85 replies to this topic

[Budor]

I think its fun. Sometimes you win sometimes you lose. I almost never recognize the 4mans, either there aint that many or we pugroll or 2man them most of the time...

[Major Derps]

Zylo, on 10 December 2012 - 06:15 PM, said:

I think it's more that the pre-made group members are all in Teamspeak or some other program and are just bad about watching chat. I tend to get like this at times and end up not watching chat at all. Usually I let the rest of the team know where my group is going but occasionally I will forget.

Yeah, didn't really think of that. I just frustrated with the lack of cooperation between people really. And I run a Fatlas, so to be effective I really need cooperation/team work. And I would run a smaller mech, that is easier to pick engagements in. But I find some atlas pilots aren't too switched on. And instead of risking a derp atlas pilot, I'll pilot one myself. Then I can only blame myself. Sorry, got a little off topic there.

[Rifter]

Im actually having way more fun running pugs right now. Because i can still run the mechs i want and most of the time have a fun game.

I dropped a few 8 man drops last week with a few friends(nothing super organized we dropped what we wanted most of the time) and we got rolled by all raven ECM teams and DC atlas teams, 8 man drops have literally tunrned into who brings the most ECM wins. We figured this out after a hour or so and started dropping 6 ECM DC atlas and 2 ECM streak commandos and then we as well started rolling most 8 man teams we came across after that. Its just not fun, unless you happen to want to drop your DC atlas every game.

So i have found that pugging or dropping with a few friends in under 4 man groups is the way to go right now.

Honestly the game is way to glitchy right now for any kind of competative play anyways so getting into organized 8 man groups right now is way way premature IMO. So might as well have fun with the pugs till the fix ECM and the rest of the bugs this game has.

[Bully_Hayes]

I think folks tend to forget most new players( I think...cant say for sure what the actual percentage is) come in PUG for awhile as they learn to play, buy a premade get on teamspeak or vent and hook up with a group. More new players come in and the cycle repeats. Some folks stay as pugs for a variety of reasons none of which are anybodies business but theres. Who nows what the current percentage of new players to veterans playing pugs is !!

Everybody here like it or not was one once and some of these folks are likely to be your future clan or mech corp team mates.

[5th Fedcom Rat]

Wish they'd just add a lone wolf mode where no grouping is allowed at all. So easy. Fixes so many PUG problems.

Then restrict groups to multiples of 2s that can be matched in a mid-range group mode. Might be 2 teams of 4, or 4 teams of 2.

3 Modes. Lone wolf, partial group, full group. Not hard to do PGI, not hard at all.

.

Edited by 5th Fedcom Rat, 11 December 2012 - 01:14 AM.

[Zylo]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 11 December 2012 - 01:14 AM, said:

Wish they'd just add a lone wolf mode where no grouping is allowed at all. So easy. Fixes so many PUG problems.

Then restrict groups to multiples of 2s that can be matched in a mid-range group mode. Might be 2 teams of 4, or 4 teams of 2.

3 Modes. Lone wolf, partial group, full group. Not hard to do PGI, not hard at all.

.

It's hard to do when there aren't enough players to support so many different match settings.

Also what is going to stop players from trying to drop at the same time even without a group? 8 players in voice chat all click launch at the same time using specific mechs which could give them a good chance of ending up in the same game and possibly on the same side. If even 2 or 3 ended up on the same side how would you know they were really a group on voice chat?

[Armorpiercer M82]

separate completely premades and PUGS. and the game will be fine.

[Horned Bull]

Delvish, on 10 December 2012 - 06:16 PM, said:

Um, no offense, but the problem isn't PUGing.



And that's in trial mechs.

Why is it people can't gauge their own skill level? It's not the pre-made boogyman that's killing you.

You (as well as a lot of people) need elo based matchmaking where you aren't going to be facing people with a lot more experience and skill at the game.

As much as I hate to use stats as an argument:



I don't care much about a premade boogeyman killing me, but I can tell something is wrong when my team goes 2/8 or 1/8. It's probably normal to have one or two newbs in my team. Sure they have to earn their "wings" on the battlefield, but I doubt in possibility of being teamed up with a whole team of newbs.

Also some of "boogeymen" like to trashtalk before decimating my team with a deathball. Or maybe this are just my experiences...

But yes I agree elo system would be great to help the situation.

Also I wish there was a team-indicator that lets you see who plays in a premade and who's not (that would also expose synch-droppers), for sure it would help a little with all the whining.

[Ghogiel]

Pugging is worse just recently.

I have to drop with a very limited build and variant set or the odds of winning fall off dramatically.

Matchmaker isn't helping things though.

That last pug match was awesome though. dropped 6v8 with 2 AFKers. So it was 4v8 at the start and it came down to a 1v1 at the end. Felt goodman.

[Armorpiercer M82]

5th Fedcom Rat, on 11 December 2012 - 01:14 AM, said:

3 Modes. Lone wolf, partial group, full group. Not hard to do PGI, not hard at all.

.

this.

its so simple.... but somehow, noone is listening here...

[Zylo]

Armorpiercer M82, on 11 December 2012 - 01:52 AM, said:

separate completely premades and PUGS. and the game will be fine.

I'll bet the pug players will still find something to complain about to explain their losses if this happened.

What would be next?

No trial mechs allowed because the team with more trial mechs seems to lose more often?

Small groups if present on each side will balance a match. If a match is limited to only a single group on each side this will help the current matchmaker issues. Currently it's possible for 2x 4-player groups to end up on the same side. It is not clear if the other side also has multiple groups or no groups.

Since 8 players must be in a group to play the organized 8 vs 8 matches there will still be small groups needing somewhere to play. Mixing small groups in with random players not in a group is fine as long as both sides have an equal number of pre-made groups making up the team.

Edited by Zylo, 11 December 2012 - 02:24 AM.

[Ilwrath]

Pugging is not that bad. I must say that the afk'ers and stupid people annoys me but
that is okay when it is a pure pug match. That changes when you have a premade on the other team. Now the 1-2 afk'ers really hurt because they are not even meat shields.

It feels like there is less pure pug matches now than before. The failed 8 vs 8 patch somehow made it worse. It also feels like the population is shrinking.

The sad thing is that you can never know if you lost because of a sync drop against you or if it was just against better pugs because groups are not marked.

I wonder what supreme clown decided that NOT marking groups was a good idea?

WoT marks group for a reason. WoT is a fantastic success. This game does not mark groups. Is this game a success? Even a small one?

With all that said; game is still fun and worth playing. They could remove the stats though
because with the matchmaking they don't matter at all.

Normally I would be pissed at my bad stats but why be angry when they are worthless as an indicator of "skill" and there is no lobby chat to abuse? I am kinda surprised that I am in the green with pure pugging.
[color=#0A0]
1.82[/color]

Kill / Death Ratio

703.82
Avg. XP Per Match

262 / 324
Wins / Losses

Stats was important in WoT because you could use them to smack down people in the general ingame chat when they was talking ******** about tanks, especially win % but here
we don't even have a ingame chat lobby and the matchmaker is simply unfair. So maybe remove stats? That would make the horrid people feel better about getting rolled by sync drops and whatnot.

[Ilwrath]

Zylo, on 11 December 2012 - 02:21 AM, said:

I'll bet the pug players will still find something to complain about to explain their losses if this happened.

What would be next?

No trial mechs allowed because the team with more trial mechs seems to lose more often?

Putting all trials in a separate que would be good for everybody.

1 que for trials
1 for premades
1 for everybody else

I doubt that this game have the population for it though.

[LennStar]

We all should use teamspeak? So this is the new minimum requirement - having 1. a certain program installed 2. the required hardware 3. a room for ourselfs with noone interfering 4. Liking playstyle X?


Yes the people always complaining that PUGs dont follow orders...

Propably Pugs don't want play military? They want fun.
Propably they are just bad at giving orders? (1. sentence "This time an Atlas can follow me!". 2. sentence "Why isnt an Atlas follwing me? I have a Cataphract that is build around teamplay!!")
Propably they are not teamplayers? (Like the people screaming "Lousy team!" if they get killed first. I'm inclined to do that too, sometimes, but you can't expect people reading your mind. And in a light its your fault for not watching where your teammates move to. Real dumb play is relatively seldom.)
Propably these arent PUGs but Premades who just wont listen to anything in the chat? I often see them - going their way whatever anyone else does or says and dont even announcing that.

And PUGing does not mean you lose. I only Pug and my side wins about 1/3. Considered the disadvatage against organised groups that is a fair rate.

If PUGs are bad at teamplay than be the teamplayer - go with them and cover their back instead of telling them they should follow you. R targets. Call them out (2 Lights in d7; Light near base). Say if their LRM hit only rocks. If you see a 1:1 fire at the enemy. Yesterday I teamed up with an cent in my 2PPC Jenner and we killed one atlas and an Awesome before parting. No words, just seeing him go to an enemy and following him, shoot where he shoots.

[Zylo]

Ilwrath, on 11 December 2012 - 02:24 AM, said:

I wonder what supreme clown decided that NOT marking groups was a good idea?

WoT marks group for a reason. WoT is a fantastic success. This game does not mark groups. Is this game a success? Even a small one?



Stats was important in WoT because you could use them to smack down people in the general ingame chat when they was talking ******** about tanks, especially win % but here
we don't even have a ingame chat lobby and the matchmaker is simply unfair. So maybe remove stats? That would make the horrid people feel better about getting rolled by sync drops and whatnot.

Or they could fix matchmaker to only allow 1 pre-made group on each side and remove any chance of sync-dropping to allow an 8-player premade team as 2x 4-player teams.

I agree about marking groups in matches on both the loading and match results player lists. A WoT style group icon is all that is needed.

Edited by Zylo, 11 December 2012 - 02:35 AM.

[Ghogiel]

Zylo, on 11 December 2012 - 02:34 AM, said:

Or they could fix matchmaker to only allow 1 pre-made group on each side and remove any chance of sync-dropping to allow an 8-player premade team as 2x 4-player teams.

I agree about marking groups in matches on both the loading and match results player lists. A WoT style group icon is all that is needed.

That.
If that was in now then pretty much any issue with match making would float by until the phase 3 came into play.

Edited by Ghogiel, 11 December 2012 - 02:38 AM.

[Lefty Lucy]

Zylo, on 11 December 2012 - 02:21 AM, said:

I'll bet the pug players will still find something to complain about to explain their losses if this happened.

Like pre-mades aren't doing the same thing about the 8-man queue.

"they won because they stacked atlases"

"they won because they just base rush"

"they won because they have too much ECM"

[Zylo]

Ilwrath, on 11 December 2012 - 02:29 AM, said:

Putting all trials in a separate que would be good for everybody.

1 que for trials
1 for premades
1 for everybody else

I doubt that this game have the population for it though.

The problem is the small groups. Placing multiple small groups against a single 8 player group is similar to the effect of 8 random players vs 2x groups of 4 players.

8 vs 8 matches require a group of 8. If you have 7 players online you are forced to run multiple groups instead. The most fair way to handle small groups is by making sure they are divided evenly between teams in a match. Currently matchmaker is allowing multiple teams on the same side which is hurting game balance.

[Sturmbringer]

First of all.. Im somehow happy about the discussion here, I read some really good ideas - and to the people who
are trying to insult me - you are forgiven

This is beta right ? We are the dedicated fans.. and maybe PGI will implement some ideas from us.

The main reason for my post is: Something isnt feeling right when PUGing.. this is a danger to a game which needs a constant stream of fresh players. It should be easier for new players to be successful and I think an idea like this one could really improve the overall situation.

[color=#959595]3 Modes. Lone wolf, partial group, full group. Not hard to do PGI, not hard at all.[/color]

[Ilwrath]

Zylo, on 11 December 2012 - 02:34 AM, said:

Or they could fix matchmaker to only allow 1 pre-made group on each side and remove any chance of sync-dropping to allow an 8-player premade team as 2x 4-player teams.

I agree about marking groups in matches on both the loading and match results player lists. A WoT style group icon is all that is needed.

I find it hard to understand why they have not done this already. Maybe it would prove just how broken the matchmaking is?

A free to pay game need new blood constantly. Someone that is randomly trying this game out would probably just laugh and uninstall after a few quality drop with other newcomers against a good premade, or if really lucky, against a sync drop.

As I said earlier the game is still fun (huge mechs with lasers!) but I have signed up for Hawken and War Thunder — the upcoming combat MMO-game by Gaijin Entertainment. I will try them out and if they are actually good, then this game has lost a player that would probably have spent more cash. Maybe that cash is better spent on Hawken or War Thunder? I guess I'll find out.

Edited by Ilwrath, 11 December 2012 - 02:50 AM.