66 replies to this topic

[Namwons]

Why Trial Mechs Suck:
1. They are built around a 10s time scale.
2. Under sinked meant for 10s weapons.
3. They dont have any modules
4. Under Armored
5. Inefficient Loadouts (case w/XL, ammo locations ect.)
6. Generalized weapon Loadouts.
7. Inefficient mech builds (if all/most crits/tons arent used up, your doing it wrong)

THE biggest problem is that weapon recylces are too high which tax the heat system. Trial mechs in their default loadouts (meant for 10s intervals) would be more competitive with customs if weapon recycles were closer to 10, and not 3.

Edited by Namwons, 10 December 2012 - 02:10 PM.

[Taryys]

Agreed. The trial and new user experience needs to be fixed.

Please see my thread-which-shall-not-be-named (which is in my sig) and sign it/comment.

[Sevaradan]

Never gonna sign it Taryys

[Perrucho]

Zygwen, on 10 December 2012 - 01:54 PM, said:

I played a few rounds in trial mechs last night to switch things up. Didn't have any problems getting kills.

Yes. I get kills with the trials too. How long have you been playing mech games, and how long have you been playing MW games? How long have you been playing this beta?

I know two friends of mine refuse to grind this **** and by extnsion, refuse to sink any money on a "crappy game you can't do anything in". Both friends are mech enthusiasts; they just don't see the point on having to grind some ten hours to buy ONE mech, that may or may not be their style; only for then have to grind an additional 6 to ten hours to get it up to pace; and then find out they don't like the game at all.

Another one just asked me to tell him when they officially launch the finished version, another one asked me to update him on my findings; so he's basically letting me "suffer" for him. He liked the graphics, disliked the gameplay. Having to endure crappy mechs that go down in 2 seconds vs owned mechs doesn't help to interest him much in grinding.

[elsie]

OK. Trial mechs are stock. The trial Jenner D is the same build as you'd get if you bought a Jenner D with cbills (or MC for that matter). So basically all stock mechs are garbage is what I hear being said.

So would the alternative be the same trial mechanism, but give make them the most cheezed out, min-maxed, munchkined builds that can possibly be put in? You know what will happen? The exact same thing that happens now. They will run out, willy-nilly, get their little (or big - they'll probably gravitate to the assaults - bigger is better, right?) patooties blown off, and ragequit because they think they should have been L33T U83Rmensch.

Give them a free mech and some cbills? They'll just either buy the most expensive mech they can find, or they'll get one, make the worst build possible, play a couple of matches, then QQ on the forums about how they alpha'd 4 PPCs on their HBK and shut down, or they (it's never 'their team') won the match and lost money because of all the expensive fancy goodies are also expensive to R&R.

Ignoring the proported 'business model' that everyone thinks PGI is espousing (make it suck enough and they'll spend money on a real mech - first year business students know that that is a bad plan), the current trial mech system is one of the better alternatives. In the process of grinding up the cbills for a 'real mech' (which will still be stock because they can't afford the upgrades yet), they will hopefully learn how to use their mech systems, learn how to operate in teams (somewhat), learn what is successful and what isn't, meet some interesting people and maybe become decent pilots. If you can be successful in a trial mech, then you're going to kick butt in a customized one - and you'll know how to customize it well.

The only thing I would really change would be to reverse the order of rewards; minimal attendance, ie win/loss, and maximizing actual participation - spotting, damage, kill assists, capture assist, etc.


tl;dr - then turn off the TV, get a book and discover what an attention span is


elsie

Just thought I'd add a view from a lore perspective. Let's say you join a merc company or house. You think they're going to give you a mech of your very own and pay for your favorite build? Nope, they'll assign you into whatever they can afford to loose, or a standard company/house build until you can prove that you deserve and can handle better. The only way you would start off different is if you brought your own mech and enough of your own money to pay for any customizations.

Pretty much equates to trial mechs and MC as far as I can see. I'm not one to let logic stand in my way either, but I'm not afraid to use it as a clue-by-four on occasion.


e

Edited by elsie, 10 December 2012 - 02:16 PM.

[Taryys]

Agreed... my thread... please!!!

elsie, on 10 December 2012 - 02:08 PM, said:

So would the alternative be the same trial mechanism, but give make them the most cheezed out, min-maxed, munchkined builds that can possibly be put in? You know what will happen? The exact same thing that happens now. They will run out, willy-nilly, get their little (or big - they'll probably gravitate to the assaults - bigger is better, right?) patooties blown off, and ragequit because they think they should have been L33T U83Rmensch.

Give them a free mech and some cbills? They'll just either buy the most expensive mech they can find, or they'll get one, make the worst build possible, play a couple of matches, then QQ on the forums about how they alpha'd 4 PPCs on their HBK and shut down, or they (it's never 'their team') won the match and lost money because of all the expensive fancy goodies are also expensive to R&R.

The only thing I would really change would be to reverse the order of rewards; minimal attendance, ie win/loss, and maximizing actual participation - spotting, damage, kill assists, capture assist, etc.

I am watching you mister!!!

Sevaradan, on 10 December 2012 - 02:08 PM, said:

Never gonna sign it Taryys

[Inviticus]

If I didn't love Battletch so much, I wouldn't have stuck around beyond my first 10 matches and I certainly wouldn't have put any money into this game. I don't see the harm in giving new players 1 or 2 free mechs that allows them access to all of the customizations. These free mechs don't have to be anything special; maybe just a Light and/or a Medium. A freebie that the new player could actually own and modify would certainly do a better job to retain players and get them spending more money.

Edited by Inviticus, 10 December 2012 - 02:19 PM.

[elsie]

Taryys, on 10 December 2012 - 02:11 PM, said:

Agreed... my thread... please!!! I am watching you mister!!!

I wouldn't watch too close. You might see something that cannot be unseen.


elsie

[Taryys]

Not a good idea and this is why (from my thread-which-shall-not-be-named):

Quote

Do Not.... give people a free mech: We have the trial mechs and they work OK. When combined with my ideas below, trial mechs will be just fine. Giving people a free mech right out of the gate avoids the free 2 play grind which is needed in a free to play game. If people pick a mech that they have not piloted yet, because they think looks great for them and then find out it does not, then que QQ'ing and thread rage.

DO NOT give people a free light mech either, light mechs are the hardest to pilot and the quickest to get themselves into trouble. Fast moving little deathcans that gets newbs killed quicker than anything. Que QQ'ing and thread rage. It can take a decent pilot to not die in a light mech.

Inviticus, on 10 December 2012 - 02:18 PM, said:

If I didn't love Battletch so much, I wouldn't have stuck around beyond my first 10 matches and I certainly wouldn't have put any money into this game. I don't see the harm in giving new players 1 or 2 free mechs that allows them access to all of the customizations. These free mechs don't have to be anything special; maybe just a Light and/or a Medium. A freebie that the new player could actually own and modify would certainly retain players and get them spending more money.

[Inviticus]

elsie, on 10 December 2012 - 02:08 PM, said:

OK. Trial mechs are stock. The trial Jenner D is the same build as you'd get if you bought a Jenner D with cbills (or MC for that matter). So basically all stock mechs are garbage is what I hear being said.

So would the alternative be the same trial mechanism, but give make them the most cheezed out, min-maxed, munchkined builds that can possibly be put in? You know what will happen? The exact same thing that happens now. They will run out, willy-nilly, get their little (or big - they'll probably gravitate to the assaults - bigger is better, right?) patooties blown off, and ragequit because they think they should have been L33T U83Rmensch.

Give them a free mech and some cbills? They'll just either buy the most expensive mech they can find, or they'll get one, make the worst build possible, play a couple of matches, then QQ on the forums about how they alpha'd 4 PPCs on their HBK and shut down, or they (it's never 'their team') won the match and lost money because of all the expensive fancy goodies are also expensive to R&R.

Ignoring the proported 'business model' that everyone thinks PGI is espousing (make it suck enough and they'll spend money on a real mech - first year business students know that that is a bad plan), the current trial mech system is one of the better alternatives. In the process of grinding up the cbills for a 'real mech' (which will still be stock because they can't afford the upgrades yet), they will hopefully learn how to use their mech systems, learn how to operate in teams (somewhat), learn what is successful and what isn't, meet some interesting people and maybe become decent pilots. If you can be successful in a trial mech, then you're going to kick butt in a customized one - and you'll know how to customize it well.

The only thing I would really change would be to reverse the order of rewards; minimal attendance, ie win/loss, and maximizing actual participation - spotting, damage, kill assists, capture assist, etc.


tl;dr - then turn off the TV, get a book and discover what an attention span is


elsie

Just thought I'd add a view from a lore perspective. Let's say you join a merc company or house. You think they're going to give you a mech of your very own and pay for your favorite build? Nope, they'll assign you into whatever they can afford to loose, or a standard company/house build until you can prove that you deserve and can handle better. The only way you would start off different is if you brought your own mech and enough of your own money to pay for any customizations.

Pretty much equates to trial mechs and MC as far as I can see. I'm not one to let logic stand in my way either, but I'm not afraid to use it as a clue-by-four on occasion.


e

I don't think you will retain customers and get them to spend money on a product they are frustrated with. I think that the best solution would be to just give those players a standard free mech. It could be the same mech for everyone and doesn;t need to be anything special. The only difference is that they would be able to customize the thing and have full access to the MechLab by default.

If I as a consumer am actually enjoying the product, I will put more money into it. Catching flys with honey and all that.

[Taryys]

This is a bad idea for the above mentioned reasons.
Fixing the trial grind and new user experience process is the answer and not giving they mechs or CBills.

Inviticus, on 10 December 2012 - 02:24 PM, said:

I don't think you will retain customers and get them to spend money on a product they are frustrated with. I think that the best solution would be to just give those players a standard free mech. It could be the same mech for everyone and doesn;t need to be anything special. The only difference is that they would be able to customize the thing and have full access to the MechLab by default.

If I as a consumer am actually enjoying the product, I will put more money into it. Catching flys with honey and all that.

[Namwons]

I think new players should get 10M Cbills sign on bonus. Enough to get 1 big mech, up to 100t Atlas if they choose, but not the heaviest tech 2 mechs. They would have very little for customization, repairs or a second mech after this though. Or they could buy a few lighter mechs or customize 1 or 2 lighter mechs. I think 10M is the perfect amount for a new player to start with. I also think our economy (match rewards) could use another 0 in there. Doesnt make sense to me that my 20M custom Atlas only cost 100k to repair/rearm.

Edited by Namwons, 10 December 2012 - 02:35 PM.

[Zygwen]

I managed to convince my brother to play MWO. He's had no prior experience with MW and managed to buy a commando of the money he earned with trial mechs. Now he has a more expensive mech roster than I do.

The problem with making trial mechs too good is that it removed the insentive to buy and customize your own. Especially when some of them 10 or 20 million c-bills after modifications. Some of us just don't have that much spare C-Bills lying around. I probably would never have tried an AWS-9M if it wasn't currently a trial mech.

[Inviticus]

Taryys, on 10 December 2012 - 02:26 PM, said:

This is a bad idea for the above mentioned reasons.
Fixing the trial grind and new user experience process is the answer and not giving they mechs or CBills.

If you sell a product based on certain features (MechLab is 1/2 the game according to the devs), then you want new players to experience them. A single free mech isn't going to impact profits in any worse way than the trial mechs already do. In fact, if you allow new players to experience the cusomization portion of the game right off the bat, you are more likely to reduce the new player frustration and reduce the "time to fun" situation by putting more power into their hands by way of customizing their loadouts.

Games like this don't have a lot of time to hook newbies. If their first 2 days are frustration filled slogs with constant overheating due to poor efficiency of the trial mechs, do you think a lot of those players will bother sticking around and supporting the game with MC purchases? I doubt it. This is why 1 or 2 free mechs with full customization is a much better solution than trial mechs or some other system where the player doesn't actually "own" their mech.

[FrostPaw]

I'd like to see a first win bonus for all trial mechs every day. It would encourage players to use all the trial mechs daily and thus would increase their experience of how to operate the various mech classes and get some experience with all the weapons. Note I said the first win, not the first game.

I'd also like to see trial mechs rotate more often, once every few weeks is too long, once every 24hours is more interesting.

[CRF Hawkeye]

Abrahms, on 10 December 2012 - 12:48 PM, said:

Failed game design. They think bad trial mechs = you buy their mechs.

you will,.. or some of us (me).
it's the future,.. free-to-play,.. you get onboard for free but if you REALY wanna play,.. you godda pay!

to frost: thought trail-mech's don't earn xp?

Edited by CRF Hawkeye, 10 December 2012 - 02:55 PM.

[Taryys]

Once a week should be plenty.
If people get a mech they like for a trial then they could use it for the week.
if they changed too often, new players could not get used to playing any given mech at all, and will have to learn a different mech each day and that would not be productive.

FrostPaw, on 10 December 2012 - 02:44 PM, said:

I'd also like to see trial mechs rotate more often, once every few weeks is too long, once every 24hours is more interesting.

Mech lab access?? Agreed. See my thread, please.

Inviticus, on 10 December 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:

If you sell a product based on certain features (MechLab is 1/2 the game according to the devs), then you want new players to experience them. A single free mech isn't going to impact profits in any worse way than the trial mechs already do. In fact, if you allow new players to experience the cusomization portion of the game right off the bat, you are more likely to reduce the new player frustration and reduce the "time to fun" situation by putting more power into their hands by way of customizing their loadouts.

No free money. See my thread.

Namwons, on 10 December 2012 - 02:30 PM, said:

I think new players should get 10M Cbills sign on bonus.

[Sprouticus]

New User Experience update coming soon (as soon as 12/18 if we are lucky). Even better New User Experience coming not quite as soon. (Feb maybe?)


http://mwomercs.com/...ember-4th-2012/

[Lefty Lucy]

Sprouticus, on 10 December 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

New User Experience update coming soon (as soon as 12/18 if we are lucky). Even better New User Experience coming not quite as soon. (Feb maybe?)


http://mwomercs.com/...ember-4th-2012/

Of course they've given us zero details as to what that will be. I don't blame them, actually, considering how much we (the forum-goers) flip out every time they change something.

[Goldhawk]

All who say that the trial mechs are terrible are entitled to their own opinions, but it is my opinion that this set of trial mechs is adequate. Let's go up the list shall we?

Jenner: Yes, it has 4 medium lasers and SRM 4. If we were in the Inner Sphere any whining about getting this mech, you would get you Dispossessed. Ugly duck does not manage heat well. Why? Perhaps firing all 4 Mediums into someone is not good for sustained fire no? You over heat and shut down, then some Atlas drops a Gauss shot into your leg or cockpit. I have run the Jenner, and through trial and error, I.E., learning how to run it, only use 2 lasers at a time and if you want to tie in the SRM 4, do so sparingly. Dip into the action, run away and cool off, that's how to play with this.

Awesome: This is one of the best Awesomes that I have piloted after the update. The PPCs rip through armor, the Streaks are sexy, and the medium pulse laser and small will fire while the other weapons are recharging/reloading. Get over the fact that it has your Aunts hips and the width of an Atlas. This mech decimates, at Medium to Long range. When you get into slugging matches with this, try to stay on the outskirts, otherwise, you will get flanked and someone will throw SRMS into your back.

Laserback (I mean Hunchback): I can't deny it, this big boy is a heat hog. Stop attempting to core mechs with multiple grouped laser shots. There have been countless forum posts about chain firing weapons, use them. You can maybe fire once or twice with your grouped lasers, but you are a support mech, and you don't need to be sticking your right torso where it belongs.....Like near the barrel of my LBX cannon...... Oh another thing, when fleeing the battlefield because you did not manage your heat correctly and are runnin back to Ma's skirts, we are ripping your back armor to scrap metal. Medium ranger brawler, just watch out for the mech that stumbles into your line of vision and give him a light show.

Capahrat: I can't spell this thing at all. What ever, you know what I mean, It's a hodgepoge mech that often was called "Frankenstein", by the Federated COmmonwealth troopers. This guy doesn't know what to do. You got a PPC, an Ac/10, and maybe 2-3 medium lasers. I'm forgetting. It's not bad. The heat is decent for that mech, but the only issue I have is the lack of A/C ammo. The armor is maxed on it for what I can recall, and the mech moves at a good clip, stay close to long range, if people move in on you, give them a blast from your A/C. Only flaw with this mech is all the good stuff is in the right side torso. My recommendation is to use that AC quick so it doesn't explode on you.

In conclusion, the trial mechs are not hard to use, but some care must be executed when piloting them. I'm regretful that there is not a better write up on the Mechwarrior/Battletech universe. Let me break it down for the various Sci-Fi people that get into mechwarrior and have issues....

1. THIS IS NOT ARMORED CORE. The mechs in this weigh 20-100 tons, the cannot move that fast unless you sink serious money into them. Also, the pilot may be wired into the mech, but they have not perfected jumpjet technology to the expertise of Armored Core. If you don't like the game, go back to Armored Core V.

2. THIS IS NOT GUNDAM Wing/Destinity/00/ Etc.. See previous reference. Also the gundams weigh like 7-20 tons. Atlas would MURDER Heavyarms. FYI

3. As much as I wish, THIS IS NOT BIG O: I had to say it. I would love to pin down a Jenner and just punish the hell out of it....

http://youtu.be/GlOoIMd9524

4. If you are coming from Starwars...Well, welcome. No Jedi mind tricks on Hunchback pilots.... Wait, that is the Awesome I was looking for....

5. Star Trek... Well, Live long and Kill much.

That's all I got for now, go ahead and burn me, I GOT A/C AND DOUBLE HEATSINKS!