32 replies to this topic

[Nahuris]

CASE on an XL engine is an in game fluff thing.... it somewhat protects the pilot. When ammo explodes, the pilot takes damage from neural feedback, and it most cases, the mech auto-ejects the pilot. When you get an ammo explosion, the damage for all remaining ammo is totaled and applied, destroying it's way inward.
So, a full ton of LRM ammo does 120 points... first to the current location, and then working inward, first destroying remaining armor and then internal structure until it destroys the center torso.
In the fluff, this is a massive explosion, and has a chance of killing the pilot, but with CASE, the explosion is channeled out the back of the mech, and even if the pilot doesn't eject, he only takes the neural feedback, but has a much better chance of survival.

Within the game universe it makes sense..... for one off games, it's a wasted of tonnage and space.
However, if it minimizes CT damage here, it may be useful to keep repair costs down..... which might make it useful.

Nahuris

Roland, on 13 December 2012 - 08:13 AM, said:

eh, I don't think you'd be able to do that on the Atlas anyway, even if you could split the crits.

Actually, you can in normal tabletop, since mechs don't have hard points, just crit locations.....
The one I've seen most often is a mod with 2 AC/20's and 4 medium lasers..... usually done in 3025 level tech.

Nahuris

[Mike McSullivan]

The difference between TT and MWO is simple -and here comes the effect of C.A.S.E - you can get killed! So, no matter if Case destroys XL Engines and Stuff, it was a perfect livesaver. e.g. 1 ton of MG Ammo could literally blow an Atlas to dust if it exploded.
Sure it depends if you were playing the simple way (Pilot? no pilot-iaaamdamaaaach ) , or with Mechwarrior RPG rules, where you could skill up you own character.

In MWO i´m still not sure if it makes sense in XL Mechs or not, concerning lesser repairbills.

[Bishop Steiner]

zhajin, on 13 December 2012 - 07:48 AM, said:

In table top case could protect an xl, not sure on how that worked but its what I have read. Also you can still run case in the arms to protect and xl. but yes as the game is now case in the side torso with an xl is useless.

Actually it did not protect the XL. In TT you lost the torso, and it's adjacent arm, and anything in the torso. You had anything in the torso destroyed. So an Inner Sphere XL was effectively damaged beyond use, and the mech was non functional. The IS XL has 3 slots in each torso, 3 engine crit hits disable the engine.

What it did was keep damage from transferring into the center torso and head, and essentially skragging the whole mech, and killing the pilot with an ammo explosion.

On Clan Mechs, because they could mount case in ANY area with ammo, and because their XL engines only take 2 critical slots (as opposed to 3 for the IS) meaning that they COULD run with a missing torso, but that each hit to the engine was also massively increasing heat output.

Since we don't "Die" in this game, it basically just keeps the repair bill down.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Roland, on 13 December 2012 - 08:08 AM, said:

Ya, this one is definitely in there. You can split the AC20's crits across adjacent sections, and then the firing arc for it ends up being the most restrictive section's firing arc. (ie. if any of the crits are in the side torso, then the weapon can only fire with the side torso's arc)

This came up pretty recently, and someone actually posted up the exact rule that governs it.

That could have been beyone my time in TT as well but it kinda sounds familiar too

[Joseph Mallan]

Stalker 5S has SRM Ammo in the sides according to RS:3050 Upgrades.

[Odanan]

Nahuris, on 13 December 2012 - 08:07 AM, said:

Need to re-read those CASE rules - per the current Total Warfare source book, if you have an ammo explosion in a torso with CASE, it destroys all internal in that location, and the back armor, which is blown out.
If you have an XL engine, it automatically takes the 3 crits, because all internals are destroyed... same as if the internal structure was destroyed, but the attack failed to get any crits.... once the internal structure is gone, everything in that torso is gone.

Oh true. My bad.

[Elkarlo]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 13 December 2012 - 08:04 AM, said:

nope they HAD to be LT/RT
and yes case on a mech with an xl is stupid in this game

I would say: Non Clan Case is stupid in this Game. The Tonnage for using the Case could be used for something usefull... like Armor more Ammo more Heatsinks etc... to prevent you using Case in the first Case

Clan Case can protect every zone and only cost one slot no tonnage. So it is much much better. IS Case can only protect Torso zones and cost 0.5 Tons... All IS Builds with Case are just waisting 0.5 Tons per Case installed... IMO but as an "advanced" Tech it is used in lot of 3050 builds without practicallity.

Edited by Elkarlo, 13 December 2012 - 08:48 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 13 December 2012 - 08:34 AM, said:

That could have been beyone my time in TT as well but it kinda sounds familiar too

that has been in the game since at least 1992-3, actually. And I can pullout my first Ed rules of war to see if it was earlier.... nope my 1987 Rules don't mention it. My 3rd? edition does. Basically can be spread between 2 adjacent spots, as the poster said. That said, I was surprised, even playing tournaments for years, how many rules I managed to overlook or not know.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Bishop Steiner, on 13 December 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

that has been in the game since at least 1992-3, actually. And I can pullout my first Ed rules of war to see if it was earlier.... nope my 1987 Rules don't mention it. My 3rd? edition does. Basically can be spread between 2 adjacent spots, as the poster said. That said, I was surprised, even playing tournaments for years, how many rules I managed to overlook or not know.

Maybe thats why its kinda familiar. I started playing in 3rd ed

[Joseph Mallan]

Thontor, on 13 December 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

as a few have said. CASE with an XL engine has a use in Battletech. Keeps the pilot from dying from the internal explosion, and keeps the mech from getting totally obliterated. Without CASE, the pilot is dead, and the mech is no longer salvageable. With CASE, the pilot lives, and the mech is still salvageable.

None of that matters in MWO though, since we can't die, and our mechs are always salvageable (we don't lose our mech when its destroyed.)

Certain mechs like the STK-5S, and the AS7-K before that, have CASE with an XL in MWO, because MWO follows the TRO designs for these mechs.

The devs have stated they want to make having CASE with an XL not be useless in those designs, but no hints as to how yet.

It also forces the excess damage of an ammo explosion out the back and away from the Center Torso Internals and even more expensive damage.

[Bishop Steiner]

Thontor, on 13 December 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

as a few have said. CASE with an XL engine has a use in Battletech. Keeps the pilot from dying from the internal explosion, and keeps the mech from getting totally obliterated. Without CASE, the pilot is dead, and the mech is no longer salvageable. With CASE, the pilot lives, and the mech is still salvageable.

None of that matters in MWO though, since we can't die, and our mechs are always salvageable (we don't lose our mech when its destroyed.)

Certain mechs like the STK-5S, and the AS7-K before that, have CASE with an XL in MWO, because MWO follows the TRO designs for these mechs.

The devs have stated they want to make having CASE with an XL not be useless in those designs, but no hints as to how yet.

I would come up with a simple solution.... and one sure to cause howls of protest.
If your "external" engine slots are destroyed, that is more to do with shielding and such, and so, your repairs bills stay in line with current pricing. If your CT engine * slots get cored out, it gets progressively much more expensive, to the point of if you actually lose the whole thing, you have to replace the engine.
(after all, some things CAN be wrecked beyond repair).

Then, while the "In-Game" use still seems marginal, the meta-game, oh boy howdy does it serve a purpose. And as mercs, our cash flow is the ONLY game.

[Joseph Mallan]

Thontor, on 13 December 2012 - 08:57 AM, said:

Yes, in Battletech, that's one of the benefits.


In MWO right now, a destroyed engine is a destroyed engine... Doesn't matter if its just the 3 side torso crits, or that plus the center torso.. It still costs the same to repair.

But you don't also have to repair the Gyro or the other equipment (2 slots)in the Center Torso since the CASE kept it safe.

[Khobai]

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So we get the STK-5S variant of the stalker on next patchday and I cannot get why it comes with CASE and an XL engine.

Of course, of course...sarna and such...but isn't that CASE basically dead weight?

Yes. And the devs have said its something theyre looking into... making CASE useful even if you have an XL engine. It would be nice if CASE made it harder to get critical hits on ammo stored in the same location.

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eh, I don't think you'd be able to do that on the Atlas anyway, even if you could split the crits.

Sure you could. The first AC/20 would go in the torso. The second AC/20 would be split between the torso and the arm. The two AC/20s take up 20 crit slots and there's exactly 20 crit slots available (12 in torso + 8 in arm = 20). However both AC/20s would count as torso-mounted because when you split locations the weapon counts as being mounted in the more restrictive of the two locations. And if I recall, the only weapons that can be split between two locations are the AC/20, UAC/20, LB20X AC, and Heavy Gauss.

But yes splitting those very large weapons between arm/torso locations is definitely something that should be allowed in the game.

Edited by Khobai, 13 December 2012 - 09:12 AM.