383 replies to this topic

[Tickdoff Tank]

The MG is supposed to fill the same role as the small laser, that of "filler weapon" with low range, low damage. The small laser does more damage, and more heat for less weight and space. The MG gets less damage and no heat, but is ammo limited.

Why should mechs with extra laser hardpoints get the advantage of using a few extra small lasers while the ballistic mechs do not get to use a filler weapon? The Dragon 5N and the YLW are prime examples of this. I would *love* to put 2 MGs on those mechs to work with the big guns, but to do that the MG must be useful.

If the MG does 0.8-1.0 DPS (I think 0.9 would be good), weighs 0.5 tons +ammo, is short range and ammo limited, then it would be a useful (but no where near OP) weapon.

[Orzorn]

Tickdoff Tank, on 12 December 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:

The MG is supposed to fill the same role as the small laser, that of "filler weapon" with low range, low damage. The small laser does more damage, and more heat for less weight and space. The MG gets less damage and no heat, but is ammo limited.

Why should mechs with extra laser hardpoints get the advantage of using a few extra small lasers while the ballistic mechs do not get to use a filler weapon? The Dragon 5N and the YLW are prime examples of this. I would *love* to put 2 MGs on those mechs to work with the big guns, but to do that the MG must be useful.

If the MG does 0.8-1.0 DPS (I think 0.9 would be good), weighs 0.5 tons +ammo, is short range and ammo limited, then it would be a useful (but no where near OP) weapon.

Basically this. My Hunchback 4G craves for 2 machine guns to go with its AC/20. I'd use a half ton of ammo, probably.

Oh yeah, but we need half tons of machine gun ammo, first.

[Liberty]

Not only that but for the small lasers you don't have to buy case or a ton of ammo. And.... considering the number of rounds needed to actually do any -real- damage you actually need more than one ton of ammo. Not that they'd stand still long enough where you would have a chance to go through all that ammo. There is also the risk factor. I don't think small lasers crit and blow off half your torso.

[MechFrog1]

Franklen Avignon, on 12 December 2012 - 06:25 PM, said:

Good point.

Except that I talked about all the coming weapons before.

Your sarcasm add so much. Thank you.



So, strip your machine guns (like every one else does) and fit more useful equipment than anti-infantry weapons. Problem solved!

So you want the machine guns removed from MWO?

[Asmosis]

Franklen Avignon, on 12 December 2012 - 01:33 PM, said:

Considering that armored fighting vehicles were specifically designed to defeat machine guns in trench warfare, I think I know what I'm talking about.

Oh, and let's look at BT lore MGs. Two points of damage to armored vehicles, MASSIVE BUFF AGAINST INFANTRY.

its not currently doing 2 points of damage (i.e. same damage as ac/2).

[Tickdoff Tank]

The fact that an MG gains a bonus to infantry does not mean that it should be useless against mechs. Usefullness against a mech is the basic functionality of the weapon, it is just better at killing infantry.

[Utilyan]

PEOPLE.....PEOPLE......PEOPLE.......

There is a perfectly good reason as to why machine guns were nerfed from the beginning............And that reason is dangerous pilots like ME!

I love machine guns, I love my cicada C 4mgs and a flamer....... to give MG a buff is to court death!



If they buff MGs I predict it will last only 2 days. Cause its gonna be OP. It will open the legendary can of whip cream.
Day one will be a horrific carnage, day 2 everyone is gonna show up with a cicada-3c.

And then some WHINER is gonna be like lets just get rid of mgs and flamers cause its not my taste of getting my butt handed over this way. You know that upity elitist whiner im talking about. Fellah who memorized his k/d ratio.



I suggest if your gonna buff it do it only for against unarmored. Or make longer range......or more ammo per ton.....

Example if a mech has lost his outer shell/armor, maybe MG ought to be the grand master vs unarmored.

If my mech has lost his head armor shell (you know that outline) and someone shoots mg at my mech's head.......maybe I should be in deep poop.


Personally i'd leave it alone. See we MASTER mech pilots need to have fun too. Flamers and MGs is where vets go when they are done with thier god-mode mech spree.

Its like a new challenge a whole new game. MG/flamer kills is very gratifying.


I LOVE mgs just the way they are.

I rather have longer range MG then higher damage.


MG and Flamers are like JEDI weapons........your not ready for it......it requires decades of ninja training!

If you went to a fight where everyone showed up with only mgs and flamers........you would witness the most epic mechwarrior fight of all.


Have mercy on your fellow pilots........do not buff MGs. Think of the noobies!

[Kobura]

Did you seriously start a thread solely to ***** about an experimental balance change to a weapon you don't want to use before it happened?

Seriously?

SERIOUSLY?

[Thomas Covenant]

In an all mech game, make machine guns useful, or get rid of them.

[Team Leader]

Its about time MGs and flamers became something more than absolutely wasted tonnage... Not sure if I agree with buffing crit damage "exponentially", Im more in favor with giving them DPS similar to a small laser, but its one way to address the problem I suppose.

[Liberty]

I have a feeling they will take MG balance more seriously when the Spider and Flea are released. Let loose the Hounds! and um... their Fleas. O.o

[udoshi]

Behold! The Anti-Battlemech machinegun mech!
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Piranha

It's capable of doing three large lasers worth of damage with it's ANTIMECH MACHINE GUNS ALONE.

[Liberty]

udoshi, on 12 December 2012 - 07:28 PM, said:

Behold! The Anti-Battlemech machinegun mech!
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Piranha

It's capable of doing three large lasers worth of damage with it's ANTIMECH MACHINE GUNS ALONE.

James Cameron would be proud.

[Stingz]

udoshi, on 12 December 2012 - 07:28 PM, said:

Behold! The Anti-Battlemech machinegun mech!
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Piranha

It's capable of doing three large lasers worth of damage with it's ANTIMECH MACHINE GUNS ALONE.

All that Dakka is one of the reasons why I want to join Diamond Shark.

Fastest way to make MGs OP is TACs (Though Armour Criticals). Spray a component loaded with ammo, and watch it explode within a few seconds.

[The Silent Protagonist]

Shard Phoenix, on 12 December 2012 - 01:48 PM, said:

Nope, there's never been such a thing as a machine gun designed to defeat armored vehicles.





So, far into the future when there are giant robots with advanced weapons, why wouldn't there be a machine gun of a large caliber which could serve a dual purpose role of anti-infantry and anti-mech?

As for MG's in the Mechwarrior Universe..

They were useful to some degree in MW2 and MW3 (never played 4). Not as primary weapons for taking down a DireWolf, but they were pretty good for taking down lighter mechs or finishing off a critically damaged opponent.

In MW:O they, again, shouldn't be some kind of beastly weapon that strips armor off in a heartbeat, but they should be useful for punching through parts of mechs that aren't heavily armored. On top of that, if armor is stripped machine guns should be an excellent weapon for ripping exposed internals to shreds.

1: What this guy said

2: BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRT

[Deadoon]

Lt XKalibur, on 12 December 2012 - 08:54 PM, said:

1: What this guy said

2: BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRT

I was wondering why I has a scroll bar on the bottom now...

[Streeter]

Franklen Avignon, on 12 December 2012 - 06:25 PM, said:

So, strip your machine guns (like every one else does) and fit more useful equipment than anti-infantry weapons. Problem solved!

of all the things unbalanced and broken in this game you choose this to complain about. really... really?


some simple facts for even the most short sighted

They weigh .5 tones EACH, have you seen a 500kg machine gun and whats its capable of? even weapons that weigh half that amount shred tanks in seconds.

by TT they are meant to do 2 damage per turn... thats 2/3 of a small laser. They currently dont.

due to hard points in this game you cant ridiculously boat them so there isnt the possibility of stupid MG builds.

So what exactly is your problem again?

[General Taskeen]

Here are some examples of MG's done right

(MadCat legs another MadCat by finishing it off with an array of 4 MG's)


(Player uses MG's to leg a light mech)


Granted the MG in MW3 shoots sort of in bursts, like the other AC's in that game, but very fast, and very damaging at extreme close range as it should be. Its essentially the equivalent of a Micro Small Laser with the same range disadvantage, although with ammo dependency, but with no heat buildup. Since MWO only has Mech vs. Mech combat, MG's really need to be made viable like that.

Edited by General Taskeen, 12 December 2012 - 09:47 PM.

[Ryolacap]

Well, obviously these are anti armor MGs, to have an effective range of 90m means they still have the punch to be effective against armor. Most light MGs +/- 7mm are effective to 1000m out vs personnel, and the 20mm aircraft M61 is used at around 600m. To have a 90m "effective" range does not mean the bullet does not travel farther but means it is no longer effective to complete the task. 90m is NOT anti personnel. It could still be a 20mm round diameter, hell the m4a1 is a 5.56 but is a beast when using NATO, freaking blows your hair back when firing. A extra heavy depleted uranium KE round with a high velocity charge at short range would cut armor like butter if you kept up the fire. You needed to add a weapon to a mech to kill the ants you would add a dual purpose weapon like an MG, still capable of close up protection against armor but a quintessential infantry weapon throughout history.

Edited by Ryolacap, 12 December 2012 - 11:58 PM.

[Lonestar1771]

Thontor, on 12 December 2012 - 04:46 PM, said:

exactly, and with MWO's extended range, this is even more plausible.. as opposed to doing damage at 90 meters and no damage at 91 meters..

in MWO it does full damage out to 90m, but past that, it doesn't have enough energy to do that much damage to mech armor, so it's damage is reduced in a linear fashion, out to 200m, past that it just doesnt have enough energy left to do any damage at all to mech armor

Could say the MGs use ferro-steel hollow points or something since you are going for maximum damage and they don't travel as far as other types of rounds. FMJs wouldn't work since they would just punch through the armor and continue on and sabots are designed to kill the vehicle's crew so that wouldn't work either.