40 replies to this topic

[Aegis Kleais]

ISSUE: In a recent patch, PGI now restricts Cataphract lateral arm movement to prevent the arms from clipping into the model's right ballistic bore. This has effectively reduced the range of arm-mounted weapons (weapons that usually enjoy a wider turning radius) by approximately 50%.

How would you prefer PGI resolve this issue?

For me, I'd rather they just fix the 3D model and restore regular range. It seems to me like the nerf put in place was a band-aid over the fact that their model clipping simply needs to be addressed. Personally, I've spent a LOT of time and money developing my CTFs and am sad to see the current restriction. I understand that each chassis has it's own quirks and such, but other stats on the CTF are relatively poor to start off with (torso twist range, max armor in arms, etc.).

What do you guys think?

[Adrian Steel]

We all know there's only one way to do it right. But it's not like they're going to revisit the models. The Centurion is still a little too big for its boots....

[aspect]

If it hadn't been in the patch notes, there's no way in hell I would have ever noticed the clipping. Personally I don't care if it clips...obviously it's something to be avoided with the model design, but pretty low priority as something to be "fixed" imo.

[Aegis Kleais]

Adrian Steel, on 10 December 2012 - 07:40 AM, said:

We all know there's only one way to do it right. But it's not like they're going to revisit the models. The Centurion is still a little too big for its boots....

What makes it worse for me is that the CTF's aiming system is bugged, too. At times I'm in T-Rex mode, at others, I have normal (clipping range) and at others, my reticule goes floaty/loose and it has wild control issues (usually when torso twisted to the side) allowing my center reticule to move very far from the direction my mech is facing.

[Bloody Moon]

As they said that every mech will have unique twist i'd say they can start by giving the Phract a bit better one (also my playstyle would benefit from a bit more twist than restored arm movement ).

[Aegis Kleais]

aspect, on 10 December 2012 - 07:42 AM, said:

If it hadn't been in the patch notes, there's no way in hell I would have ever noticed the clipping. Personally I don't care if it clips...obviously it's something to be avoided with the model design, but pretty low priority as something to be "fixed" imo.

I agree that "clipping" issues are not THAT important right now (to be addressed, yes, but at a much later date). I think my big concern is how they chose to resolve the issue (by severely restricting lateral range on CTF pilots). I can no longer get inside shots on people I'm dueling and instead have to slow down and turn harder (making myself an easier target in doing so) to get even arm-mounted weapons on target for a shot.

[Adrian Steel]

Aegis Kleais, on 10 December 2012 - 07:42 AM, said:

What makes it worse for me is that the CTF's aiming system is bugged, too. At times I'm in T-Rex mode, at others, I have normal (clipping range) and at others, my reticule goes floaty/loose and it has wild control issues (usually when torso twisted to the side) allowing my center reticule to move very far from the direction my mech is facing.

I knew there was a good reason I stopped using them....

[Budor]

/bump

please add torso twist for an easy fix

Neonin, on 08 December 2012 - 04:31 PM, said:

Whipped up a chart to show the current horizontal firing arcs of all mechs, torso and arms. All data was taken from MWOWiki so all credit to them for having the information in the first place.

Note: This is the base statistics only, it does not include the bonus from efficiencies!



You can download a bigger version by clicking here.

Hope it's useful to someone!

Edited by Budor, 10 December 2012 - 07:47 AM.

[Orkimedes]

I don't think the centurion is correct - there is less arm angle swing to the elft than to the right as far as I can tell.

[MustrumRidcully]

Increasing the twist range sounds like the simplest and cheapest fix, and I see no real drawbacks to the solution otherwise. Do it.

[Aegis Kleais]

Increasing the twist range may be a quick cheap fix, but it may also allow the CTF to bring arm AND hull mounted weapons to bear on targets it duels with; which might be seen as an unfair advantage (usually, arm-mounted weapons enjoy the benefit of having a tighter 'inside' radius).

It would need to be either a turning increase, a torso twist speed increase and/or a torso twist range increase to compensate for the unforeseen restriction.

[CDLord HHGD]

Aegis Kleais, on 10 December 2012 - 07:38 AM, said:

ISSUE: In a recent patch, PGI now restricts Cataphract lateral arm movement to prevent the arms from clipping into the model's right ballistic bore. This has effectively reduced the range of arm-mounted weapons (weapons that usually enjoy a wider turning radius) by approximately 50%.

How would you prefer PGI resolve this issue?

For me, I'd rather they just fix the 3D model and restore regular range. It seems to me like the nerf put in place was a band-aid over the fact that their model clipping simply needs to be addressed. Personally, I've spent a LOT of time and money developing my CTFs and am sad to see the current restriction. I understand that each chassis has it's own quirks and such, but other stats on the CTF are relatively poor to start off with (torso twist range, max armor in arms, etc.).

What do you guys think?

In the Lore and specifically stated on the Orion description in the 3025 book, the arm is either restricted OR pilots have to be careful not to damage the barrel in the torso. By restricting the movement, I believe PGI has accurately handled the "care" pilots need to take.

Having said that, when that weapon is destroyed (but torso remains relatively in tact), full movement should be restored (to reflects the pilot no longer taking "care"). Not sure if this staged approach is feasible though. Barring that, I believe the restriction is warranted.

[Aegis Kleais]

cdlord, on 10 December 2012 - 08:11 AM, said:

In the Lore and specifically stated on the Orion description in the 3025 book, the arm is either restricted OR pilots have to be careful not to damage the barrel in the torso. By restricting the movement, I believe PGI has accurately handled the "care" pilots need to take.

Having said that, when that weapon is destroyed (but torso remains relatively in tact), full movement should be restored (to reflects the pilot no longer taking "care"). Not sure if this staged approach is feasible though. Barring that, I believe the restriction is warranted.

A unique view of the situation. I have to admit, having waited SO LONG for a good Heavy like the CTF was, I am a bit aggravated that this nerf was placed onto the Mech AFTER I spent so much time and money at developing them. On one side, I agree that each chassis has its pros and cons, it gives them character; but this was kind of 'thrown' onto CTF players out of the blue (and over a poorly designed model, it seems), so hopefully not sounding biased, I can see why many CTF pilots are frustrated by the current 'solution'.

[Zyllos]

I think the CTF is fine. It does have big arms.

But the CN9 is what I absolutely feel is way off. It is MUCH too wide.

Both mechs are some of my primary mechs I pilot.

Edited by Zyllos, 10 December 2012 - 08:18 AM.

[Apoc1138]

and what if you don't have anything mounted in the torso ballistic mount ?

[Roughneck45]

Maybe just make their arms move up a little bit when they are firing on a sharp angle across the front of your mech, so the weapon is angled that it wont clip the model. Like it looks when a guy has 2 pistols in an action movie or something lol

[Kraven Kor]

Eh, I think it is fair that the current optimum mech for "Autocannon Death" has a bit of a problem shooting to its flanks.

The Cataphract is capable of brutal amounts of damage. Let it have a drawback.

I still do fine with them.

Note: It took me a few minutes to get "Tyronnosaurus Mechs" and that is too funny.

[Neonin]

Apoc1138, on 10 December 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

and what if you don't have anything mounted in the torso ballistic mount ?

This. My CTF-1X runs with no ballistic weapons, yet I still have a honking great gun barrel sticking out of my mech that doesn't exist. To have my arm firing arc nerfed for purely cosmetic reasons was annoying enough, to have it nerfed for cosmetic reasons owing to the fact the "skin" of a mech doesn't change based on what's actually equipped is just plain irritating.

If they want to come out and say it was nerfed for balance reasons, fine. I might not agree, but it's a valid viewpoint.

Also: Something I made got quoted in someone's post! I feel special

[Aegis Kleais]

Zyllos, on 10 December 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

I think the CTF is fine. It does have big arms.

But the CN9 is what I absolutely feel is way off. It is MUCH too wide.

Both mechs are some of my primary mechs I pilot.

Kinda funny to show you the diversity of people's opinions out there; the Centurion (as shown in it's concept art), to me, looked too much like a Gundamn (very thin/lanky, as if it had no weight that the other Mechs and their designs seemed to bring to the table) When I saw its wider version in the game I thought "now THAT looks like it has some weight to it! It looks like it matches the style of the other Mechs". But I guess, like art, whether someone likes a design or not is kind of subjective. There's no right or wrong, we all like things differently.

Apoc1138, on 10 December 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

and what if you don't have anything mounted in the torso ballistic mount ?

I hear ya. My CTF-3D and CTF-1X have no ballistic weapon at all, so realistically, the model shouldn't have a protruding bore that would clip, restoring my arm range. If we were to add 'realism' as to why he is in 'rex' mode right now, it would not suffice for those who chose not to equip such a weapon into that hardpoint. Good point.

Kraven Kor, on 10 December 2012 - 08:30 AM, said:

Note: It took me a few minutes to get "Tyronnosaurus Mechs" and that is too funny.

Well, even if PGI does keep the chassis with it's restriction, they need to fix the aiming system bug (where it goes from 'rex' mode to normal to loose) cause that seems to be unintentional and very disorienting when aiming.

I need to take a FRAPs session to show it to PGI because they've yet to actually add this as a 'Known Bug' to the current build.

[aspect]

Aegis Kleais, on 10 December 2012 - 07:45 AM, said:

I agree that "clipping" issues are not THAT important right now (to be addressed, yes, but at a much later date). I think my big concern is how they chose to resolve the issue (by severely restricting lateral range on CTF pilots). I can no longer get inside shots on people I'm dueling and instead have to slow down and turn harder (making myself an easier target in doing so) to get even arm-mounted weapons on target for a shot.

Agreed. I voted for just letting it clip...would prefer the model people were working on new mechs instead of fiddling with the current ones.