49 replies to this topic

[Woodstock]

Valerian Mengsk, on 04 November 2011 - 10:20 AM, said:

Open to all, no restrictions. If people get to join the House of their choice without restrictions it makes sense to have the same freedom for joining a Clan. Although my guess is that a fee will be charged for new content on this scale.

They have already said that you wont be able to buy a tactical advantage and clan tech is exactly that. That have also said that 'patches' will be free

[Jaroth Corbett]

And we already said bidding evens things out.

[Astaroth]

A model where you have one faction reserved for elite players is completely unsustainable. New and casual players will be turned off by their inability to win matches against vastly superior foes, making it extremely difficult to attract and retain new players. It's a fallacy to make the argument that you're only following the canon and that the Clans are supposed to be elite. This is a game, and games that aren't fun for the majority of players do not sell.

[MagnusEffect]

Definitely trial of position at the very least. I don't want those **** clanners going soft on me. Other ideas:

• After placing in the trial of position, you still get to keep your Inner Sphere pilot. That way, pilots that want to dabble in both House or Clans still can.
  
• Clan membership has an expiration date... say 2 weeks for example (1 month felt kinda long)
  
• To extend your membership by 2 weeks, place in another trial of position to reinforce your right to fight for your Clan. Only 1 extension per 2 weeks to keep people from banking their extensions.
  
• Winning causes a certain increase in rank, depending on your target.
  
• Losing to an equal ranked pilot causes no loss of rank.
  
• Losing to a lower ranked officer decreases your rank.
  
• Failure to place at all in a trial of position either drops your rank even lower or, if already at lowest position, expells you from the Clan. (maybe there could be a grace period or threshold to meet)
  
• EXPULSION FROM A CLAN DOES NOT MEAN YOU LOSE YOUR CHARACTER OR PROGRESS
  
• Place in a new trial of position after a certain "probationary" period (1 week maybe?) to continue where you left off

Edited by MagnusEffect, 04 November 2011 - 11:38 AM.

[IS Wolf]

omegaclawe, on 04 November 2011 - 09:51 AM, said:

Alright, so I don't know. I'm just getting this from osmosis, and in the other thread, lots of people were claiming that clanners didn't like legging and headshots and whatnot. Do whatever clanners are supposed to do right, then.

Just folks with sour grapes inventing excuses really.
Neither legging or capping are forbidden in Zellbrigen.

The only time that legging is mentioned in the latter, deals with the issue of what to do with a legged opponent.
They may request Hegira, you may grant Hegira out of the goodness of your heart, or you may demand their surrender.
However, you may not shoot at them until one of these three has been done or until they get back on their feet (if they can that is).

(And if they have asked or been granted Hegira or even surrendered, than obviously you are not allowed to shoot at them either)

Heck, even DFA, while it is considered a melee attack is allowed under Zellbrigen under very specific circumstances (namely that all your other weapons have been destroyed).

[MagnusEffect]

Astaroth, on 04 November 2011 - 10:45 AM, said:

A model where you have one faction reserved for elite players is completely unsustainable. New and casual players will be turned off by their inability to win matches against vastly superior foes, making it extremely difficult to attract and retain new players. It's a fallacy to make the argument that you're only following the canon and that the Clans are supposed to be elite. This is a game, and games that aren't fun for the majority of players do not sell.

And a model with no *real* differences between VASTLY different cultures/factions (by that I mean Houses vs. Clans) is boring, lame, and has been done to death. I'm not that keen on filling the Clans ranks with only advanced players either, but I do feel STRONGLY that there needs to be a real distinction between how House factions play and their Clan counterparts.

Traditionally though it does hold water:
The Clans are the remnants of the elite Star League armies (better warriors overall, better equipment, generally smaller )
The Houses are the war-torn remnants of the Star League itself (mixed bag in terms of troop quality and equipment...but superior numbers)

Can't tell you how many times I've fought clanners that didn't know their *** from their elbow. It just kills it for me.

Edited by MagnusEffect, 04 November 2011 - 12:38 PM.

[Zendric]

My opinion/idea,

To have a clan character, one must complete a semi-difficult (IE: About Hard-Level bots) Trial of Position, once. You choose your 'Mech and face 3 'Mechs of same or higher weight.

I personally will play IS almost as much as I would Clan if I could have both, anyone else with similar opinions?

[Woodstock]

A question for all those who chose Option 3 (open to all. No restrictions)

What do you think this option adds to the game?

Is it just laziness that motivates this choice?

Okay that's 2 questions

[Phades]

woodstock, on 05 November 2011 - 09:24 AM, said:

A question for all those who chose Option 3 (open to all. No restrictions)

What do you think this option adds to the game?

Is it just laziness that motivates this choice?

Okay that's 2 questions

It would appear that my fear is made into reality with this game. It is like watching planetside all over again. ~49% of folks want the better tech while 31% want the lore and restrictions. This leaves 20% for them to fight against, hence why they should not open it up to the players to decide for themselves through effort, money, or simple desire.

[Valerian Mengsk]

woodstock, on 05 November 2011 - 09:24 AM, said:

A question for all those who chose Option 3 (open to all. No restrictions)

What do you think this option adds to the game?

Is it just laziness that motivates this choice?

Okay that's 2 questions

Based on wild speculation I have a feeling that when they add Clan tech they are going to somehow balance it out because if it was vastly superior it would ruin the game because none of the IS tech would be competitive.

Which leads to the question of deciding who gets to play clans? Is it a huge problem if inexperienced players fill the ranks of the "elite clans"? Sure, if the goal of the game was to recreate BT in a computer game. But it is not, the goal of the game is for us to have fun in the BT universe.

And mark my words, they will charge a fee for the clan tech and balance it out to make it not considered a "tactical advantage". Small patches and updates might be free but content of this magnitude is going to cost money because its going to take them a lot of effort to add them to the game without ruining it.

Edited by Valerian Mengsk, 05 November 2011 - 01:56 PM.

[Cifu]

Well, i'm really fond to the 3025, the vanilla Battletech, so i choose the last option. I know the clans are very-very populars, but just think it over what means in the gameplay when the IS vs. Clan begin in canonic ways...

Everyone choose to be clanner, because they have waaaay much better 'Mechs and weapons, so only a small portion of the players remain Inner Sphere oriented (mostly hardcore players, who take this as a challenge). And actually no one can blame for this - an average player find no enjoyment to play with weak 'Mechs and weapons, just because the canon say this. Imagine what an average player feel, when see a Thor (Summoner) as an opponent, and he cannot even get close, for example, if he pilot a Warhammer. It's very frustrating...

If you do such manner, like the trial-of-position, you just make things worse, because the better players get in the clan side, so not even the better Mechs, but the more skill is on the clan side. How do you want to balance this? The IS side has five times more Mechs than the clan in every battle? Then the clan side players have problem to get in battle.

I know the Piranha want the clanners in the game. I won't against this. But i'm very affraid how can they do this, without ruin the game experience...

[renegade mitchell]

Trial of Position.

[anonymous218]

Open it to everyone. While a lot of folks are going to want to be in the Clans, the developers will have a system to balance out the tech (if they stick true to their word, that won't involve who pays the most).

If there's a Trial of Position against AI mechs as part of a character quest, that would enhance the experience and give them a taste of the Clan way. It shouldn't be so impossible as to scare away new players, who are going to be the lifeblood of the game.

There are going to be a lot of people coming in with no or little experience with the universe, and who just want to have fun. While I love the lore (see my callsign), the reality of opening this game up to more people and more $$$ is what will drive the developers. Limiting Clan membership to the chosen few detracts from that. A fairly challenging ToP as part of an initial quest might not. (Especially if you have to start as an IS player and rank up to a certain point before wanting to switch to Clan.)

Edited by Elizabeth Hazen, 06 November 2011 - 09:28 AM.

[Der BruzZzler von Wiesndoof]

Amarus Cameron, on 04 November 2011 - 06:04 AM, said:

Trial of Position, I do not question my skills!

Aff!
All clans who arrived in the IS (Rift / Draconian Drift) in august 3049 should be able to prepare the attacks (Periphery action).
Everything else is noncanon...

Edited by The_Birdeater, 06 November 2011 - 08:50 PM.

[That Guy]

i voted for the Trial. i think the tryout process should be quite restrictive. for example you need to have the right stats (what ever those are, K/D, helper point or what ever) before you can even apply.

the way i see it could work, the devs choose some hardcore and devoted players at the onset of the invasion to be the first core membership and leadership of the invading clans. afterward those that have good enough stats could apply to one of the clans, which involves the trial and all that. they have to then be manually allowed into one of the clans by one of the "officers". inorder to help balance them out, they have smaller drop forces (or the bidding thing), and have additional stats (call them honor points). they get honor by taking on more or outclassing enemies, killing in single combat etc (all those things the clans like to do). they LOOSE these points by doing dishonorable things like shooting in the back, killing a fleeing foe (all those things that the clans dont like)

why the harsh extra rules? keep out the kiddies and noobs who dont know or care about the clan lore and only want the better guns, and make the IS more appealing. IS free-for-all. clans, you follow our rules you get the shiny

(dont flame me too much i have not liked the clans for years and have forgotten alot of their ROEs and TTPs)

this way the clans are both very good, very few and very powerful

[Kudzu]

I really like the trial vs bots idea. Maybe something like after you unlock an option from the tech tree once a week you get the option to do a trial of position vs 3 bots. How you do in that trial effects how you start pestrige-wise in the clan: Defeat none and you wait a week (have this coded to the individual player like a dungeon lock-out so that real life schedule doesn't matter). Defeat one and you start at the bottom with access only to secondline mechs and work your way from there. Defeat two and you start with access to omni's. Defeat three and you also get something special, perhaps access to a special paint scheme or emblem to show off. Make the trial difficult but doable (and nearly impossible to defeat all three).

To make it interesting for those that fail the trial, have a grand melee (giant circle of equals free for all, no assault chassis) that runs a few times daily (with a minimum # of players queued in before it starts), last man standing gets in as if they defeated 1 mech in a trial.

I really like the BV idea that's been floating around as a way to balance sides (it would work well no matter who was fighting, IS vs IS, clan vs clan, clan vs IS). Having a star going up against two lance or even a company of IS would really balance out the tech difference.

[Xhaleon]

I voted for Trials of Position, but add that it should not be open to everyone. Only those who have long-term experience and have a very good win/loss or kill/death ratio (or some other metric that shows that they are actually effective rather than persistent) should be allowed to compete at all.

Helps to create fresh and invigorating rivalries too, when some players have to sit back in the Inner Sphere. Angry lasers flying ahoy!

[Victor Shields]

I think it will be interesting how they try and balance the matches between IS and Clans. In a straight tons vs tons, or even equal number of players vs players will generally give the advantage to the Clans in the early days until clan tech is more widely and readily available. Or they could enforce that Clan players cannot focus fire against opponents, unless the enemy does so. Interesting.........

Make it open to all players, not all Clan MWs were great (though many of them were!).

[Cifu]

Kudzu, on 07 November 2011 - 12:53 AM, said:

I really like the BV idea that's been floating around as a way to balance sides (it would work well no matter who was fighting, IS vs IS, clan vs clan, clan vs IS). Having a star going up against two lance or even a company of IS would really balance out the tech difference.

My problem is to the BV is simple: how represent the pilot skill? If the Clanners are only can be reach after a Trial and/or decent stats, then only the experienced players get to the Clans...

[Kudzu]

Cifu, on 07 November 2011 - 02:04 PM, said:

My problem is to the BV is simple: how represent the pilot skill? If the Clanners are only can be reach after a Trial and/or decent stats, then only the experienced players get to the Clans...

Well, we already know that as you progress up the tree and gain exp your pilot gets better, so just factor that into the base bv of any mech. Much like in TT an Atlas piloted by a 3/4 pilot costs more bv than an Atlas piloted by a 4/5 pilot. If done right with a lot of testing it could actually turn out to be an excellent balancing tool.