27 replies to this topic

[Valder]

The Devs have a (large) lineup of equipment slated to come out to rock, paper, scissors each other. Things that are happening now are NOT in any way going to be the experience 30 days from now... and that won't be the experience 60 days from now. They're testing the balance of it all and working with a heck of a lot more puzzle pieces in there testing chambers than we currently are in Open Beta. So if you're upset about balancing issues right now, go outside and take a walk or pick up a wood carving hobby for a little while.

The current state of gameplay and balance is NOT the experience we will have in the final product. They know balancing is a little off keel, because they're developing the other parts of the balances to add in already, and have been the whole time.

For example, ECM is going to be a different matter all together in the future, not including any numbers tweaking on the ECM itself, based off of what the devs have already released plans on including. Things like 750 meter TAGs will allow missile boats to self-spot for themselves pretty well. There's AOE mech-mounted and off-map support coming. How much of the enemy team is going to want to stand under that DDC's umbrella of ECM when artillery is called in to that location? Narc is going to be getting an overhaul to (maybe) be useful as well. And that's just stuff I know about off the top of my head and doesn't include stuff they're not talking about yet.

Another example, knockdown has been pulled to address issues with the underlying programming it operates on, so that the core can be rewritten, and then the knockdown rewritten on top of that. Lights are pretty tough right now due to netcode. But knockdown is coming, netcode fixes or no netcode fixes, and ALL scouts will rue the day it gets put back in. It's on the way. They need time to finish it. Your tears, however amusing, will not make it go faster or smoother.

All of these puzzle pieces are big game changers. Their testing is constantly changing how the devs want to go about implementing stuff, so they don't say a lot about it all because this forum community goes all "OMG THAT'S NOT WHUT WE WERE EXSPECTING WTF YOU GUYS ARE STOOPID GIV ME REFUNDZ!!! OMG PATCH STUFF IS 2 DAYS LATE OYUU GUYZ TERRIBLE WHO LET YOU OUT OF CAGES???" when things aren't released exactly as expected.

Yes, they're taking our money to be able to continue development, show it off as a viable product, hire new faces, and buy hookers. But the money or no money doesn't have anything to do with it being a beta. It's a beta (or alpha in some people's minds) because the core of the game is still being added, and it will play nothing like it does right now in a month, just like it played completely different a month ago. And completely different a month before that. The fact that we're paying money doesn't really change that. Hell, I dumped $40 into Star Citizen a few weeks ago. They raised something like $9 million. Does that mean that it's also not a beta? (It's not even an alpha until Dec 2013 btw). And guess what? I can go in and buy more ships in that game, for real money, and the ships aren't even coded yet!

Personally, I love playing this game as it goes thru waves of equipment, and I fancy myself to be included among some of the top skill game players. Each wave where something gets stronger lets you learn how weak it can be in other ways and is amplified while it lacks a proper rock to it's scissors. I learned how to kill streak cats very well while they were at their height. The same with gauss cats. The same with LRM boats. The same with everything that gets ran as 'cheese' builds. The current DDC heavy 8 man builds have some glaring weaknesses that are fun and easy to exploit with a few skilled teammates that makes that build laughable.

Instead of raging, demanding refunds (for a product you volunteered to help fund blindly with no gun to your head), demanding nerfs on EVERYTHING including COMMANDOS, threatening to quit, and being a general downer... just chill. No one wants to read your tears. Yes, sometimes things need pointed out and hotfixed, like UAC's perma jamming and Artemis head-shotting everything in 2 salvos. But dear god... commandos will never need nerfed. They were born nerfed. If you can't handle the state of things and are not having fun, just go do something else for a bit and stop back by sometime! I'll be glad to see you back again, and who knows... maybe I'll show you a couple tricks I learned about how to kill something you're having problems with. However, if you just rage, make demands, cry, and the like... not only does no one want to help you, no one cares about you anymore because you just can't handle life here.

<3's for everyone.

[PurpleNinja]

TL,DR.

[Valder]

PurpleNinja, on 12 December 2012 - 03:05 AM, said:

TL,DR.

Me too =(

[zverofaust]

I'm more concerned with the overall metadesign of the game than the dynamics of various in-game equipment. I'm much more interested in what PGI is going to do about the fact that I find it incredibly unfun and unsatisfying spending 30 hours in an uncustomizable, overheating piece of **** with legs before I can actually get access to the majority of the game.

[Elizander]

I didn't read all of it but I guess I kinda get what you mean.

[Apoc1138]

TLDR: the game is beta and most of the things people complain about are already listed as being worked on (new maps, new modes, new equipment and items to counter the OHMAGERD items that are in the game now)

+1 OP

Edited by Apoc1138, 12 December 2012 - 03:14 AM.

[Valder]

zverofaust, on 12 December 2012 - 03:10 AM, said:

I'm more concerned with the overall metadesign of the game than the dynamics of various in-game equipment. I'm much more interested in what PGI is going to do about the fact that I find it incredibly unfun and unsatisfying spending 30 hours in an uncustomizable, overheating piece of **** with legs before I can actually get access to the majority of the game.

Yeah, the grind isn't as fun as it could be. However, if you buy premium for a single month, you will notice that your cash flow dramatically increases and you will probably have all the mechs you want by the time that month is over. You like the game enough to spend 30 hours in it? Maybe throw a couple bucks at it. And alleviate the grind at the same time.

[Elizander]

If you're grinding trials right now pilot nothing but the HBK-4J unless you are godlike with the other mechs and set everything to single fire. Everything. And mash that Small Laser as your heat dissipation filler and get range to chuck LRMs if you're not focused.

[anonymous175]

I also did not read the above.

But I agree with some of it and disagree with other parts of it.

[OVBlueGhost]

tldr; don't complain about balance when the devs plan rock/paper/scissors and haven't implemented rock yet.

My reply:

What rock are you expecting? As far as I know the only remaining major gameplay feature is indirect fire artillery. This isn't going to change the only balance complaints I have:-
1) The low weight/slot cost of ecm along with it being rock which requires rock to counter.
2) ECM removing friendies from radar giving voice coms a stealth buff (even with ingame voice many people will not use it btw).

Given the devs reported surprise at streak cats in the hunt-the-devs event I'm thinking they need some complaining on the forums to help identify ****. Not helped by the highly vocal minority who keep spamming away that things are balanced because they want to keep abusing them.

[Valder]

OVBlueGhost, on 12 December 2012 - 04:37 AM, said:

tldr; don't complain about balance when the devs plan rock/paper/scissors and haven't implemented rock yet.

My reply:

What rock are you expecting? As far as I know the only remaining major gameplay feature is indirect fire artillery. This isn't going to change the only balance complaints I have:-
1) The low weight/slot cost of ecm along with it being rock which requires rock to counter.
2) ECM removing friendies from radar giving voice coms a stealth buff (even with ingame voice many people will not use it btw).

Given the devs reported surprise at streak cats in the hunt-the-devs event I'm thinking they need some complaining on the forums to help identify ****. Not helped by the highly vocal minority who keep spamming away that things are balanced because they want to keep abusing them.

1) Maybe we should wait and see what's coming out that we don't know about yet.
2) If the game is too hard for you right now, maybe you should take a break until more balancing features are implemented.
3) If you want to play competitively you need to use voip, period. Matches without voip is like chess where you can't get your pieces where you need them because you have to type a descriptive text message to each one to get it to move, but your clock is out of time. They should never mess with cutting you off from chat, imo, but that's it. Because then no one will have anything 'buff' related to complain about. When your under enemy ECM you should be able to type, just like voipers can voip. Same with powered down.

[Grimnir79]

What he said. :-)

[Thorn Hallis]

I read it all and I have to agree.

Sadly, 10 years ago this would have been common sense.

[Taryys]

Well said Valder!!

+1000

[Dakkath]

I am just looking forward to bringing my Madcat to the party. B00m B00m goes the LRM20's.

[GalaxyBluestar]

hope so man i hope so.

[Solis Obscuri]

zverofaust, on 12 December 2012 - 03:10 AM, said:

I'm more concerned with the overall metadesign of the game than the dynamics of various in-game equipment. I'm much more interested in what PGI is going to do about the fact that I find it incredibly unfun and unsatisfying spending 30 hours in an uncustomizable, overheating piece of **** with legs before I can actually get access to the majority of the game.

"Metagame" means "alpha-striking a lot without heat management" in Bizarro-world?

[slide]

This game is more like

rock, paper, scissors, lizard, spock, along with a dinosaur, a fluffy pink bunny and a strange green alien.

Half the fun is tying to figure out what works, which they then change and you start all over. And just to make it even more interesting they make the alien blue.

[OVBlueGhost]

Valder, on 12 December 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

1) Maybe we should wait and see what's coming out that we don't know about yet.
2) If the game is too hard for you right now, maybe you should take a break until more balancing features are implemented.
3) If you want to play competitively you need to use voip, period. Matches without voip is like chess where you can't get your pieces where you need them because you have to type a descriptive text message to each one to get it to move, but your clock is out of time. They should never mess with cutting you off from chat, imo, but that's it. Because then no one will have anything 'buff' related to complain about. When your under enemy ECM you should be able to type, just like voipers can voip. Same with powered down.

*Sigh* why does everyone assume I'm complaining because I'm getting 'owned'. My KDR is around 3.0 - 3.1 (depends if I'm running a dps variant or something with a big alpha). Most of my play is 4 man drops on voice where we win I would guess 60-80% of our games, sometimes it feels like we win every game until we stop bringing our op variants (splat-paults, ECM ravens etc). My main issue with ECM is it makes our 4 man drops too effective. It also leaves me with less variety of mechs to play, why play anything but the A1 splat or DC Atlas? We have run 4 man tag + lrm drops which are fun but it requires everyone to pick mechs intending to break the current meta which shouldn't be necessary.

1) I do not think wait and see whilst giving no feedback is a good idea, the devs don't seem to be very good at play testing their own game (see surprise at streak kitties, failing to notice the lrm flight path change, now ECM) the devs need input from players to know what's broken.

I'm also not sure what they could bring in that will help with ECM removing all friendly radar, in game voice will fix it for those who use it, but I also play dota2 (A harder game which easily requires more team coordination than mwo) dota2 has very good in game voice, almost as good as a 3rd party app. Lots of pugs still don't bloody use it! I see no reason mwo will be any different, most pugs will never use voice, the game must strive to approach balanced without it.

Yes the game should be mainly balanced around 8v8 or 12v12 competative play with voice, but it must have something approaching balance for random pugs or it won't have enough players to support the f2p.

This means some in game information sharing need to be sacrosanct, namely in game text all the time, friendly radar and friendly 'q' damage readings when you're powered up. Even then ECM will be a no-brainer if you can run it you will run it, 1.5 tonnes + 1 slot is nothing on an atlas. Giving you: Streak immunity, partial LRM shield, making you harder to scout and stil making you more effective in a brawl via removing from enemy radar.

[Sifright]

I love that people are wanting us to view the game as it's 'going' to be in 5-6 months rather than the state it's in now.

When you people see a fat person do you see them as they are 6 months down the line after their diet and exercise regime they plan to follow? Or do you make an instinctive judgment (perhaps unfairly!) and think what a fat bastar....

To expect people to ignore the objective state of the game currently and go tralalala everything will be great "SOON!tm"

What is with people, and accepting a ****** objective reality as long as some one spouts long words at them and promises jam tomorrow? |: