86 replies to this topic

[Kobura]

So, Gausscats. AC20cats, Gauss-Illyas, Gauss/ECM/SRM18 D-DCs. Focus-fire them, right?...so, focus-fire the entire team?

Just had a match with an AC20cat, one aforementioned D-DC, no less than two Gausscats, a dual-Gauss Illyas... a smattering of other ECM mechs.

What is someone supposed to do? Yes, it was 8v8. No, our team doesn't want to resort to this sort of un-funnery. If the game is going to become ultra-meta Gausswarrior Online, we're going to go back to small groups!...I'm certainly not spending any money on the game right now (mostly due to finances not related to the game), but I know that...oh, what three of ours are already 'not spending a dime on this' until the issues, technical and balance alike, are solved.

We have had some games, for instance losing to the Blazing Aces, or *edit* our battle with, and hard-fought victory against, Clan Wolverine...which were stunning! Excellent orchestration, good force balancing or just better piloting, no matter the cause, we as a team and on an individual basis didn't feel as though we were being drowned in Munster and Limburger and Stilton. This last one... yea, it was like a sneaker being held under my nose, how strong the meta was with this one.

The meat of my post is this: Will the game always be meta? Is there always going to be "the best force composition"? Should our crew just back out now, or is there rebalancing to be done? This is a legitimate question, we're not necessarily complaining, but we DO want to know if the creative and gameplay direction of MWO is going to end in a place that we want to keep playing.

Edited by Kobura, 06 December 2012 - 08:38 PM.

[Stone Wall]

Well those mechs you mentioned have weaknesses. Range and heat are two major weaknesses.

[Xenophontis]

How are any of those cheese builds?

[Codejack]

Well, there's always my suggested solution:

PvE!

[One Medic Army]

These days Gauss should loose out to a laser mech with reasonably high alpha (Hunch-P for instance) that can close.
Just mentioning, all of those mechs (the gauss Catapult and it's tiny side torsos aside) are bombs waiting to explode once their armor's been stripped, which a good hunch-P can manage in 1-2 alpha strikes.

Of course I wouldn't want to face them if they chose to defend on Caustic though, but the other maps have lots of cover.

Edited by One Medic Army, 06 December 2012 - 07:24 PM.

[Kaspirikay]

Stone Wall, on 06 December 2012 - 07:18 PM, said:

Well those mechs you mentioned have weaknesses. Range and heat are two major weaknesses.

Not when its 4 DDC with SRM 6.

Then you need ecm commandos

[SinnerX]

Yes, you focus fire the ENTIRE team. I know it's tricky, but the key is waiting for one mech to die before shooting another.

Or you just come here and complain about it. Up to you, I guess.

[Riffleman]

Kobura, on 06 December 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

So, Gausscats. AC20cats, Gauss-Illyas, Gauss/ECM/SRM18 D-DCs. Focus-fire them, right?...so, focus-fire the entire team?

Just had a match with an AC20cat, one aforementioned D-DC, no less than two Gausscats, a dual-Gauss Illyas... a smattering of other ECM mechs.

What is someone supposed to do? Yes, it was 8v8. No, our team doesn't want to resort to this sort of un-funnery. If the game is going to become ultra-meta Gausswarrior Online, we're going to go back to small groups!...I'm certainly not spending any money on the game right now (mostly due to finances not related to the game), but I know that...oh, what three of ours are already 'not spending a dime on this' until the issues, technical and balance alike, are solved.

We have had some games, for instance losing to the Blazing Aces, or Clan Wolverine...which were stunning! Excellent orchestration, good force balancing or just better piloting, no matter the cause, we as a team and on an individual basis didn't feel as though we were being drowned in Munster and Limburger and Stilton. This last one... yea, it was like a sneaker being held under my nose, how strong the meta was with this one.

The meat of my post is this: Will the game always be meta? Is there always going to be "the best force composition"? Should our crew just back out now, or is there rebalancing to be done? This is a legitimate question, we're not necessarily complaining, but we DO want to know if the creative and gameplay direction of MWO is going to end in a place that we want to keep playing.

Sure jump on the bandwagon. Half the groups that were praising the team matches like the coming of the messiah are back cheeze stomping in 4 mans vs pugs already.

Im sorry but there shoulnt even BE the option to drop with 4 unless its GUARANTEED the other side has the same. Half the bad teams quit and the pug players have to pay the price.

[Vermaxx]

Kobura, on 06 December 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

The meat of my post is this: Will the game always be meta? Is there always going to be "the best force composition"? Should our crew just back out now, or is there rebalancing to be done? This is a legitimate question, we're not necessarily complaining, but we DO want to know if the creative and gameplay direction of MWO is going to end in a place that we want to keep playing.

Well since very few people here are being objective, just insulting your play skill, I will take a crack at it.

Yes. There will always be teams composed of the most optimized builds possible. I do not define anything you just described as "cheese" though - if you don't like optimization, then go back to "stock only" tabletop or MW4 with stocks. Most of the mechs you described are simply recreations of other mechs that don't exist yet. Hell, the Clan Hunchback II has two UAC20, so it can spit 40 AC20 shots at you in one go. AND it's a 50 ton mech. With jump jets.

There will always be teams who 'play to win' over 'play to savor the flavor.' I'm sure you like winning, but clearly you go about it in a different way. There is no way to separate an "esports" game out from "min maxing" because the two go hand in hand.

Some teams win with stellar players and amazing tactics. Some win with the most optimized builds and mob tactics. Both scenarios generate wins, both appeal to a certain group, and both will be popular. If you don't ever want to face teams composed of the 'flavor of the month club' and ONLY those builds, then this probably isn't the game you thought it was.

At least the 8 man queue isn't. But then I highly doubt that the current matchmaking system will be anything like community warfare, so you may want to try again in six months instead of just writing off the game.

[UnofficialOperator]

Well a bunch of us random players (not even a Clan) formed a premade on the EU TS & faced a premade of "Squawkers" who had that setup of gauss cataphracts, cats, atlas ddc etc & we won via the strength of our 2 scouts working in tandem (dual ECM) & good LRMs (Yes LRM fire support surprise!) from our LRM guy (I think we only had 1). That plus the opposition were too overconfident, they rushed in & we had some good calling of targets & focus firing.

Edited by Reign Of Courage, 06 December 2012 - 07:32 PM.

[Gaeb]

Kaspirikay, on 06 December 2012 - 07:24 PM, said:

Not when its 4 DDC with SRM 6.

Did line of sight stop working? I'm no accomplished sniper but I was hitting Gausscats at 1200m with my 4X's UAC's. An Atlas is a much easier target.

[Kobura]

I'm mostly looking for feedback from someone with a pulse on the designers' intent on whether different INTELLIGENTLY-designed builds will ever be able to keep their niche without keeping all the niches.

Swayback with 5ERPPC? Not supposed to be viable. But a turtleteam of all Gauss and all AC20 with extraordinary numbers of ECM?... all the niches are covered with those three things in bulk. Come on.

[Stone Wall]

Reign Of Courage, on 06 December 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:

Well a bunch of us random players (not even a Clan) formed a premade on the EU TS & faced a premade of "Squawkers" who had that setup of gauss cataphracts, cats, atlas ddc etc & we won via the strength of our 2 scouts working in tandem (dual ECM) & good LRMs (Yes LRM fire support surprise!) from our LRM guy (I think we only had 1). That plus the opposition were too overconfident, they rushed in & we had some good calling of targets & focus firing.

I call hacks

[Xenophontis]

Reign Of Courage, on 06 December 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:

Well a bunch of us random players (not even a Clan) formed a premade on the EU TS & faced a premade of "Squawkers" who had that setup of gauss cataphracts, cats, atlas ddc etc & we won via the strength of our 2 scouts working in tandem (dual ECM) & good LRMs (Yes LRM fire support surprise!) from our LRM guy (I think we only had 1). That plus the opposition were too overconfident, they rushed in & we had some good calling of targets & focus firing.

Wait you joined a group without being in a clan?? And you used team work?? And beat a team with ECM?? And used LRMs?? DO YOU PLAY THE SAME GAME AS EVERYONE ELSE ON THIS FORUM!?!?

Sarcastic rant over.

[Stone Wall]

Xenophontis, on 06 December 2012 - 07:35 PM, said:

Wait you joined a group without being in a clan?? And you used team work?? And beat a team with ECM?? And used LRMs?? DO YOU PLAY THE SAME GAME AS EVERYONE ELSE ON THIS FORUM!?!?

Sarcastic rant over.

is there even a way to talk to team mates?

[Kaijin]

Kobura, on 06 December 2012 - 07:14 PM, said:

The meat of my post is this: Will the game always be meta? Is there always going to be "the best force composition"? Should our crew just back out now, or is there rebalancing to be done? This is a legitimate question, we're not necessarily complaining, but we DO want to know if the creative and gameplay direction of MWO is going to end in a place that we want to keep playing.

I've been thinking along the same lines. What we've got now is Solaris VII Online. The massive mech customization allowed is very much in line with arena mechs, but not at all with battle mechs, which were stock variants with at most 2 deviations (and if I'm honest, those that were so modified were 'hero' mechs. Are we all heroes?) Game balance would be so much easier if customization was limited, and the role aspect of community warfare would be better defined. Keep Solaris on Solaris, giving us reasons in the CW aspect of the game to run other than the FOTM (which wouldn't be the FOTM anymore because it would only exist on Solaris VII).

Edited by Kaijin, 06 December 2012 - 07:40 PM.

[Yigyam]

8v8 won't have unrestricted weights forever. New game modes might require some extra speed. Just be patient. These things come in waves.

[AC]

The problem with what we have now is that PGI keeps trying to balance the weapons when the issue is the mechs themselves. Gausscats, AC20Cats, SHOULD NOT EXIST. That mech was designed for 2PPC, and NO ONE runs it with PPC. They need to figure out a new slot system.

[Irreverence]

It's really not that hard if you have a good team.

[Malekhai]

I hadn't expected to see the Clan Wolverine name in the forums. If I remember your group correctly you and your team played very good. Our exact lineup was a Jenner, cat a1 streak, ac/20 cat, gauss cat, ddc atlas, raven, gauss Ilya, and a LRM atlas I believe.