158 replies to this topic

[Galenit]

Mack1, on 12 December 2012 - 02:49 PM, said:

BTW everyone... If clans are not deliberately joining the PUG queue for some good old newbie farming, why are so many of them up in arms about having a solo only queue?

The next post make your post shine.
No arguments, just the boogeyman again.

Zylo, on 12 December 2012 - 02:54 PM, said:

So, what excuse will you use for getting stomped if you do get that solo only match option?

Wait, I think I've got it!
Your team had more trial mechs!

You can play solo in it or with your team against other teams in the team queue.
What do you have to lose if they make a pug only queue?
I just want to understand why are you against it?

[tokumboh]

As a noobie I'd go for getting everybody as skilled as possible. Yes it would not be much fun for noobs to get slaughtered so give them a training ground where they can practice. The next problem is not so much guys whom play together a lot but the lack of good comms, This game needs voice comms badly you can see it on some of the youtube footage. Essentially the best teams often win whether they are rocking trial mechs or tricked out ECM clocked star destorying mechs, since they use strategy to isolate and take down others I've seen a team of Ravens rampage through a group since they had comms. Add comms and people will talk. The chat is pretty much a chocolate teapot I haven't enough time to say "noobie here need help" and all hell breaks loose. There is barely time to get you mech sorted before you into the fight and if someone has ECM whilst you are sorting out you weapon groups you are pretty much done. I am happy to go through a learning curve and face good groups but comms more than anything will even up things
So rant aside I'd believe that their is nothing you could do to stop premades stomping on noobies and single gunners alike but you can help both groups with comms and noobs with training area

Oh an opinions are like arseholes everyone got one and everyone else's stinks more than yours

Edited by tokumboh, 12 December 2012 - 03:15 PM.

[anonymous175]

As far as fetishes go, Pug stomping isn't even that unique.

[Zylo]

Greyfyl, on 12 December 2012 - 03:05 PM, said:

If team A has 8 players with a combined total of say 5000 games played between them and team B has 8 players with a combined total of 200 games between them.....who is going to win?

Now give half of team A the added advantage of voice chat and what's going to happen?

There are things wrong with matchmaking that just creating a 'solo only' queue won't fix outright....but it would certainly make an impovement for the solo players.

You don't think solo players will run into sync-drop players who are using voice comm to time a solo drop into a match in different mechs? I suspect 4 players in voice chat could easily end up in the same game with each taking a different weight class mech, all clicking launch together and having at least a good chance of a few of them ending up in the same game, possibly on the same team. Increase that number to 8 players and this will still be a problem.

Players who are abusing the system now by sync-dropping 2x groups of 4 into random games will still find a way to go after easy targets by abusing any future matchmaking system.

[Zylo]

Galenit, on 12 December 2012 - 03:12 PM, said:

The next post make your post shine.
No arguments, just the boogeyman again.




You can play solo in it or with your team against other teams in the team queue.
What do you have to lose if they make a pug only queue?
I just want to understand why are you against it?

Because I run a small merc corp that started a month ago and don't often have 8 players online at peak times due to the spread of members across many timezones. Doing small group drops is sometimes the only option due to 8 being required for full team drops.

Quit blaming pre-made groups for your lack of success in random matches. Most small groups aren't there to exploit like the 2x 4-player groups are.

I suggest you NOT tell me how to play the game. Small group play is part of MWO, deal with it.

Edited by Zylo, 12 December 2012 - 03:23 PM.

[Mack1]

Zylo, on 12 December 2012 - 02:54 PM, said:

I think if you did this you would even find 7 or 8 from the same merc group on the same side. This is the real problem that 8 grouped players can go against 8 random players.

If a single group is present on BOTH sides with the rest of the spots filled by random players, is this not balanced?


So, what excuse will you use for getting stomped if you do get that solo only match option?

Wait, I think I've got it!
Your team had more trial mechs!

You won't believe this but I actually don't gave a toss if I win or lose a match. I play totally for fun, so I don't need an excuse for losing. I was flaming my whole team just before as they were capping the damn base at the start of the game and I was asking them to stop so we could actually fight the enemy. I only care about two things, having fun and new players. I have millions of cbills and nothing to spend them on so am not even bothered about winning and my W/L ratio may as well not exist, I never even check it. I have no doubt tho that it will show a lot more kills than deaths

My biggest concern is for new players, some are being scared away at the moment and this worries me. The game is no fun at all for most of them as they get steamrolled every other game by clan players who can't play unless they have their m8's wiping their arses.

When I was in one of the best Quake 2 clans years ago we had our own server that we opened up to the public between clan games, we never once teamed up against puggers, we always just joined random sides as this made games better. I love fighting good players in any game I play, it's more satisfying but I guess I am old school and the new kids like to win at any cost.

[Zylo]

Mack1, on 12 December 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

You won't believe this but I actually don't gave a toss if I win or lose a match. I play totally for fun, so I don't need an excuse for losing. I was flaming my whole team just before as they were capping the damn base at the start of the game and I was asking them to stop so we could actually fight the enemy. I only care about two things, having fun and new players. I have millions of cbills and nothing to spend them on so am not even bothered about winning and my W/L ratio may as well not exist, I never even check it. I have no doubt tho that it will show a lot more kills than deaths

My biggest concern is for new players, some are being scared away at the moment and this worries me. The game is no fun at all for most of them as they get steamrolled every other game by clan players who can't play unless they have their m8's wiping their arses.

When I was in one of the best Quake 2 clans years ago we had our own server that we opened up to the public between clan games, we never once teamed up against puggers, we always just joined random sides as this made games better. I love fighting good players in any game I play, it's more satisfying but I guess I am old school and the new kids like to win at any cost.

Concern for new players would best be addressed by a new player - trial mechs only matchmaker that only allows solo drops.

Limiting it to trial mechs without any grouping would at least lower the chance of experienced players abusing the system. I think someone else suggested this system with a C-bill cap for the option.

Making a large solo option would still leave these new players exposed to many experienced players who might try to time drops solo to end up having lots of easy targets.

Edited by Zylo, 12 December 2012 - 03:34 PM.

[Greyfyl]

Zylo, on 12 December 2012 - 03:17 PM, said:

You don't think solo players will run into sync-drop players who are using voice comm to time a solo drop into a match in different mechs? I suspect 4 players in voice chat could easily end up in the same game with each taking a different weight class mech, all clicking launch together and having at least a good chance of a few of them ending up in the same game, possibly on the same team. Increase that number to 8 players and this will still be a problem.

Players who are abusing the system now by sync-dropping 2x groups of 4 into random games will still find a way to go after easy targets by abusing any future matchmaking system.

Oh - I agree with you, players will continue to try their best to rig the game to their advantage. My personal opinion is that something as simple as splitting the team based on avg xp/match stat would make a big enough difference until a formal elo type system can be put in place.

But I don't think PGI has the resources to do anything to be honest.

[Wyatt Earp]

Funny how some of us go thru great lengths to try and disprove what others have experienced in this game. It seems many of us just want to throw these differing opinions to the wind and cite some reason why the opposing opinion is wrong. We see that too much on here. Noob problem, boogieman problem, whatever problem, this issue is a problem.

You have to remember that not everyone on here has the opportunity to group up or to use a communication program while playing. It's game, and only a game, and the enjoyment factor will ultimately dictate who plays this thing and who doesn't. No enjoyment=no playing. And the people who feel this is an issue are probably getting no enjoyment.

It's been mentioned before that the fear for some of us is that players will simply leave the game. I can't believe that's what we want here, is it? Surely not.

Bottom line, we need a fix. If not, then this game may end up dealing with a small number of players in the end. How fun would that be?

[Greyfyl]

But Wyatt it is amazing what some players will say to try to ensure their pugstomping ways are allowed to continue.

[Zylo]

Greyfyl, on 12 December 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

But Wyatt it is amazing what some players will say to try to ensure their pugstomping ways are allowed to continue.

Even more amazing are the number of excuses pug players come up with to explain why they didn't win.

Most common excuses I have seen:
1) Pre-made group(s) on the other side.
2) Other team had more ECM.
3) Other team had Streak A1 catapults (less common excuse now).
4) Losing team had AFK farmers.
5) Losing team had more trial mechs.
6) Losing team started on the more difficult map position.


Do I really need to continue?
It's strange that the excuses rarely seen are:
The other team was just made up of better random players.
The other team had better teamwork.

Edited by Zylo, 12 December 2012 - 05:00 PM.

[Horned Bull]

how to fix the situation:

1. only one 4-man group per side (to avoid synch dropping).
2. team-indicator, so people will stop blaming "premades"/"sych dropped premades" for their loses.
3. ELO system.

And suddenly the game is much more enjoyable.

Edited by Korm, 12 December 2012 - 05:07 PM.

[Zylo]

Korm, on 12 December 2012 - 05:02 PM, said:

how to fix the situation:

1. only one 4-man group per side (to avoid synch dropping).
2. team-indicator, so people will stop blaming "premades"/"sych dropped" for their loses.
3. ELO system.

And suddenly the game is much more enjoyable.

This will help because small groups will still need somewhere to drop.

I run small groups most of the time and I'm tired of having to deal with all the pre-made hate due to the actions of those currently exploiting the matchmaker problems to get 2x groups of 4 on the same side.

It should be noted that both small groups and pug players are hurt by the sync-dropping teams. While a 4-player pre-made group + 4 random players can win against 2x 4-player sync-dropped groups it can be difficult only having half the team in voice chat.

[Royal Flush]

Zylo, on 12 December 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

Even more amazing are the number of excuses pug players come up with to explain why they didn't win.

Most common excuses I have seen:
1) Pre-made group(s) on the other side.
2) Other team had more ECM.
3) Other team had Streak A1 catapults (less common excuse now).
4) Losing team had AFK farmers.
5) Losing team had more trial mechs.
6) Losing team started on the more difficult map position.


Do I really need to continue?
It's strange that the excuses rarely seen are:
The other team was just made up of better random players.
The other team had better teamwork.

And as a full time PUG player it is tiresome and disgusting the way pre-made groups constantly defend their positions of continued imbalnce and advantage by ridiculing, berating, and downright bullying anyone that challenges their postion of superiority.

The fact is any pre-made team has a significant advantage in communications and min/maxing their lance with ECM/Missles/Heavy/Light compared to the PUG random generated team.

Give PUG players our own queue and let the pre-mades go fight amongst themselves. I guarantee they will be back with us PUG players quick enough.

[Horned Bull]

Zylo, on 12 December 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

This will help because small groups will still need somewhere to drop.

I run small groups most of the time and I'm tired of having to deal with all the pre-made hate due to the actions of those currently exploiting the matchmaker problems to get 2x groups of 4 on the same side.

It should be noted that both small groups and pug players are hurt by the sync-dropping teams. While a 4-player pre-made group + 4 random players can win against 2x 4-player sync-dropped groups it can be difficult only having half the team in voice chat.

Good pug players are sometimes able to win against a 4-man premade (assuming the other pilots on the premade-team have average skill level). Yes it's true small groups have bigger chance to win, but they aren't gamebreaking.

I really wish to see some kind of group-indicator, so people would stop blaming premades when they just get simply outplayed. Also it would nicely expose all synch-droppers.

[Zylo]

Royal Flush, on 12 December 2012 - 05:15 PM, said:

And as a full time PUG player it is tiresome and disgusting the way pre-made groups constantly defend their positions of continued imbalnce and advantage by ridiculing, berating, and downright bullying anyone that challenges their postion of superiority.

The fact is any pre-made team has a significant advantage in communications and min/maxing their lance with ECM/Missles/Heavy/Light compared to the PUG random generated team.

Give PUG players our own queue and let the pre-mades go fight amongst themselves. I guarantee they will be back with us PUG players quick enough.

Explain to me what is imbalanced by having a single pre-made group on each side. Pre-made group + pug on each side. Only allow a pre-made group into the match if another pre-made group can drop on the other side.

I want a GOOD reason, not some BS pug whining.

Edited by Zylo, 12 December 2012 - 05:25 PM.

[Galenit]

Zylo, on 12 December 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

Even more amazing are the number of excuses pug players come up with to explain why they didn't win.

Even more amazing are the number of excuses premade players come up with to explain why they go puggames:

Most common excuses I have seen:
1) Testing Builds
2) Other team had more ECM.
3) Other team had cheese builds
4) Testing Tactics
5) Not enough players
6) Dont want to play the mech that is needed
7) Easy C-Bills for new Teammates
8) Dont want to play with strangers in group
9) more XP/GXP


I wish PGI would show us there data about pugs and premades.
This will tell us a lot about the future of the game.

Edited by Galenit, 12 December 2012 - 05:29 PM.

[Greyfyl]

Zylo, on 12 December 2012 - 04:58 PM, said:

Even more amazing are the number of excuses pug players come up with to explain why they didn't win.

Most common excuses I have seen:
1) Pre-made group(s) on the other side.
2) Other team had more ECM
3) Other team had Streak A1 catapults (less common excuse now).
4) Losing team had AFK farmers.
5) Losing team had more trial mechs.
6) Losing team started on the more difficult map position.


Do I really need to continue?
It's strange that the excuses rarely seen are:
The other team was just made up of better random players.
The other team had better teamwork.

Out of the 6 'excuses' you listed - 5 of them are valid problems with the current matchmaking system. Problems that could have easily been avoided with a competent team of developers.

What I hear from you is 'please don't take away my easy mode'.

BTW - my win/loss and k/d are just fine as is. I am not blaming my losses on anyone or anything, just stating the obvious fact that experienced 4 man teams with voice comms being placed in a game against all pugs is simply laughable. The fact that people like you keep defending it shows your true colors - you want easy wins, end of story.

[Moonsavage]

1. The only reason premades don't want a pug-only queue is because they like to win - due to their communication advantage.
(don't say that's not an advantage - just look at the NGNG video and the insta-focus fire is a massive advantage over typing.)

2. Are you premade guys so unsure of your skills that you don't want to play against other premades?

[Zylo]

Greyfyl, on 12 December 2012 - 05:27 PM, said:

Out of the 6 'excuses' you listed - 5 of them are valid problems with the current matchmaking system. Problems that could have easily been avoided with a competent team of developers.

What I hear from you is 'please don't take away my easy mode'.

BTW - my win/loss and k/d are just fine as is. I am not blaming my losses on anyone or anything, just stating the obvious fact that experienced 4 man teams with voice comms being placed in a game against all pugs is simply laughable. The fact that people like you keep defending it shows your true colors - you want easy wins, end of story.

I run a small merc corp, when you ******* pay my premium account you can tell me how to play. Until that time you better learn to deal with small groups because we have every right to play this game as a small group.

The only thing showing here is that you can't accept other players are better than you and you blame pre-made groups for your lack of skill.

If there were random matches for groups of 2, 3 or 4 my small groups would be dropping there but the small population of this game will not support that many matchmaking options.