85 replies to this topic

[Zylo]

SmoothCriminal, on 10 December 2012 - 05:32 PM, said:

+1 to everything you've argued. The attitude around here is a bit premade friendly because hey, casual gamers wont ever visit forums like these.

The premade command tools are good, but they need more authority, and more of a reward strategy. In battlefield 3 you gain increased xp for following an order, so i dont see why such a process shouldnt be implemented/exacerbated here. Say 10xp/200cbills for co-ordinates, focus fire and the rest. Otherwise PUGs won't listen.

The more I play this game the more i feel like im being pushed towards premade groups (which I like the sound of, but not sure if I can endure the rage/ridicule my housemates will enforce should i start talking to my television...)

I think the majority of pre-made teams don't even bother with the command interface in game. It takes far more time to bring up the window and click on the map than it does to issue commands over Teamspeak. The reward for good teamwork is a far better win rate.

In random games without a group this game really needs to follow the WoT example with simple hotkey commands that flash around your map marker (or your target's marker) for commands like "Follow me, Need help!, Attack my target".

[IIIuminaughty]

Lefty Lucy bored.

[Zylo]

Korm, on 10 December 2012 - 05:39 PM, said:

Allowing synch drops is the cancer that is killing PUGS. 4 mans are hard to beat, yet sometimes you can do it (like if you get dropped with decent players). But when you get dropped against a full premade then there's nothing you can do except alt+f4

The solution is allowing only a single group per side if 3 or 4 players, or at most 2 groups of 2 on a side.

[Lefty Lucy]

StrataDragoon, on 10 December 2012 - 05:43 PM, said:

Lefty Lucy bored.

Wat?

[Zylo]

Gaeb, on 10 December 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

I do wish the devs would tweak this. They're just feeding Cbills to cowards. Potential fix; make it so that if you drop as a 4man you get a random 0-60 seconds added to your matchmaker time.

This really isn't a fix at all though as you can still end up with 2x 4-player teams on the same side.

I was running some small groups last week with 3 other Hell's Ponies members during off-peak times and got paired up in 2 different matches with another pre-made group from Black Wolves. We did nothing to abuse the system yet we ended up on the same side for a fast win probably against 8 random players due to a broken matchmaker system.

[Major Derps]

Pugging still has bugs, but the biggest issue is the people. It seems like the majority of 4 man premades think that because they are grouped, they are better than those who aren't and will not cooperate nor listen to requests, target callouts, or general communication (generalisation, I know. But made from experience). And then there are pugs who will do the same because...well I don't know why...they just seem oblivious as to what's going on. However, I have had a few good all pug teams. Where everyone listened to each other and worked together, and I really enjoyed it...mostly because we steamrolled the opposition, but still made the game more enjoyable.

[Zylo]

Smokey Mcpot, on 10 December 2012 - 06:00 PM, said:

Pugging still has bugs, but the biggest issue is the people. It seems like the majority of 4 man premades think that because they are grouped, they are better than those who aren't and will not cooperate nor listen to requests, target callouts, or general communication (generalisation, I know. But made from experience). And then there are pugs who will do the same because...well I don't know why...they just seem oblivious as to what's going on. However, I have had a few good all pug teams. Where everyone listened to each other and worked together, and I really enjoyed it...mostly because we steamrolled the opposition, but still made the game more enjoyable.

I think it's more that the pre-made group members are all in Teamspeak or some other program and are just bad about watching chat. I tend to get like this at times and end up not watching chat at all. Usually I let the rest of the team know where my group is going but occasionally I will forget.

[Delvish]

Um, no offense, but the problem isn't PUGing.



And that's in trial mechs.

Why is it people can't gauge their own skill level? It's not the pre-made boogyman that's killing you.

You (as well as a lot of people) need elo based matchmaking where you aren't going to be facing people with a lot more experience and skill at the game.

Edited by Delvish, 10 December 2012 - 06:17 PM.

[Dirus Nigh]

If having voice chat is so important to the game, why does the idea of an integrated voice system get shouted down? Would this not go along way to fix the pug/premade "problem"? If this were in the game then the only thing holding back a pug group from having a good game is the will to cooperate.

Just in case some one will respond with 'COD 12 year old jerks', let me remind you about a mute button. Battlefield 2 and 2142 had it, why cant MWO?

Edited by Dirus Nigh, 10 December 2012 - 06:25 PM.

[xRaeder]

Server browsers...

[Sevaradan]

Dirus Nigh, on 10 December 2012 - 06:25 PM, said:

If having voice chat is so important to the game, why does the idea of an integrated voice system get shouted down? Would this not go along way to fix the pug/premade "problem"? If this were in the game then the only thing holding back a pug group from having a good game is the will to cooperate.

Just in case some one will respond with 'COD 12 year old jerks', let me remind you about a mute button. Battlefield 2 and 2142 had it, why cant MWO?

because no one will use the built in because most likely it will suck, and if im farming pugs for cbills in 4vpugs i wont waste my time using it to talk to the pugglings.

[Kaitto]

I believe I remember someone saying that if you want to PUG you'l have to gear up your mech in a Lone Wolf style, that way your chances of survivability will rise. If things go wrong? Just retreat, I'm a Jenner player and whenever I get left the last one standing I just "tactical retreat", better than just being completely ganged, I never joined any organized match nor I plan to for now, I expect alot of drama unless it's friends, and even from friends, I'm expecting this game to be like LoL (not that I play it) people are gonna start being really elitist and fighting between eachother, ruining great clans and friend circles.

[Bloody Moon]

Let me translate OP for you guys:

"Pffft.. Tried Puging and i couldn't believe someone can hit my torso repeatedly with LLs on roughly 500-600m range so i accused him of aimbotting."

By the way his team got steamrolled aswell and i was not in any premades at the time. Take his words with a bit of salt.

[Nonsense]

What's needed is some sort of PUG ELO or something. That, or there needs to be a newb land...kind of like in Leage of Legends where they have leveling your account from 1-30. It doesn't have to copy LoL, but there needs to be some way of separating new players out so they're able to learn while (barring smurf accounts) playing people with similar experience levels.

[Delvish]

Bloody Moon, on 10 December 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

Let me translate OP for you guys:

"Pffft.. Tried Puging and i couldn't believe someone can hit my torso repeatedly with LLs on roughly 500-600m range so i accused him of aimbotting."

By the way his team got steamrolled aswell and i was not in any premades at the time. Take his words with a bit of salt.

And that's pretty much the norm when a below-average PUG comes to the forums and says "OMG PRE-MADES EVERY GAME!!"

I mean, on one side, i get it ... it's not fair that PGI is incapable of creating a matchmaking system where they wouldn't be playing against much better players, but at the same time ... they need to accept that, realize it's not the big bad "pre-mades" that they lose to, and either man up or go play something else. That's pretty much the only options available.

Edited by Delvish, 10 December 2012 - 06:48 PM.

[PoLaR]

I play both with my clan and pug. And I enjoy the pug games every now and then - The best solution is to use the chatbox, even though some players will completely ignore it... It's definitely the best shot!

Btw, a loss Isn't always a bad thing.. do you reall want to win 100% of the time? D: Where's the fun In that?!

[BoomDog]

Lefty Lucy, on 10 December 2012 - 05:23 PM, said:

People are going to misinterpret what you're trying to say as "whining" because that's just what people do around here. I get what you're trying to say though. For being a team game, there is remarkably little in-game team-making functionality. In-game tools are what the 70% of players who never, ever even read the forums need to be able to fully experience what the game has to offer. It's pretty broken in general.

I suggest that you try to get your group to do 8 v 8. I've been doing it a *lot* since MMP2 hit, and it's great because when you go up against that team that's just a bit better than you, you learn a lot.

You're right about the lack of tools in-game for pugs. Something as simple as pinging the mini-map would make a huge difference.

This is why ECM is such a problem in pugs. Normally, the only way to get the teams attention, other than typing in chat (good luck with that), is to just target an enemy. Or better, cycle through several enemies to let the team know where a large group is. Can't do that with ECM cloak.

I'd love an option at the end of a battle to stay with team. I'm not a social person, but I could handle just staying with the team I'm with. Especially on those rare occasion you get some kind of pug synergy going and steamroll everything.

[Gaeb]

BoomDog, on 10 December 2012 - 07:27 PM, said:

I'd love an option at the end of a battle to stay with team. I'm not a social person, but I could handle just staying with the team I'm with. Especially on those rare occasion you get some kind of pug synergy going and steamroll everything.

I really like that idea, from a matchmaker/lobby perspective - continuity for a few games in a row and an opportunity for newbs to ask experienced folks questions. Perhaps with a captain that could boot afk's or troublemakers, obviously. Still runs into problems with the concept of elo, but a neat idea.

[Kronos907]

4 out of 5 PUGGERS are baindead theres no helping that, i pretty much 100% pug any more, and there are time when after dieing have to watch through spectator mode as those SPECIAL people trudge around and shoot at everything besides the enemy, they shoot the sky.... they shoot the ground (good thing they cant shoot there own foot off)...... they shoot there own teamates, while trying to shoot the ground or the sky.

Honestly i get so frustrated sometimes i find that i am punching myself in the face and dont even know it.

I have TS and have used it but i guess that im just a glutton for punishment find it more challenging to PUG (GOD help me!)

I suppose that im secretly hopeing that PGI will implement a triggered movement in the game were if one of my fellow Puggers raises his arms to high and fires that he will shoot himself in the head. (I think im ranting, ill stop now).

[Dagger6T6]

i just have bad luck... i ALWAYS end up on the short bus side of the battle... my KDR went in the toilet

even though KDR doesn't mean much, in my case it is a clear indicator/reminder of how much pugging blows