109 replies to this topic

[TruePoindexter]

SpiralRazor, on 11 December 2012 - 12:36 PM, said:

You are fooling yourself if you think youve had great success with the LPL as brawling weapons...The are > Medium Lasers only in that they take up one less weapon hardpoint, but 2 mediums > LPL by far, at the range they are most commonly used at.

I didn't say that they're ideal but given reduced hard points they aren't bad. In CB I ran an LRM boat D-DC for awhile with 3x LRM 15 and 2x LPL that worked very well. The speed at which the LPL apply their damage is a major boon.

[Namwons]

ERPPC>PPC>LPL=7T/10 damage

LPL are a waste of tonnage imo. I rather use a PPC or ERPPC. MPL are the only ones worth taking or any of the regular lasers.

[TruePoindexter]

Namwons, on 11 December 2012 - 12:42 PM, said:

ERPPC>PPC>LPL=7T/10 damage

LPL are a waste of tonnage imo. I rather use a PPC or ERPPC. MPL are the only ones worth taking or any of the regular lasers.

LPL don't have to be lead (well lag lead but no projectile speed).

[SpiralRazor]

TruePoindexter, on 11 December 2012 - 12:39 PM, said:

I didn't say that they're ideal but given reduced hard points they aren't bad. In CB I ran an LRM boat D-DC for awhile with 3x LRM 15 and 2x LPL that worked very well. The speed at which the LPL apply their damage is a major boon.

Ok, granted...In CB, I messed around with LPLs on Atlai as well, but only because you could fit 35+ Heat sinks on the atlas. I was using an RS though for arm mounts. I am willing to bet though that 90% of your damage came from your lrm 45.


Im glad that you agree that LPLS are only as good as "niche" level, when you are concerned about reduced hardpoints. Personally, id rather use anything else...If I have one Laser Hardpoint, its getting a MPL if i want to prep up my brawling ability. If I have two, its getting two MLs.

Any other damage at the in between ranges is incidental in trying to maintain long, or close to short.


If there is one thing thats pretty clear to me from this past weeks play, is that there is no Medium Range anymore. Its all either Close in, or Long and thats what the meta has developed into. Mechs close range really, really fast...and brawls are at <180, sniping from 600+.

Edited by SpiralRazor, 11 December 2012 - 12:53 PM.

[TruePoindexter]

SpiralRazor, on 11 December 2012 - 12:48 PM, said:

Ok, granted...In CB, I messed around with LPLs on Atlai as well, but only because you could fit 35+ Heat sinks on the atlas. I was using an RS though for arm mounts. I am willing to bet though that 90% of your damage came from your lrm 45.

Oh of course! The LPL were a compromise of well I want lasers but I only have two mounts and I have a lot of room left...2 LPL and heat sinks then! That said I had some epic moments of ruining three Jenners back to back using nothing but the LPL at close range.

[Cataphract]

Even If you're a heavy minmaxer LPL aren't nearly as useful as plain LL in the long run. They are useful, but you have to be absolutely precise in how you use them to come out on top over other laser weapons especially since its number one competitor isn't even the LL but the ML. LPL really need a further duration reduction to really shine over other lasers. I keep finding myself shelving them and just using ML and then a bigger ballistic or just more lasers over a few LPL. Honestly at 7 tons I personally just use normal PPCs. Generally better spike damage, heat and your only weakness when you put them on 75+KPH heavies and mediums is light mechs. The one reason I do keep trying LPL out is that they still melt lights to the ground really fast.

[Duatam]

If pulse lasers have better accuracy in TT, maybe they could simulate that by making them automatically hit the pulses into same part always.

E.g, you only aim the first pulse, and rest of the pulses will hit the same position automatically. That would increase their usefullness.

[Lykaon]

xenoglyph, on 11 December 2012 - 04:10 AM, said:

LPL requires less skill, so you pay a tax in the form of weight, heat, and range nerfs.

LLs are a formidable weapon, especially in the hands of a pilot with steady aim.

I think it's fine how it is.

Not sure how it requires less skill.I would assume that the longer beam duration of the large laser allows for more time to correct a poor shot placement and as such more forgiving to bad shooting.

If anything I would say the purpose of the LPL is to strike smaller areas with more precise damage and as such require at least the same level of "skill" to aim effectivley.

[Khobai]

Quote

f pulse lasers have better accuracy in TT, maybe they could simulate that by making them automatically hit the pulses into same part always.

um no. the last thing we need is more guided weapons.

if they want to increase pulse laser accuracy the best way to do it is decrease beam duration.

[ArmandTulsen]

Be bold. Use ER LL.

[JakeTehPwner]

LPLs make scouts cringe, I'll stick to using them.

[Odins Fist]

Large Pulse Lasers "SUCK" in terms of return on investment of (HEAT & TONNAGE)..
.
End of Story...

[Stingz]

Pulse in general has bad DoT, but better burst in a short time. They were developed with 2.0 DHS, cause this stuff just runs hot.

L.Las is better on slow mechs/targets, L.Pulse is better for Hit/Run(then cool down), fast mechs/targets, and low hard-point systems.

Pulse lasers in general seem to pierce lagshield.

[Omni Tek]

I like pulse lasers in general, other than overheating faster they're more new user friendly because they're easier to aim.

[Sug]

If the discharge time for all the pulse lasers was as short as the small pulse lasers (0.50s) I might used them. I know it's not TT but they really need to weigh 5 tons to be worth looking at.

To balance lasers you have:
Beam Duration, Cooldown, Weight, Heat, Critical Slots, Damage, Range.

LPLs trade 40% more weight, 50% more heat, and 33% less range for a 10% increase in damage and a 25% reduction in beam duration.


LPL is too heavy, too hot, and too short ranged for the meager increase in damage/dps.

Beam duration and cooldown should be lowered to increase the LPL's dps from 2.5 to 3.

Stingz, on 11 December 2012 - 02:16 PM, said:

L.Pulse is better for Hit/Run(then cool down), fast mechs/targets, and low hard-point systems.

You'd be better off taking 2 medium lasers and 5 heatsinks. Same dps. Similar range. Less heat. Plus extra sinks.

Edited by Sug, 11 December 2012 - 03:08 PM.

[Pr8Dator]

Sometimes, when you have only 2 slots like on a 4X, you really can't choose. I have a LPL on my 4X and I love it.

[Ryebear]

While I like this implementation of Pulse Lasers more than any other MechWarrior game, they just arent competitive. Assuming you are hardpoint restricted, a LPL will make you heat restricted with on a minor advantage in beam duration compared to a LL.

My recommendation is dont touch heat or damage on MPL or LPLs but drop their beam duration to 0.5s, that would MPLs and LPLs a 0.5s faster cycle time that their non pulse variants and more the more focused damage.

Also consider what happens when they increase the speed of PPCs from 1200 to 2000, wont that entirely make LPLs redundant? The ability to put the full 10 damage into a single location with similar heat (-1 or +3) and a 25% shorter recycle time and much much longer range. That 10 damage also being the magic number of item health for crit seeking, oh yeah, and the future addition of an EMP effect.

The only reason to take it will really come down to wanting a shorter duration blast from a hitscan weapon in single hardpoint and willing to compromise ANYTHING to have it. That to me has about as much competitive utility as a Flamer, but loses out on aesthetics because Flamers looks and sound cooler that LPLs AMIRIGHT!.

Edited by Ryebear, 11 December 2012 - 03:14 PM.

[HurlockHolmes]

Ryebear, on 11 December 2012 - 03:08 PM, said:

oh yeah, and the future addition of an EMP effect.

Pretty sure you need more then one ppc to cause a emp effect. Assuming they ever implement it properly.

[Mr 144]

Checklist for LPL use:

Hardpoint Full
Critical Slot Full (for extra HS)
Location use (LPL should be in the arm)
Tonnage Light
Engine Upgrade cost precludes min/maxing with an LL.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

You can't really compare an LPL to a ML due to hardpoints. It's real simple to say 4xML are better than 2xLPL, but a whole slew of things preclude this possibility on the majority of chassis'. In debates like this, people resort to math, but usually overlook the hardpoint restriction, or downplay its relevance.

Mr 144

[BlackSquirrel]

For the heat and weight... No you're better off with other systems. I suppose you could make a case for scenarios...but that would be it. (Burst damage on a skirmisher mech that's not sticking around) However lights can't really field them...dragons are better off with AC's.

IMO some weight should be dropped from pulse lasers, and slot-age increased instead.