and you'll dodge most the flame too from the zill-IQ hypocrites plaguing our forum. This patch is great. Let's just stack those Medium Lasers and go pewpew at 300m. All is well. Strategy? Differing weapon roles? Who cares about any of that crude? Just stack those Medium Lasers. Go pewpew. All is well.

mack didn't need to think to make that comeback it's too damn obvious that this is what pugging is now, no need for radar everyone's using their eyes anyway. radar is alos redundant why do you need it you all are so clever using your mk1 eyeballs you all think it's cockpit decoration like you're bobblehead you brought. tactical gaming in MWO pugging is dead. my fingers bleed for the amount of forums i tried telling people how onesided everything was becoming, oh well it's their game they'll enjoy it's death brought about by them.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 10 December 2012 - 01:28 AM.

[Mack1]

Rex Budman, on 09 December 2012 - 05:38 PM, said:

You know what kills SSRM? Staying out of 270m range and hitting it with your choice of wep...

M8 it's pointless saying that, these people who love ECM are the console players, they are not very good at computer games, they can't figure out how to kill a Streak cat. These are the same kind that ruined WOW with their incessant whining everytime they got back stabbed off a rogue or feared by a Warlock. They can't adapt to Streak cats, LRM boats, all they can do is pew pew pew in the middle of the map without having to worry about missiles of any sort.

RIP MWO it will be coming out on PS2 and XBOX soon, pew pew guys pew pew!

[Bishop Steiner]

So why am I able to PUG successfully with my Founder's Catapult?
2 ALRM 15
4 Medium Lasers 3 Medium Lasers +TAG

.....and all's good in the hood. Lack of coordination is still the PUG downfall, not any single tool or tactic. If we were meant to Solo Hero the game, we wouldn't launch in 8 member teams (OK,when 2 of our team don't immediately get disco'd, or are AFK).

But LRMs do tend to bore me, and even without ECM I preferred Gauss and ACs. And Streak Cats? Still the build of choice for those who can't figure out proper aiming, so I could care less if their pilots nerd rage and quit. They were usually the same pilots who accused me of being an Aimbot for double Gaussing their face from across the map.

Aim and Tactics are OP, we must NERF them!


"excogita, accomoda, supera"

[Mack1]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 December 2012 - 05:12 AM, said:

So why am I able to PUG successfully with my Founder's Catapult?
2 ALRM 15
4 Medium Lasers 3 Medium Lasers +TAG

.....and all's good in the hood. Lack of coordination is still the PUG downfall, not any single tool or tactic. If we were meant to Solo Hero the game, we wouldn't launch in 8 member teams (OK,when 2 of our team don't immediately get disco'd, or are AFK).

But LRMs do tend to bore me, and even without ECM I preferred Gauss and ACs. And Streak Cats? Still the build of choice for those who can't figure out proper aiming, so I could care less if their pilots nerd rage and quit. They were usually the same pilots who accused me of being an Aimbot for double Gaussing their face from across the map.

Aim and Tactics are OP, we must NERF them!


"excogita, accomoda, supera"

TAG works at 400 mtrs, LRM's work from 1000 mtrs so how can TAG possibly help me? Oh yeah I can come to 400 mtrs and fire it, no thanks I would rather take Large Lasers which are a far better choice at 400 mtrs. Like I keep saying, Artillery in the game which by the devs own admission is a viable build has been totally broken in PUG matches.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Mack1, on 10 December 2012 - 05:39 AM, said:

TAG works at 400 mtrs, LRM's work from 1000 mtrs so how can TAG possibly help me? Oh yeah I can come to 400 mtrs and fire it, no thanks I would rather take Large Lasers which are a far better choice at 400 mtrs. Like I keep saying, Artillery in the game which by the devs own admission is a viable build has been totally broken in PUG matches.

I thought Tag was 450? That's what my fancy Excel sheet says. But again, I'm glad someone gets it. If you have to be at <450 for LRMs... then there's no point even using the LRMs. Their entire point was long range fire support/artillery. They were not Streaks.

[Revorn]

Its only stupid to say,

that, cutting down the effectiv shoting range, from ca 800m (1000-180) possible targeting Area to ca. 200m (450-180) possible target Area (witout the Help of a temamate). Is not be a over Nerf. And i dont mention the other functions of EMC to LRMs. Only the point of loosing 3/4 of your possible Range, should make clear that ECM is OP.

Or the other Way, how would you like it getting the Range of your Weapons quatered? And if u like to fire at more Range you have to get a Teammate with some Mirror.

Edited by Revorn, 10 December 2012 - 05:52 AM.

[Snuglninja]

Mack you sir are a strategic genius, with a tactical mind that rivals the great military minds of our generation such as Optimus Primeand, Serpentor,and Cobra Commander. It's best you go with ac 2 for the rumor is they have held the patch back to test the new force field option on ecm before release.

[GODzillaGSPB]

Mack1, on 10 December 2012 - 05:02 AM, said:

M8 it's pointless saying that, these people who love ECM are the console players, they are not very good at computer games, they can't figure out how to kill a Streak cat. These are the same kind that ruined WOW with their incessant whining everytime they got back stabbed off a rogue or feared by a Warlock. They can't adapt to Streak cats, LRM boats, all they can do is pew pew pew in the middle of the map without having to worry about missiles of any sort.

RIP MWO it will be coming out on PS2 and XBOX soon, pew pew guys pew pew!

And in another dimension, there is another Mack1 posting...

Mack1, on 10 December 2012 - 05:02 AM, said:

M8 it's pointless saying that, these people who love streaks are the console players, they are not very good at computer games, they can't figure out how to aim. These are the same kind that ruined WOW with their incessant whining everytime they got back stabbed off a rogue or feared by a Warlock. They can't adapt to ECM, all they can do is click click click at the edge of the map without having to worry about brawlers of any sort.

RIP MWO it will be coming out on PS2 and XBOX soon, click click guys click click!

You know, consoles and their bloody autoaim. It fits like a glove!

[Kraven Kor]

Rex Budman, on 09 December 2012 - 08:20 PM, said:

Lol, easy mode indeed! Your post confirms it.

This game is AC/Laser spam. No tactics.

IGN; "MWO, the thinking mans shooter"... What thought process goes into variable lag timing, leading, no lock on tactics and lag shield lights with ECM bubbles?

And this is not easy mode?

This game is easy mode! MW4 had more tactics!

Dear Mr. RnG, May I use this weapon please?

RnG say, Maybe! Try your luck

*sigh*

Before ECM, "Mechwarrior Online? More like Missile-warrior online! Streaks and LRMs are cheese! No tactics! Learn to aim!"

After ECM? "Mechwarrior Online, more like autocannon-laser-warrior online! AC's and Lasers are cheese! No tactics! Brawlbrawlpewpew!"

Morale of the story? ****, I don't even know at this point, I just keep shooting people in the face same as I did before (well, unless they shoot me in mine first.)

[nuttycide]

Ya know I played few games today with my missile boat, and I have to say no one expects it anymore. And heres a few things to the other missile boats out there, who want to fire from 800ms plus. Your best bet is actually to stay btw 300-500ms just for the fact to be able to hit your target quicker. If your beyond this range, then your not getting any real support by your team and your just making yourself a target for the enemy team. A smart missile boat during this time will use tag and speed to get into the right range and fire of their missiles. The other thing to remeber is you can fire your missiles at a certain location with out a lock, can be useful to those who think that lrm boats are dead. Just my 2 cents.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mack1, on 10 December 2012 - 05:39 AM, said:

TAG works at 400 mtrs, LRM's work from 1000 mtrs so how can TAG possibly help me? Oh yeah I can come to 400 mtrs and fire it, no thanks I would rather take Large Lasers which are a far better choice at 400 mtrs. Like I keep saying, Artillery in the game which by the devs own admission is a viable build has been totally broken in PUG matches.

Yeah, LRMS reach out to 1000. And only an S-Chmuc-K gets hit by them at that range. LRMs take so long to travel downrange, that I love it when some LRM ranger starts trying to spam me at 1000 meters. Gives me plenty of time to stick a hill or building in the way. I'll let you run your ammo dry, then pick your bones clean, ECM or no ECM.

I also would note that half the folks out there strip their AMS now, because "LRMS ARE USELESS". It's pretty entertaining how quickly I can strip a mech to pieces at 450meters (not 400) with my useless LRMs, ESPECIALLY since few have AMS now.


Plus, if I wanted to sit back at 1000 meters and SPAM, whats the point? I'm here to fight and have fun and look for a challenge, not point and click and let the brawlers do my aiming for me. talk about boring.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 10 December 2012 - 02:10 PM.