46 replies to this topic

[Kousagi]

If ya hate Streak SRM's that much, just wait for Streak LRM's...

[Kobold]

Franchi, on 12 December 2012 - 08:11 PM, said:

Streaks are fine.

Stop being wrong.

[Synra]

Streaks should be fine. They ARE supposed to be guarenteed hits.

But where Streaks are problematic in MWO is:

1. They are doing 2.5 damage per missile for some reason, they should only be doing 2.0 per missile.

2. There probably shouldn't be a mech with 6 missile hardpoints.

3. When chain firing enough launchers, Streaks cause screen shake, which is both a blinding and a psychological effect on the target being hit. This makes it very difficult to fight back once that streak boat is on you.


If streaks did their proper damage, and people couldn't chain fire them, Streak boats wouldn't be as problematic as they are today. People would be able to fight back a lot easier, if they aren't being rocked. It's pretty easy to target the arms on a catapult and shoot them off.

Edited by Synra, 12 December 2012 - 09:20 PM.

[Nutlink]

SuomiWarder, on 12 December 2012 - 08:12 PM, said:

Streak 2s are no so bad. But I fear the day that Clan Streak 6s walk onto the battlefield.

My exact fears as well. Imagine how much a Mad Cat D with 2 ERPPCs and 4 Streak SRM6s would destroy everything if they kept their current balance methods. Or an Arctic Wolf with the slots for 6 SRM6s and 2 SRM 4s.....remove it's stock items and you could easy carry 4 Streak SRM6s....on a 40 ton mech. That's similar to 12 Streak SRM2s right now, or the theoretical power of 2 StreakCats, all on a 40 ton mech that's stock speed is 119kph. If you think Jenners are bad....

[Kobold]

Synra, on 12 December 2012 - 09:19 PM, said:

Streaks should be fine. They ARE supposed to be guarenteed hits.

Stop being wrong.

[Dagger6T6]

nothing wrong with the Streak2... ultimately it's the A1 variant I think... most that were running streaks are now full up with SRM6... I have seen a fair number of them 1 shotting assaults, and I'm surprised there hasnt been forum rage over it... yet

[CocoaJin]

Anytime you introduce an automagic hit weapon into a game, you have to make sure the ease of connecting with the weapon is offset by something that makes it at least difficult to fire. The ECM mechanic was a bit heavy handed, but thats only because the SSRM fire model was made to easy in the first place.

SSRMs arent the problem so much, the problem is the locking and firing mechanic. Too easy and too quick to target, especially when locking targets without LOS(no reason SSRMs should lock without LOS, they are direct fire weapons), currently locks dont break easy enough, and a new lock should be required after each firing(just like each firing/salvo in TT requires a new dice roll).

Edited by CocoaJin, 12 December 2012 - 09:52 PM.

[Dagger6T6]

this is what i've been saying for some time... the streak needed to have the cockpit shake reduced, it needed to require a new lock each time it was fired, it needs LOS first... and then when implemented with ECM the streaks could still be allowed to lock, but the lock time would be doubled

instead of having the Franken uber ECM which is like a combo of Guardian ECM, Angel ECM, sprinkled with Null Signature... although i'm sure there would be endless complaints on each side either way.

[Omni Tek]

Tempered, on 12 December 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

Seriously, just take streaks completely out of the game. PGI will never get them balanced because the mechanics of how they work is completely flawed. They were never meant to be instant hit homing missiles. All they are suppose to do is not let you fire if your aim is off.

If by insta hit you ment guaranteed hit I have some bad news for you, they did that cannon wise.

[Dr Killinger]

I don't know what to think of Streaks. If I don't have them on a mech, anything faster then 86kph will tear me a part (because they have Streaks ), and if I swap out all my missiles for Streaks, my damage figures double.

I think a big part of Streaks is a crutch for the wonky netcode, tbh.

[Khobai]

Streaks are only a problem on mechs that have three or more of them. 1-2 Streaks are perfectly fine on a mech to shore up its weaknesses against lights. But when you have three or more Streaks they start to become way too effective. The main offenders here are the Atlas D-DC, Commando 2D, Catapult A1, etc... I know PGI was considering adding a penalty to boating similar weapon systems. Maybe that wouldnt be such a bad idea for Streaks.

[vettie]

Tempered, on 12 December 2012 - 08:09 PM, said:

Seriously, just take streaks completely out of the game. PGI will never get them balanced because the mechanics of how they work is completely flawed. They were never meant to be instant hit homing missiles. All they are suppose to do is not let you fire if your aim is off.

If I am PGI / Dev or contract programmer for MWO and I see this post, I will dismiss it as someone that just got out of the game and mostly likely got their mech pounded by SSRms. I will chuckle and move on.

Whether I agree or disagree with what it is that you are trying to get across is not important, What is important is that you feel something is wrong with a particular weapons system, but you approached it in the wrong way.

If you want their attention please do the following

1 - send a email to support about what you think is wrong, why it is so in your opinion and do it in a constructive manner and, by all means, include a suggestion on how to make it right, Include the info from the Sarna web site and from any table top rules (editons / levels and so on).

2 - make a reasonable post on the forums using the same methods as described in number 1 here.

The support team AND the Devs DO read emails sent to support, even if they are suggestions. They may not always respond in a positive manner, but they will respond, Also remember, when you get a response from support that says your ticket has been solved or closed, that does not mean that they have 'fixed' your issue, it means they have added it to the items for the Devs and they are looking at action internally, but they need no further info from you (so your ticket is closed) unless they ask your additional info.

Going about it in this way will get your post / email noticed and MAYBE some action taken.

Just trying to help.

[Arafinar]

Seriously, why dont they just take out all the weapons to the simplest terms,
(seems that everyone has an opinion on whats OPed) PONG, one weapon
one obejective. Naw that wouldnt work then people would be crying that the
paddles are over-powered ready the nerf bats please.......

[Jonas]

I think the streak system is fine if they decide to do anything they might increase the anti-missile system effect or lower there damage a hair. But as they are I say they are good if you are getting killed by them then stay out of range or try a different Mech.

Its war ladies and gentle men every one is going to use every and anything they can to get that Kill or more importantly that W So deal with it.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Synra, on 12 December 2012 - 09:19 PM, said:

Streaks should be fine. They ARE supposed to be guarenteed hits.

But where Streaks are problematic in MWO is:

1. They are doing 2.5 damage per missile for some reason, they should only be doing 2.0 per missile.

2. There probably shouldn't be a mech with 6 missile hardpoints.

3. When chain firing enough launchers, Streaks cause screen shake, which is both a blinding and a psychological effect on the target being hit. This makes it very difficult to fight back once that streak boat is on you.


If streaks did their proper damage, and people couldn't chain fire them, Streak boats wouldn't be as problematic as they are today. People would be able to fight back a lot easier, if they aren't being rocked. It's pretty easy to target the arms on a catapult and shoot them off.

this is true but why are the ravens and commando's now sporting and abusing them?

Jonas, on 12 December 2012 - 11:21 PM, said:

I think the streak system is fine if they decide to do anything they might increase the anti-missile system effect or lower there damage a hair. But as they are I say they are good if you are getting killed by them then stay out of range or try a different Mech.

Its war ladies and gentle men every one is going to use every and anything they can to get that Kill or more importantly that W So deal with it.

yep that's why the game's boring, everyone wants the kill everyone uses the same gear.

[Corbon Zackery]

It seem like they mod. them and upped the shotgun pattern as my streak 2 tonight one would hit CT, and one would spray down to a leg.

So it seems like there spreading the dmg around more with the streaks and ECM has messed them up since you cant get a lock on mechs in the ECM field.

I would say there starting to get balanced out all most to the point of switching back to dumb fire.

Edited by Corbon Zackery, 12 December 2012 - 11:43 PM.

[Omni Tek]

BOTA49, on 12 December 2012 - 09:26 PM, said:

My exact fears as well. Imagine how much a Mad Cat D with 2 ERPPCs and 4 Streak SRM6s would destroy everything if they kept their current balance methods. Or an Arctic Wolf with the slots for 6 SRM6s and 2 SRM 4s.....remove it's stock items and you could easy carry 4 Streak SRM6s....on a 40 ton mech. That's similar to 12 Streak SRM2s right now, or the theoretical power of 2 StreakCats, all on a 40 ton mech that's stock speed is 119kph. If you think Jenners are bad....

You forgot the Vulture/Mad Dog

[Tangelis]

I think the mechanic of Streak Missiles is fine in terms of having the ability to lock and track targets vs Regular SRM's. Guarenteed hit? I know its been a long time since I played a TT game but I seem to recall having to still Roll to hit with streak missiles . The difference I beleive was if you did "hit" the target all the missiles hit the same location rather than having to roll to see how many hit the target and then having to roll locations for damage clusters. But you still had to roll a hit location which could be anywhere like any other weapon.

The problem I find with the MWO versions is not thier damage nor the fact that they track but rather the fact that they track so friggen well. If you fire 10 volley's 8 of them will hit the CT, 1 will hit either an arm or side torso and maybe 1 might miss somehow.

So long at the recticle is locked you can hit a jenner running 140km and off your screen. There is no out running them or some missing like LRM's or regular SRM's.

I do not think their ability to relaibly hit a target needs to be nerfed, but rather where they hit the target should be more random rather than the CT 90% of the time. If anything, the only thing that should increase thier chance of hitting where you want them too is if you have a Targeting Computer, but even something like that should have a minor bonus if it is even implemented. Not to mention thier ability to turn on a dime midflight. If the target is not in my recticle IE off my screen completly and I fire because I still have lock, those missiles should not hit a thing. But they do, and that is the problem IMO.

If Clan SSRM 4's or 6's function identicle to IS SSRM2's as they currently are..... wow, there will be screams of Overpowered threads by the shipload.... and they would be right.

[MustrumRidcully]

Streaks are supposed to not fire if an attack would lead to a miss. This is something that works as a game mechanic in the table top game, because you can basically retroactively declare a missed shot as a shot not taken. It's more difficult to do in a real time game, since the missile will need to fly its path and if it miss, it would basically need to retroactive claim not to have been fired. THat just doesn't work. So it must be necessarily some kind of lock-on mechanism. The question is how to implement the lock-on mechanism fairly?

In Battletech, a Streak Missile Launcher basically had the same sustained DPS as a regular SRM, if you consider hit chances. The difference was that the Streaks were not consuming ammo and heat on misses, that meant they were basically more efficient. You had to invest half a ton more for an SSRM2 so you could basically go with less ammo as your misses wouldn'T cost you anything. (Unless you're a perfect gunner that always shoots at point blank range).

I think the best way to reeimplement this kind o behavior would be ot make Streak Missiles simply have a longer cooldown before they can be fired again. Or raise the time needed to lock on, and require a new lock on after every shot.

[BatWing]

Good Lord.. another thread about SSRMs

Are SSRMs annoying? YES they are.However they are a perfectly legal weapon. Their mechanic is just wrong

Are they working correctly as a concept? NO they are not. Should not even exist something able to hit 100%. They went from a flight spread that was wrong to a worst solution.

Sometimes I just think they are throwing there ***** solutions to not have to think how to fix crap.

Streaks are Locking missiles, Think about AIM-9 on modern aircrafts.

A pilot trainer once told me "We need always to consider the word MISS inside the word Missile".THERE WILL NEVER BE A 100% HIT RATIO ON ANY CONCEIVABLE MISSILE. It doesn t matter if is a 21st century missile or a 23rd century missile.

This is simple ********. The only thing a Streak is, is a "fire and forget" missile, subject to failure as any other weapon system.

At the same time you cannot make the Streak the culprit of being overpowered when you have a ***** platfrm that is obviously wrong and unbalanced.

SOLUTION:
1 - give the Cat a max of 4 missile hardpoints
2 - give the Streaks the correct flight path and obvious chance to miss
3 - either give a random hit location to not aim to CT only OR POSSIBLY lock the hit location to the location under reticleat the moment of real lock !! Is that so difficult?? You lock having an Arm under reticle and the missile will "try" to hitthere and nearby areas.

Oh I see.. I AM TALKING OF ROCKET SCIENCE, AM I? ... lol..