37 replies to this topic

[Soy]

How do you build?

It's a philosophical question, but obviously (and inevitably) manifests in various ways, as seen by the variety of mechs and potential layouts players have.

But it goes deeper than that, and sometimes shallower, for many different reasons.

I'm talking about several things at once, but let me say it in different ways...

Do you have specific stigmas that you build mechs by? For example, "I can't bring myself to zombie an entire arm. I must stick something in there!" etc. etc.

There's more to it than just the mech/build side of things. Lemme explain via another question...

In turn, do you have principles/house rules that you must adhere to even above the mech building? Those that manifest themselves in the way you approach the game and your actual playstyle? For example, "I don't use LRMs, indirect fire is dishonorable!" etc. etc.

When you look at it from a bird's eye perspective I'm sure it's really a study in behavior almost...

...some people hold steadfast to their philosophies and never waver. Like say a guy who wants to play very competitive in this game but will not shelf a pet mech in favor of another, all because they want to retain an aesthetic quality, or a specific weapon, etc...

...then you have other players who are not concerned at all with sentiments, aesthetics, functionality, nothing but straight theory min/maxing. I see a lot of these players on the forums, the ones who are fiddling with their abbacus and tinkering with builds 90% of the time but rarely play...

...some players just want to win and do not care at all what they are using or even give it any slight, they just use what the team needs to win, regardless of whether or not it benefits their individual playstyle, etc...

...so...

These are just a few running thoughts I have about this game, I'm genuinely curious to read any of your thoughts on little quirks you have, min/max 'theories of everything', pet peeves you avoid when it comes to design, stigmas or even superstitions you have.

I don't want this to turn into a "X weapon is better than Y weapon because of Z" or the same thing exact with mechs instead of weapons, but yeah. Just curious to pick any of your brains on thoughts about stigmas, principles, philosophies of building, min/maxing, importance of aesthetics, teamplay vs solo/individuality, meta vs rogue, etc.

[Alcatraz968]

I would like to first start off by saying this post is deep and makes you think.

How do i build? How do i build what is the question really.

I build a battlemech with research and trial and error. I run the off builds and the common builds. I stick to what i am best at regardless if its a common or rare or never seen build.

As for how i build in life. Matter can not be created nor destroyed. So i never truly build, only change.

Edited by Alcatraz968, 11 December 2012 - 03:23 PM.

[Gaeb]

1) I like burst damage over DOT. The DDC SRM18+AC20 punch really appeals to me, as do Gauss and ERPPC's. Lasers, low damage AC's and the LBX I have tried but avoid.
2) I would rather tank than scout or snipe. Go figure, I tanked for a lot of raiding guilds in various games over the last decade
3) I am mindful of balance, but not a pure min maxer. IE - I prefer the AC20 when 2 UAC5's are definitely superior (and arguably Gauss is superior) but I have tried LRM's (used them a lot when they were OP for 2 days since I knew it wouldn't last) and I have ECM mechs, even if I don't play them that much after learning how it works.

Anyhoo. I know what I like, heavy tanky types mixing it up, but it tends to be my job to know how all elements work, so I do the research.

Edited by Gaeb, 11 December 2012 - 02:47 PM.

[Smeghead87]

I tend to look at the mech's default loadout, and then see how I can improve on it to suit my play style.

[One Medic Army]

I like being able to do precision damage, find where another mech is weak and hit him there.
I also like having the maneuverability+armor to retreat when necessary.

I try to always have a variety of weapons installed, and I also try to stay away from the common power builds.

[Funkin Disher]

I like my asthetics (I like the flea of all the light mechs, even though it seems to be the absolute worst light mech to pick from right now), but also symmetry. So I have the paults, jagermech, blackjack and stalker lined up but also use the phract.

I like to brawl at a decent range, so I often start by potshotting and sniping (lending myself to heavy mechs with mid-long range weapons)

I like JJs, or if not then respectable speed.

Always max my armor, with about 20pts in the rear sections.

Like to mix my loadouts, but with similar ranges. Not adverse to boating if need be.

Thus my major builds are a pract with 70km speed, max amor, JJs and 4xLL (only problem is heat occasionally, otherwise my best all-rounder mech) and paults with mixes of PPCs/LLs, AC2s on the K2 and LRM/SRM combos.

I also like to balance DoT and Alpha damage. AC5s, 10s and LL are a good balance for me.

I never run XL engines unless i'm using a light (read: blue moon)

I like my electronics and gadgets. If i can fit ECM or BAP then I will, but not fussed about atermis unless i'm running with my group.

Edited by Kane0, 11 December 2012 - 02:55 PM.

[Cebi]

BIG ENGINES.

...I like responsive mechs

[Agent 0 Fortune]

I start by trying to determine the role I want a particular mech to play (fire supports, scout, sniper, etc).

Based on that role i determine the moment requirements (since the engine is the single heaviest component, I usually start with XL).
Next I apply armor. As a rule of thumb I never drop armor below 85% maximum.
Finally I use a custome heat chart to balance weapons and heat sinks (do I need to fire for 10 seconds at a time, 20 seconds, or more).
Finally, I do the fine tuning this adding things like DHS, Endo, Ferro, standard engine, artemis, beagle, ecm, ams, etc.

[TheCaptainJZ]

In previous games, I preferred lasers and LRMs, but I only played against the AI. Now I am trying different weapons to fit hardpoints. So I go with what I can aim and hit with most effectively. I had a gauss in one mech, and took it out since I kept loosing it after only a couple shots. I replaced it with an LBX-10 after trying various other ACs.

[SirLANsalot]

Rules of Thumb when building/using a mech.

#1: Always use DHS. ALWAYS! Every mech benefits form this upgrade in one way or another. Even the big assaults do, as long as you don't use Endo-steel. The light mechs, and some mediums can get away with using both DHS and endo as they use smaller, less cirt spaced weapons.

#2: Never group torso and arm weapons together, even if they are the same gun, make them two different groups. This is because arms and torsos track independently from one another. As torso tracking is based on your eng rating, and arm tracking is based on how fast you can move your mouse. In older mech games this wasn't the case, but here it is.

#3: Never use Small Lasers. Medium lasers are better in every way and are the best "go to" weapon to use when needing to either use as backup guns or just something to fill that beam slot. SL might be good in TT but this isn't TT we have no dice rolls for uber SL crits that can blow mechs away. Heat difference between the two is minimal at best and using just a little bit of heat management, you can handle it easy.

#4: Go for heat efficiency over total alpha damage, aka DPS. If one can keep shooting while you are cooling down, thats damage your constantly applying while waiting to cool off for a big punch. Example would be the HBK 4P with 9 ML 7 of those ML are on one group (torso) and the other two are on another (arms), the mech is heat neutral when firing just the 2 ML. Meaning the mech loses heat when shooting those two so it can keep damage going down range while waiting to have the heat to handle another big alpha.

#5: Always try to use different weapons between torso and arm. This rule isn't always easy to follow and a great many mechs do break from it, and when they do follow Rule of Thumb #4. Using two different weapon types between torso and arm helps break up the thinking of grouping them together. You don't always want to shoot those LL you have on the arm when firing the ML you have in your toso. So you just use them on two groups, and when you DO want to shoot them together, you just hit both buttons.

#6: Never use the gauss rifle. If you follow the other Rules of Thumb then you will be able to use the other two guns that are better then it, and heat from both will be a non issue (the AC/20 and AC/10). This gun is over wight for its damage and rate of fire. Tonnage you could use elsewhere for either more heat sinks, or bigger beams/more beams or even more ammo for other guns or even a bigger eng rating. Much has to be sacrificed when using the gauss, sacrifices that don't need to be made.


#7: Don't use the LRM5. Always try and use the LRM 10 or better when building a LRM based mech. Reason for this is because the LRM 5 will not make it through an AMS system, as AMS takes out about 5 missiles when they are fired at it. Example would be an LRM 20 being fired at a mech that has AMS, only 15 of those missiles will hit the target, and if he has friends nearby with AMS, even fewer will hit.


Those are the top 7 rules I use when building my mechs. I get a lot of kills and a lot of damage in games because of them, and using good skill to land shots always goes without saying. Some of them are controversial, but all of them ring true.

[Mercules]

In any game I play I tend to be the person who likes to play the "trouble shooter" role. What I mean by this is the role where I have a tool to try and help out the group in many different ways.

Examples: The character in an MMO that can deal damage but also heal or cure status effects. Sometimes I am the "mezzer" of the group that might also have a pet that can "Off Tank" or something similar. Rift is an MMO I played recently where I was a Chloromancer for the most part. I had a couple different builds but all of them had Chloromancer as the base. Why? because the Chloromancer does healing and damage filling two roles. Did I do as much damage as a more dedicated DPS mage? No, did I do as much healing as a healing specced Cleric? No. Could I do both well and at the same time? Yes. My other builds that I could switch into between battles had a Tank pet for solo/duoing as well as a bit more DPS.


So what sort of mechs do I tend to build? Very much the same sort of thing. I do not want to be so specialized that I am crippled against X or Y while I dominate Z. I would rather be able to deal with X, Y, and Z.

I have a Centurion that has LRMs, SRMs, Medium Lasers, and an UAC 5. I have indirect fire, direct fire, and "burst damage" I can engage at any range well and enough speed to take advantage of that fact. In other words, while I can't run down a Light I can light him up close or LRM him at range. My UAC 5 has solid range on it, but is fast enough to pound something in a brawl. If they arm me I still have SRMs and Lasers.

I build most of my mechs this way with a mix of ranges and sometimes a mix of weapons so that I am firing weapons T, U, V at Medium to long range, and V, W, X up close with Y saved for emergencies. An alpha would put me into serious heat but I only use a portion of my weapons at a given time.

My friend does something similar with his Founder's Atlas which keeps the LRM 20 so that he has "something" to fire while he moves into brawling range. That and the AC 20 are basically fired in very different situations so he saves a bit on heat.

I have problems running mechs that have one specific use such as an Indirect Fire Support mech that is almost helpless up close or relies too much on one weapon system like the A1 Streakapult. Heck I can't bring myself to not have an energy backup weapon "Just in case".

[JokerVictor]

One Medic Army, on 11 December 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

I like being able to do precision damage, find where another mech is weak and hit him there.
I also like having the maneuverability+armor to retreat when necessary.

I try to always have a variety of weapons installed, and I also try to stay away from the common power builds.

Very similar to what One Medic Army said. I prefer big punchy precision guns and a variety of them. To that end, my baby is a CTF-3D with an AC10 and a ERPPC and a couple small lasers as back up. I will always mount jump jets if I can as well, that's a huge edge in brawling capability. I try to design for maximum versatility, so I can exploit my targets weaknesses if they have any glaring ones.

I don't really see the problem people are having with ECM equipped lights either, I just aim for the legs, amazing how fast and easy it is to remove them if you don't use sh*tty DOT lasers.

[phat]

My philosophy is to try and work out a mech build that uses all hardpoints effectively in a particular role and therefore use the full potential of the mech variant. The choice of upgrades DHS, ENDO, FF etc flow into this.

BTW there are definitely exceptions to this with some speciality builds but even then good speciality builds are using a particular Mech variant effectively.

[Pygar]

I like to have a good balance of long range and short range weapons, and prefer if my long range ones can also be used in close. I also prefer having multiple medium damage/ medium ROF weapons as opposed to "putting all my eggs in one basket" with really big guns like AC/20 or Guass. I don't exactly do "Zombie" limbs on purpose, but I do bear in mind which limbs are more critical or expendable with the same idea in mind, and in turn I like to keep weapons and ammo spread out across locations so that losing just one leave doesn't leave me entirely unable to fight back.

[FrozenAnt]

As far as online goes, if you don't look good killing things, questing, or doing whatever, then there is no point! Style is #1 for me, since I am the one who has the stare at the screen the whole time...

After that I tend to favor speed over armor, I guess since I am a short guy I never had the brute force advantage.

I'll go for support skills or situation things more than the cookie cutter results. I usually game alone, but when I do game with friends the best memories are always made "Do you remember that 1 time...." Not, oh yeah like every night where we pwnzors the nubzors."

Lastly I don't like hiding behind things, I'd rather be in the fight.

For MWO this has lead me to favor the medium classes, mostly the Cent, for it's " No arms and 1 leg and iIm still in your face!"Although I'll still do the Raven because as I said before style is #1 and as far as I'm concerned, the Raven is a smooth looking ride.

[Taizan]

I build to be a "jack of two trades", i.e having long range and close range without too many concessions. What I do not like when doing a build is really being a one trick pony or be defined in a role that would put me into some kind of set class like "sniper" "brawler" "support" etc. this is not an RPG, its Mechwarrior and imo every pilot should be able to adapt to changing situations on the battlefield. Not being able to adapt is imo a liability..

[Deadoon]

I like a good mid range assortment, with some devastating close range support on my heavier mechs, while on my lighter mechs I usually stick with mid range only weapons.

My atlas uses 2 ac/5 3 ssrm2 and 2 med lasers with enough doubles to fill everything and enough ammo that running out is a fantasy. the med lasers are mostly back up weapons though. A commando is usually dead in 2-3 barrages of ssrm and even most other atlas builds cannot keep up with the dps of the dual ac/5 pounding their torso/ center. I used to be running with 2 ac/2 but they have been firing slower recently and I did notably less damage with them after the ecm update.

I rarely dabble into long range builds except for certain circumstances.

Edited by Deadoon, 11 December 2012 - 04:49 PM.

[Biglead]

Symmetry! The OCD side of me has to balance weapons on both sides of the mech so if you cut the mech down the middle it would be the same on both sides. When the Hunchback II-c arrives I'll feel as if a weight has been lifted off my shoulders. Don't get me wrong I love the Hunchback, but that insessant scratching in my brain will leave after I get two AC20's and 2 medium lasers.

[Garth Erlam]

I need speed, armour, and a heavy alpha punch. I MUCH prefer weapons in the arms - which is amusing when using a CDA-2A. Even in games where they've been excellent, I dislike ballistic weapons. For some reason I cannot fathom using guns that require ammunition in a time when we have lasers. Logistical train - zero!

Also, I need digitigrade "chicken walker" legs. I just do - they're more realistic and let me sit lower.

[Voidsinger]

To me, every mech is a scout! (yes, even Atlases)

I build for feel. Some mechs I just don't like the feel when I'm piloting.

First thing I do when I get a mech is install DHS and Endosteel (unless it's going to be a hotbox)

I also tend to like a great deal of heat control. Looking more at SRMs, because I really hope for Streak Nerfing to original purpose, and hate being a hypocrit.

Yes, I favour ECM for all who want it.