27 replies to this topic

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

No one wants to read your tears about their tears.

[MustrumRidcully]

Solis Obscuri, on 12 December 2012 - 04:38 PM, said:

"Metagame" means "alpha-striking a lot without heat management" in Bizarro-world?

Not sure what you mean, he's talking about metadesign.

One of the below approaches is an analogy for MW:O's approach to teaching the game:
1) Father A teaches his kid to ride a bike with a kid's bike, on his own property, and with training wheels. He then drives together with the kid up and down the street, eventually takes a longer tour, and then takes the training wheels off...
2) Father B teaches his kid to ride a bike by putting it out in the middle of traffic with its bike and saying it should be home by 6 or there will be no dinner for it, before driving away in his sports car.



ANd yes, I think "alpha strike, all the time" is an okay way to start your gaming experience in Battletech. A build that can alpha strike in MW:O is either a Gaussapult (not stock), or undergunned, so once the player will see other mech pilots that "overclock" their machines to be hotter performing better, he will want to customize his mech accordingly.
Of course, I'd prefer if the game was "everything is set to chain fire" assuming the stock mechs don't receive any miracelous improvements.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 13 December 2012 - 05:47 AM.

[Khobai]

Rock, paper, scissors is not a fun game. There is no strategy in RPS, it is simply a contest of luck which is the antithesis of fun. That is why no game designer should use RPS model as a game design principle.

When it comes to game design, soft counters are almost always better than hard counters, because it makes player skill more of a factor. Whereas hard counters can overcome even the highest level of skill just by virtue of being hard counters.

So lets talk about how this applies to MWO... well right now ECM is a hard counter for streaks and just wont let you fire them at all. But lets say ECM just turned streaks into regular srm2s instead? That would make ECM a soft counter to streaks and a skilled player could still fire tham as regular srm2s and do damage.

Edited by Khobai, 13 December 2012 - 06:46 AM.

[OVBlueGhost]

Khobai, on 13 December 2012 - 06:40 AM, said:

Rock, paper, scissors is not a fun game. There is no strategy in RPS, it is simply a contest of luck which is the antithesis of fun. That is why no game designer should use RPS model as a game design principle.

When it comes to game design, soft counters are almost always better than hard counters, because it makes player skill more of a factor. Whereas hard counters can overcome even the highest level of skill just by virtue of being hard counters.

So lets talk about how this applies to MWO... well right now ECM is a hard counter for streaks and just wont let you fire them at all. But lets say ECM just turned streaks into regular srm2s instead? That would make ECM a soft counter to streaks and a skilled player could still fire tham as regular srm2s and do damage.

Yeah +1 to soft counters but the 'theory' of rps in game design is more that rock should be countered by something other than rock to give players a difficult decision. This is another of the problems with ECM its biggest counter is more ECM.

Still apparently they're going to put in more features that we don't know about so super-bap or some module slots will fix it and we can all stop complaining or talking about anything other than how great and perfect MWO is </sarcasm>

[QuantumButler]

You can only consider balance against what is already in game, you can't say "oh X being broken and useless/stupidly overpowered is fine because eventually at some time in the future they will introduce Y to counter it/make it useful!"

This is just lazy and makes people angry until Y is implemented.

you can only judge something objectively based on what it is now, not what it may magically become at some future date.

Edited by QuantumButler, 13 December 2012 - 07:02 AM.

[Taizan]

The whole rock/paper/scissers thing is ok for me, the thing is the way they are implementing one after another or adapting them gradually really gets some impatient and short-sighted people all up in arms. Some people play the game for some 12 weeks and then comes another of the RPS buffs or nerfs and they completely go berzerk.

[Kaldor]

Valder, on 12 December 2012 - 02:58 AM, said:

and buy hookers.

What about blow? Dont these 2 things go together?

[AlanEsh]

Valder, on 12 December 2012 - 02:58 AM, said:

blah

Or, since this game has been released and only carries the Open Beta moniker to give PGI some CYA, we can behave like paying customers and post our complaints when the product takes a nose dive in quality.

If my B'Bop's burger sucks, the manager gets a complaint. If it sucks again, they get a more heated complaint. If it sucks yet again, I'm off to Zombie Burger.

Many of us are in stage 2 of the "customer feedback" procedure.