55 replies to this topic

[Erik Hollister]

Why would anyone play anything but an ECM light now?

Before ECM, the big dogs had a chance to soften up the speedsters with LRMs before the little buggers could start nipping at your heels. Now, by the time you can target them, they are on you. A big slow mech is at a huge disadvantage against a small light close up, everyone knows this. Not only does the light mech move around better, but they have a much smaller target box. You either have to get lucky with a plodder and have the other pilot make a mistake, or get some help (which rarely happens in pugs).

In TT (I know, I know), the lights are recon mechs and flankers. In MWO, they are front line assassins that can't be stopped, now that our friends at PGI have OP'd the ECM.

I've heard some say that some teammates should switch their ecm to counter mode. Who the heck is going to turn off their "missle shield" and "stealth mode" to let in a few ecms? Not likely to happen.

Hopefully Beagle Active Probe is on its way... soon.

[The Cheese]

also, AMS is now a waste of tonnage.

[MuonNeutrino]

Erik Hollister, on 10 December 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

Hopefully Beagle Active Probe is on its way... soon.

Got some bad news for you - BAP is already here, and it does absolutely nothing against ECM. In fact, ECM turns it off completely if the ecm mech gets too close. Sucks, but pulse lasers are about your only useful weapon against them now.

[Khan Reaper]

I personally don't use the ECM. I run a Cataphract with 4 ML and 2 Gauss. With some practice, I've gotten pretty good at laying those scout mechs out when they start their circling. I can take them out pretty consistent now with that double gauss to the face. So while I understand that the ECM may seem OP to most, I've not had any issues with it yet. The only thing that has thrown me off with it is when I start losing my team mates signal. Then I become afraid to fire at any new mechs that come into my view. I haven't taken out a team mate yet because of it...but it is my only worry.

[Erik Hollister]

I hadn't noticed that BAP does anything other then waste tonnage. I thought it was in the game as a place holder, not actually functioning yet. If it is what its going to be... well then its more useless than FF armor.

Apparantly, the designers like little mechs. FF armor is only useful if you have enough space after endo steel, which means light weapons, which means light mechs. ECM helps all mechs against LRMs, but really helps the lights the most due to their overall lack of armor to soak up the volleys. So.... an ECM guarded light with ES and FF and DHS (if needed) moving at warp speed with a hit box the size of a mailbox... this is what the game will degenerate to in short order if they don't rework their theories.

Maybe they'll go overboard and make it useless like they did with UAC5s.

Hey, all you folks with the missle boats... at least you can load yourself up with SRM6s and shotgun the enemy for a couple of points of damage before you go up in a mushroom cloud from your reactor overheating!!! Have fun with that!!!!

[Rifter]

ECM is a huge issue thats for sure.

But i find those squishy little light ECM mechs dont like my dual AC20 K2 cat much at all.

In 8 man groups its crazy now, its not worth playing unless you are dropping 6+ ECM mech teams. But pugs i find you can still drop what mechs you want and have a fun game most of the time.

[Kahna]

ECM nullifies everything and is only countered by itself. You can thank the crowd that is always crying 'nerf' and damn whatever consequences it might bring.

[Kaox Veed]

These are netcode and lack of collision problems, not ecm problems.

[Erik Hollister]

Khan Reaper, on 10 December 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

I personally don't use the ECM. I run a Cataphract with 4 ML and 2 Gauss. With some practice, I've gotten pretty good at laying those scout mechs out when they start their circling. I can take them out pretty consistent now with that double gauss to the face. So while I understand that the ECM may seem OP to most, I've not had any issues with it yet. The only thing that has thrown me off with it is when I start losing my team mates signal. Then I become afraid to fire at any new mechs that come into my view. I haven't taken out a team mate yet because of it...but it is my only worry.

I can 30 pts of steel balls to the face will slow them down quite a bit. Most players don't have a snowballs chance in hell of making that shot, however. Some don't have the skill, some don't have the computer to make it smooth enough to target (although great strides have been made by PGI to fix this... thank you!), some don't have the ping to hit a side running light with a single shot like a gauss. Many are all these.

Meanwhile, if a light pilot hones his driving ability and doesn't run into an obstacle, they can slash a big basically stationary target to ribbons.

It the degenerates to hordes of circling lights knifing each other. Not the game I'm hoping for.

[Kousagi]

OP, If you really think light mechs with ECM are front line mechs, then i feel for you. This really is a case of learn to aim here. Light mechs are still flankers/scouts/harassers in MWO. They punish you for being out of formation, or not paying attention. They how ever will not really do much in a front line fight, head 2 head. Sure, they might be able to run around like a chicken with their head cut off in the front lines, but they will not be doing much in the way of damage, and might even be eating quite a bit of friendly fire.

Also, ya know, Lights do fight other lights, hard concept I know. My little ECM raven has streaks just for fighting other lights, and I do commonly flip to counter mode to nail other ECM lights with my streaks. Its a nice tactic too, I can even flip back to disrupt should some thing get a lock on me, causing them to drop the lock, that is assuming the other light I'm fighting didn't flip to counter mode. Which if they did flip to counter, then I'm kinda boned, but thats call tactics so.

[Inviticus]

ECM is pretty much a crutch in it's current form. It renders a good selection of weapons useless and provides a nice stealth field for your team. I find that in PuGs, the team with the most ECM wins. there is too much gain for too little drawback and I hope they nerf it soon.

[Erik Hollister]

Kaox Veed, on 10 December 2012 - 09:11 PM, said:

These are netcode and lack of collision problems, not ecm problems.

They are 'ecm as it stands now' problems. If they are caused by netcode, I hope they get it fixed. If they are implementation errors, I hope they get it fixed. If its just a bad idea, I hope they get it fixed.

As they said in the patchnotes, its a game changer. The gentleman that wrote the notes said that he couldn't wait to get at the streak cats... knowing it was neutering missle mechs. Doesn't sound like a netcode error to me, brother.

[Franchi]

Erik Hollister, on 10 December 2012 - 09:09 PM, said:

I hadn't noticed that BAP does anything other then waste tonnage. I thought it was in the game as a place holder, not actually functioning yet. If it is what its going to be... well then its more useless than FF armor.

Apparantly, the designers like little mechs. FF armor is only useful if you have enough space after endo steel, which means light weapons, which means light mechs. ECM helps all mechs against LRMs, but really helps the lights the most due to their overall lack of armor to soak up the volleys. So.... an ECM guarded light with ES and FF and DHS (if needed) moving at warp speed with a hit box the size of a mailbox... this is what the game will degenerate to in short order if they don't rework their theories.

Maybe they'll go overboard and make it useless like they did with UAC5s.

Hey, all you folks with the missle boats... at least you can load yourself up with SRM6s and shotgun the enemy for a couple of points of damage before you go up in a mushroom cloud from your reactor overheating!!! Have fun with that!!!!

SRM cats are lethal ignore them at your own risk.

[Roland]

Lol @calling uac's useless, or saying that FF armour is for light mechs .

[Kaox Veed]

Erik Hollister, on 10 December 2012 - 09:19 PM, said:

They are 'ecm as it stands now' problems. If they are caused by netcode, I hope they get it fixed. If they are implementation errors, I hope they get it fixed. If its just a bad idea, I hope they get it fixed.

As they said in the patchnotes, its a game changer. The gentleman that wrote the notes said that he couldn't wait to get at the streak cats... knowing it was neutering missle mechs. Doesn't sound like a netcode error to me, brother.

I am saying lights are hard to hit because the practically teleport everywhere, and even if a shot connects it doesn't mean it registers. I agree that ECM needs tweaking but the OPs problems aren't ECM problems they are problems made worse by ECM.

[Kousagi]

BAP has worked for quite some time. Really it was kinda OP before ECM, cause with the mod and bap, my streak cat was picking up people at 1.2k out... I could not even see them yet but my sensors could. FF is also pretty unless for every mech and if you Stick FF on a light mech, then you just wasted your Cbill's. you gain a whole .7 tons on a 35 ton much for 14 crit slots? Ya 100% not worth it for a light mech... You'll run out of crit slots on a light with FF/ES/DH before you run out of tonnage.

UAC's, still pretty powerful... annoy they jam a ton, but ya. SRM6 cat can fire quite a bit before overheating... got to love big XL's and DH's.

Edited by Kousagi, 10 December 2012 - 09:26 PM.

[Franchi]

Kaox Veed, on 10 December 2012 - 09:25 PM, said:

I am saying lights are hard to hit because the practically teleport everywhere, and even if a shot connects it doesn't mean it registers. I agree that ECM needs tweaking but the OPs problems aren't ECM problems they are problems made worse by ECM.

That is why ECm should have been left out until netcode and knockdowns were back in a functioning state.

[Erik Hollister]

Roland, on 10 December 2012 - 09:21 PM, said:

Lol @calling uac's useless, or saying that FF armour is for light mechs .

Lol at you Lolling, my friend!

UACs jam like mad, even if you aren't "spraying and praying". Maybe its just me, but I don't care for the unjamming mechanism that is in place.

FF armor IS for light mechs. Why would anyone use it in a heavier mech? If you only have room for ES or FF, the math says you go ES... period. If you have room for both, you are probably going into the fight too lightly armed for the size of your mech and you are going to take a pounding.

[Franchi]

Erik Hollister, on 10 December 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

Lol at you Lolling, my friend!

UACs jam like mad, even if you aren't "spraying and praying". Maybe its just me, but I don't care for the unjamming mechanism that is in place.

FF armor IS for light mechs. Why would anyone use it in a heavier mech? If you only have room for ES or FF, the math says you go ES... period. If you have room for both, you are probably going into the fight too lightly armed for the size of your mech and you are going to take a pounding.

Streak cats can and should use both in order to squeeze in a standard 315, but that is a build relegated to the dust heap.

[Erik Hollister]

Kaox Veed, on 10 December 2012 - 09:25 PM, said:

I am saying lights are hard to hit because the practically teleport everywhere, and even if a shot connects it doesn't mean it registers. I agree that ECM needs tweaking but the OPs problems aren't ECM problems they are problems made worse by ECM.

OH, I gotcha... yeah, you are right. Problem was that people were making the recon mechs pay that flew into enemy territory to harrass, grab spot bonuses, do a little capping. A good light pilot can do these things pretty much at will now.

I'm not saying it won't be a popular thing with many. I think the majority of players believe as I do, though.