158 replies to this topic

[Gabrielpendragon]

In game coms would balance things a lot.

And you can't say who would win, i have seen many premades get stomped by puggies that just happen to be working together.

Also don't see why a solo only drop option is such a big deal? Not like it really changes the game for premades much, they will still be dropping with other premades and people that dont solo only drop, i know personally i dont care enough to bother changing it I know that i can work well with others and can assist teams that i do drop with even if i dont have one.

Not being able to work as a team is the issues pugs have, it is the biggest issue people will always have.

[Lin Shai]

Bad PUGs still whining on forums ... good PUGs happily playing game and doing just fine, rarely running into the dreaded "pre-made" boogyman.

New players ... still hosed.

Film at 11.

[Horned Bull]

Gabrielpendragon, on 12 December 2012 - 06:07 PM, said:

In game coms would balance things a lot.

And you can't say who would win, i have seen many premades get stomped by puggies that just happen to be working together.

Also don't see why a solo only drop option is such a big deal? Not like it really changes the game for premades much, they will still be dropping with other premades and people that dont solo only drop, i know personally i dont care enough to bother changing it I know that i can work well with others and can assist teams that i do drop with even if i dont have one.

Not being able to work as a team is the issues pugs have, it is the biggest issue people will always have.

A separate queue for small groups would be problematic. Imagine - you have only one friend that likes battletech (actually you two love it), so you two want to have a blast. You log in, you create a group.... and then you spend 4-5 minutes on waiting for a match because the "small group queue" is pretty much dead or filled with 4 man parties.

[Rifter]

Zylo, on 12 December 2012 - 05:44 PM, said:

No one has yet provided an answer why a single pre-made group on each side in a random match would be imbalanced.

You cant possibly be serious?

You dont see how a min/maxed groups of 4 ECM equipped mechs on voicecomms could have a serious advantage over say 2 guys grouped with no voice just trying to have some fun playing together?

I've played this game about every way possible over the last 5-6 months, grouped with 5-8 on voice when that was possible, full 8 men after the last patch, and with fewer than 4 when im just trying to have some fun with a few friends. All situations have been played with and without voice comms, some min maxed to the **** some just bring whatever and have some fun.

The fact of the matter is even if you limit it to one "team" per side those "teams" could be seriously unbalanced like my example above at the start of this post.

The OP is right in that a small group drop option would solve ALL the issues with the current MM. You want to solo drop with solo players you can do that, you want to drop in small groups you can do that too, you want to drop full 8 that is also an option. Adding a trial mech only drop option would also go a long way to help the new players.

You could also change the current MM to match only similer sized groups vs similer sized groups filled with pugs, example 2 man group and 6 pugs vs 2 man group with 6 pugs. But do NOT allow multiple groups on the same team to avoid abuse.

There are many ways to solve this issue but a simple suggestion like you are advicating will still leave it unbalanced.

[Jman5]

Why don't we just have a randomized 1-15 second artificial timer put in place when people hit join game for PUGs only. Note this would not be put in place for the 8v8 Premade gametype since sync dropping two teams is used legitimately for practicing or competition.

Hell, you could take it a step further and only implement the artificial timer when people are in a 2-4 man team.

[Zylo]

Rifter, on 12 December 2012 - 07:24 PM, said:

You cant possibly be serious?

You dont see how a min/maxed groups of 4 ECM equipped mechs on voicecomms could have a serious advantage over say 2 guys grouped with no voice just trying to have some fun playing together?

I've played this game about every way possible over the last 5-6 months, grouped with 5-8 on voice when that was possible, full 8 men after the last patch, and with fewer than 4 when im just trying to have some fun with a few friends. All situations have been played with and without voice comms, some min maxed to the **** some just bring whatever and have some fun.

The fact of the matter is even if you limit it to one "team" per side those "teams" could be seriously unbalanced like my example above at the start of this post.

The OP is right in that a small group drop option would solve ALL the issues with the current MM. You want to solo drop with solo players you can do that, you want to drop in small groups you can do that too, you want to drop full 8 that is also an option. Adding a trial mech only drop option would also go a long way to help the new players.

You could also change the current MM to match only similer sized groups vs similer sized groups filled with pugs, example 2 man group and 6 pugs vs 2 man group with 6 pugs. But do NOT allow multiple groups on the same team to avoid abuse.

There are many ways to solve this issue but a simple suggestion like you are advicating will still leave it unbalanced.

Ok, so what is going to stop players from running those loaded up mechs and just solo stomping pugs? What happens if 1 team has a bunch of solo players with loaded mechs vs the other team that is solo players in mostly trial mechs? Isn't this just as unbalanced due to equipment differences in the mechs?

I'm all for matching pre-made groups in equal numbers when possible, a group of 4 + 4 pug players vs another group of 4 + 4 pug players. Matching equipment will prove more difficult unless matchmaking moves to some sort of BV system that includes every possible mech upgrade.

The min maxing of mechs has little to do with pre-made group size and more to do with individual players.

[Rifter]

Jman5, on 12 December 2012 - 07:33 PM, said:

Why don't we just have a randomized 1-15 second artificial timer put in place when people hit join game for PUGs only. Note this would not be put in place for the 8v8 Premade gametype since sync dropping two teams is used legitimately for practicing or competition.

Hell, you could take it a step further and only implement the artificial timer when people are in a 2-4 man team.

This is the best idea in this thread so far, by a long shot.

[Rifter]

Zylo, on 12 December 2012 - 07:34 PM, said:

Ok, so what is going to stop players from running those loaded up mechs and just solo stomping pugs?

Are you seriously trying to compare min/maxed group drops to solo drops, seriously??????

Even though that is a stupid question ill answer anyways. Nothing. However nothing is stopping the opposing pugs from dropping in whatever they want either so it is fair for all, bring what you feel like playing, thats half the fun of a pug game.

There is nothing you can do however to overcome a min/maxed 4 man group on voice though thats why the current system is seriously unbalanced, when you get dropped into a game against a min/maxed 4 man group and 4 pugs and you have 8 random pugs, with no ability to communicate(typing is not a form of communication after the first 20 seconds of a game, no one has time to type while under fire). Nor do the pugs have the advantage of talking before the game to discuss loadouts and tactics, for that matter the pugs cant even look at each others mechs and see loadouts which premades can do before the match.

A single min/maxed mech and a co-ordinated group of 4 of them on voice are totally different things, i do not understand how you cannot see that.

[Zylo]

Rifter, on 12 December 2012 - 07:45 PM, said:

Are you seriously trying to compare min/maxed group drops to solo drops, seriously??????

Even though that is a stupid question ill answer anyways. Nothing. However nothing is stopping the opposing pugs from dropping in whatever they want either so it is fair for all, bring what you feel like playing, thats half the fun of a pug game.

There is nothing you can do however to overcome a min/maxed 4 man group on voice though thats why the current system is seriously unbalanced, when you get dropped into a game against a min/maxed 4 man group and 4 pugs and you have 8 random pugs, with no ability to communicate(typing is not a form of communication after the first 20 seconds of a game, no one has time to type while under fire). Nor do the pugs have the advantage of talking before the game to discuss loadouts and tactics, for that matter the pugs cant even look at each others mechs and see loadouts which premades can do before the match.

A single min/maxed mech and a co-ordinated group of 4 of them on voice are totally different things, i do not understand how you cannot see that.

Player rating matchmaking is supposed to solve this problem. Try again.

[Rifter]

Zylo, on 12 December 2012 - 07:48 PM, said:

Player rating matchmaking is supposed to solve this problem. Try again.

Then what are you trying to say?

[Zylo]

Rifter, on 12 December 2012 - 07:50 PM, said:

Then what are you trying to say?

Quit whining and wait for phase 3 of matchmaker.

[Rifter]

Zylo, on 12 December 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

Quit whining and wait for phase 3 of matchmaker.

Are you even trying to have a conversation? how am i whining?

[Zylo]

Rifter, on 12 December 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

Are you even trying to have a conversation? how am i whining?

Do you even read your posts? They come across as whining about the imbalance between 4-man pre-made groups vs pugs.

Again, wait for phase 3 matchmaker, this game is in BETA.

[Rifter]

Zylo, on 12 December 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

Do you even read your posts? They come across as whining about the imbalance between 4-man pre-made groups vs pugs.

Again, wait for phase 3 matchmaker, this game is in BETA.

I was directly responding to post that you made, explaining why the current system in unbalanced, and that your solution would do nothing to fix that unbalance unless you add more flags other than random sized 2-4 man team + pugs vs random sized 2-4 man team + pugs.

I was simply answering a question you had asked multiple times over and over in this thread.

[Zylo]

Rifter, on 12 December 2012 - 07:58 PM, said:

I was directly responding to post that you made, explaining why the current system in unbalanced, and that your solution would do nothing to fix that unbalance unless you add more flags other than random sized 2-4 man team + pugs vs random sized 2-4 man team + pugs.

I was simply answering a question you had asked multiple times over and over in this thread.

I support adding more flags to make it even so I'm not sure what the problem is?

I want to be able to run a small group if I am up late playing during off-peak times as I'm sure many others do. If 8 are online at the time I'll lead a group of 8 but lets be honest, most merc groups don't always have a number of players online that can fit everyone into 8 player groups and not have any left out.

I have no issues with a slightly longer matchmaking time if for example matchmaker takes a bit longer to balance a pre-made group of 3 against another pre-made group of 3.

If there were small maps with only small groups dropping I would be ok with that as well but I don't think the current population of the game will support too many matchmaking options other than maybe giving new players a training area with no groups allowed that is also limited to trial mechs only.

[Rifter]

Zylo, on 12 December 2012 - 08:04 PM, said:

I support adding more flags to make it even so I'm not sure what the problem is? I want to be able to run a small group if I am up late playing during off-peak times as I'm sure many others do. If 8 are online at the time I'll lead a group of 8 but lets be honest, most merc groups don't always have a number of players online that can fit everyone into 8 player groups and not have any left out. I have no issues with a slightly longer matchmaking time if for example matchmaker takes a bit longer to balance a pre-made group of 3 against another pre-made group of 3. If there were small maps with only small groups dropping I would be ok with that as well but I don't think the current population of the game will support too many matchmaking options other than maybe giving new players a training area with no groups allowed that is also limited to trial mechs only.

Then it appears we are in agreement.

And i do totally agree that small groups need a place to play, most of my playtime is spend in groups but with less than 8 players. That place to play though is NOT against 8 random pugs though. Hopefully PGI will do something about this soon.

[Zylo]

Rifter, on 12 December 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

Then it appears we are in agreement.

And i do totally agree that small groups need a place to play, most of my playtime is spend in groups but with less than 8 players. That place to play though is NOT against 8 random pugs though. Hopefully PGI will do something about this soon.

I think there are enough small groups to place equal size groups on each side and fill the rest of the spots with random solo players. I think the majority of small groups just want to play the game with a short delay after clicking launch. Equal matchmaking should work but it's possible a +/- 1 tolerance may be needed allowing for example a group of 4 and a group of 3 facing each other with random players filling the remaining spots.

PGI just needs to change the settings to make this happen. Getting changes in before phase 3 would help.

Small groups can also have issues against sync-dropped 2x groups of 4 so it's not just solo players against the sync-drops but small group players as well.

[CPUuser123]

i like the idea of the OP, however I am not certain if the current in-game population can support three different queue brackets at this time. we will see what machmaking phase 3 will bring (from past 'phase' experience, i know not to hold my breath).

[Galenit]

The stat now is, that the matchmaking is driving new players away.

Most fun games are, when pugs working together. If any premades are on bothsides its fun to, if they are even.
But a 4man+x against pugs or 2man+pugs mostly ends in 8:0 or 7:1.
Do you sink really that someone trying this game in a trialmech stay after 10, 20 or 30 matches witthout a win?
Do you know how many games out there they can go?

Only 5% of the players in a f2p game pay for anything, 1 of 20 players is paying, but what happens when you drive 15 people away in the phase of trialmechs? If this game where monthly payed it should be no problem, but f2p needs loot of players and it needs a mass of new players every day to go on.
I worry that it will end when foundersmoney is out and they cant generate enough income from the to small playerbase left.
Its all about the future of this game.
As i wrote above, pgi has the numbers and i hope they will show them to us.

[GetinmyBellah]

Zylo, on 12 December 2012 - 07:48 PM, said:

Player rating matchmaking is supposed to solve this problem. Try again.

Exactly.. the same type of system that Relic created for Company of Heroes in 2006 basically set the groundwork for all games to follow. Not all have, but guess what? They're still not here today whereas you can start up CoH any time of day or night and quickly find a ranked match, with or without teammates. You can quickly find non ranked matches - and this is a six year old title.

ELO is going to workout all of the team and pug based player base where you'll be fighting people of equal skill. What more can you ask for? Just have patience! This is still BETA. Give constructive criticism like the OP tried to do and stop all the fanboy and whining play, please folks. Geebus enough is enough.