67 replies to this topic

[RobarGK]

So, I was reading around the forum and I noticed two contradicting points about the prices of mechs.

As stated several times by the developers, all mech weight groups are to be of equal value (for example, a Jenner is going to be just as useful as an Atlas). This is stated as an attempt to stop the grinding larger mechs and lead to a more equal environment, where a medium is as common as a heavy or assault.

The second point is that many people are under the opinion that in general, the lighter a mech is, the cheaper it will be (for example, a Jenner would be a fraction of the price of an Atlas). This makes sense due to material costs, and is in use in previous mechwarrior games and in the tabletop game.

In my opinion, this leads to a perceived discrepancy, where because of the assault mechs additional price tag many people will attempt to buy assaults more and avoid the lights. If this were to become commonplace then the same problem previous games had where everyone bought an assault (especially in multiplayer) would once again rear its head.

On the other hand, a heavier mech does use more materials, and therefore should cost more sence if you removed its armor, weapons and engine and sold them they would tend to be worth more than if you did the same with a lighter mech.
Beyond that, a heavier mech has more room when stripped, making it easier to modify as you want.

I myself am not sure how this should be handled (hence why this is in general discussion and not suggestions). I am hoping there is a way to balance this without making light mechs rare on the battlefield.
I have provided some possibilities in the poll, and if anyone has any other ideas please state them below.

Edit* I have added a poll option of having heavier mechs cost more for repairs. This would push players that cannot drive one well to pilot a lighter mech, but could still lead to many seeing an assault mech as an "end game" goal.

Edited by RobarGK, 16 May 2012 - 09:39 PM.

[Kanatta Jing]

Well, with things as they are, in cannon 1 Commando is worth 1/10 of what at Atlas does.

It's highly possible that PGI may level or reduce the price difference between Mechs.

[SgtPaladin]

I think we have to consider the length of the universe. is a 90t mech from IS-pre clan worth as much as a 75 ton madcat? no way. also who would BUY a charger?!?!?! you cannot tell me that is worth more than a hellfire!

[tPagen]

I expect players to buy 'Mechs that suit their needs. If they want to use a big 'Mech, they do so at their own risk.

[RobarGK]

SgtPaladin, on 16 May 2012 - 09:24 PM, said:

I think we have to consider the length of the universe. is a 90t mech from IS-pre clan worth as much as a 75 ton madcat? no way. also who would BUY a charger?!?!?! you cannot tell me that is worth more than a hellfire!

I meant the question in a more general way. The same issue would exist for the clans but with higher values.

[AH Warhawk]

Lets look at reason here. The more recorces and tecnology that a company puts into a mech the greater the cost. the amout of recorces it took to make the German Tiger2 was too great to for the natzis to make in great quantity. In short they ran out of recorces. On the other side a C-17 costs a fraction of the smaller F-22 becasue of the F-22s advanced stealth systems but congress ran out of money they did not have. My point is Recorces = money. An Atlas should cost more than a flea becasue its logical.

[LordKnightFandragon]

The heavier mechs should cost more but we should, if this game is going to allow us, to buy a big mech and make a good loadout with it, without the fear of running out of money...not to start anyway...if in our first battle we go broke..well..I guess that is a different story..

[RobarGK]

I added a repair cost option to the poll.

[Mota Prefect]

I'm interested to see how the devs are going to work out light vs heavy mech prices to make everything as fair and logical as possible. I know one thing for sure I don't want to see 12v12 assault battles because it would just be retarded. Making the heavier mechs cost more makes sense from a business perspective as well so you can bet that bigger mechs will cost more to buy in the end.

[Volthorne]

SgtPaladin, on 16 May 2012 - 09:24 PM, said:

I think we have to consider the length of the universe. is a 90t mech from IS-pre clan worth as much as a 75 ton madcat? no way. also who would BUY a charger?!?!?! you cannot tell me that is worth more than a hellfire!

[Spheroid]

I signed up to respond to this post.

I feel that all prices should be based on TT prices modified by the in community forces of supply and demand.

For example lets say 10,000 people initially sign up for the game. The designers could create some arbitrary number of PPCs and AC-5s for this player base. Since the PPC is clearly a much better weapon per ton, the cost of the AC-5 must fall relative to the PPC.

Same thing with mechs. The Atlas or similar assult mech might end up costing 10x or more its book value in the in game market. If chassis numbers or money supply is constrained I don't think you will find any problem with game variety. Any imbalance will be self-correcting.


Are you reading this developers?

Edited by Spheroid, 16 May 2012 - 10:43 PM.

[Ian Williams]

it seems to go without saying that a heavier mech will have to pay more for repairs. they will be in the combat a lot more. an atlas brawler will see tons (hehehe i see what i did there) more combat then a jenner scout. as such i also beleive the atlas should cost more, as it is simply more mech and will come with a larger load out. the jenner however will not come with as many weapons and will need more money for any extra armor or weapons they plan to equip.

[Arbhall Sommers]

They should base the cost of mechs on the cost of materials alone, it would mean there will be a dearth of players in narrow. Area of usage. But they have to keep their costs down, winning will not simply equate to victory overall, if thecrepairs bankrupt a player. Which in turn also means there will be real financial need to play lights and mediums, to keep repair costs down.
And ingame market would be cool, but that means the revs can't make any money. I want them to have my money, so they can afford to keep adding more content!
This is an mmo.
The wot model is awesome, I love it and it should be the standard for this style of military play.
I will buy premium mechs, customization options and so forth.
The revs controlling the costs instead of players is only smart, it keeps things simple and stable.
So iwandered a bit there.
But yes based on materials alone.

[RobarGK]

I understand the reasons for having a heavier mech being more expensive, but look at this from the perspective of some one completely new to the battletech universe. They get in the game, play a match or two, then look to see what they can buy with their newly earned money. They see a list of mechs and quickly notice that the most expensive mechs are all assaults, and the cheapest are lights. Most will decide right then that they need to save up to get an assault mech just because of the mindset of "if it cost so much it must be that much better". For better or for worst this game is going to bring in a great many new players that will not have any idea that a lighter mech is often the better choice of mechs. It then would not be very long before these people start buying the most expensive toy they see, which would lead to swarms of assault mechs.

[Chief of Scouts]

First of all, yes, I am new here...

Being an old fart and having played the tabletop Battletech game in the 1980s, and having played the MW series games, I have two perspectives on this subject.

The bigger the mech, the more it should cost to purchase and repair. It is partly a matter of resources and partly a matter of game balancing.

Gaming history has shown that an Assault mech will rule the battlefield when all variables are equal when matched against a light, medium or even a heavy mech. This is not an absolute, as skill, terrain and other factors can influence the outcome. However; if you can greatly increase your odds of victory by out classing your opponent in armor and armament, why choose anything smaller than the biggest mech you can pilot?

So given the option of an Atlas or a Jenner, the average pilot will take the Atlas. If MWO permits an even playing field where "They should cost the same, after all they are just as important in the game", we will still see 10 Assault mechs on the battlefield for every Light mech.

The bigger the mech, the more it should cost, both in purchase and repair. If you want to be the biggest, baddest mech on the battlefield, it should cost you extra.

[Kargush]

I say we should base prices on the relative price of the kit in the mech. An Urbanmech is obviously cheaper than a Hunchback which is cheaper than an Atlas.

It's not just weight, but also what the mech can do. Lots of fancy tech and gear will cost more than a brace of machineguns and a couple of medium lasers, even if the latter is on a heavier design.

[RobarGK]

I think what is really needed is a way to make being an assault mech pilot, in some small way, unappealling to new players. Many of the more experianced players already know the types of mechs they like and will go for them first and pilot others only occasionally to mix it up a bit. But so many new players going for an assault first could make this game full of assault only battles.
I know that personally, I will be piloting lights and heavies. Most of the players on the forum right now have a damn good idea of what exact mech they are going to pilot. But right now, with what information is out so far, why would a new pilot go for anything other then an assault? They just look so appealling at first.

Edited by RobarGK, 16 May 2012 - 11:03 PM.

[Spheroid]

RobarGK, on 16 May 2012 - 11:01 PM, said:

I think what is really needed is a way to make being an assault mech pilot, in some small way, unappeally to new players. Many of the more experianced players already know the types of mechs they like and will go for them first and pilot others only occasionally to mix it up a bit. But so many new players going for an assault first could make this game full of assault only battles.
I know that personally, I will be piloting lights and heavies. Most of the players on the forum right now have a damn good idea of what exact mech they are going to pilot. But right now, with what information is out so far, why would a new pilot go for anything other then an assault? They just look so appealling at first.

You make it unappealing by pricing the assaults at hundreds of millions of C-bills via supply and demand. Since the price will increase beyond your combat income only the true elite mechwarrior will get the ride of his choice. The sick need to be the best mechwarrior is motivation for most(along with the bragging rights).

[RobarGK]

Spheroid, on 16 May 2012 - 11:06 PM, said:

You make it unappealing by pricing the assaults at hundreds of millions of C-bills via supply and demand. Since the price will increase beyond your combat income only the true elite mechwarrior will get the ride of his choice. The sick need to be the best mechwarrior is motivation for most(along with the bragging rights).

But you say it will only be available for a "true elite mechwarrior". That is the problem. Every new player is going to see that and then try to become that "elite mechwarrior" by saving up for and buying that mech instead of trying other classes of mech and seeing if they are more suited to those positions.

[chaz706]

Make it just like in normal mechwarror...

Smaller mechs are cheaper but lack the staying power/firepower of mechs... maintenance costs are smaller.
Bigger mechs are more powerful, heavier but are also more expensive in terms of upfront purchase and maintenance.

Anything else really doesn't make sense.