48 replies to this topic

[WraithTR1]

I've seen a lot of post where people are saying that buying Mechs would be pay to win. I wouldn't see buying any Mech as being pay to win as long as it followed a set group of design rules or gives weapons or systems that are not available for use by everyone (Clan equipment, Lost Tech). For example say that variants were something you had to pay to purchase. So someone buys a Centurion AH, that wouldn't be pay to win to me as that's a common conversion for the Centurion, the weapons are commonly available, and it follows a specific set of design rules. Now if they were able to buy a Star League era Crab 27b, or when Clans invade a Black Hawk, and the Mechs and equipment were not available for use by everyone and only available by paying then that would be Pay to Win. Am I the only one that feels this way?

[Redshift2k5]

No pay to win, you can only buy shortcuts You'd be buying the exact same mech and weapons with cash as you would with c-bills (possible premium purchases would likely be different but never better)

[pursang]

Not this again...

[Sheilei]

pursang, on 17 May 2012 - 04:30 AM, said:

Not this again...

Yes indeed. Not this again.

[Aelos03]

WraithTR1, on 17 May 2012 - 04:14 AM, said:

I've seen a lot of post where people are saying that buying Mechs would be pay to win. I wouldn't see buying any Mech as being pay to win as long as it followed a set group of design rules or gives weapons or systems that are not available for use by everyone (Clan equipment, Lost Tech). For example say that variants were something you had to pay to purchase. So someone buys a Centurion AH, that wouldn't be pay to win to me as that's a common conversion for the Centurion, the weapons are commonly available, and it follows a specific set of design rules. Now if they were able to buy a Star League era Crab 27b, or when Clans invade a Black Hawk, and the Mechs and equipment were not available for use by everyone and only available by paying then that would be Pay to Win. Am I the only one that feels this way?

you are not only one that feels that way and as far as i know buying mech with money that can be got with c-bills is not pay to win, and if there are some restricted equipment/mechs only for money that would be p2w or lead to it.

[William Petersen]

WraithTR1, on 17 May 2012 - 04:14 AM, said:

I've seen a lot of post where people are saying that buying Mechs would be pay to win. I wouldn't see buying any Mech as being pay to win as long as it followed a set group of design rules or gives weapons or systems that are not available for use by everyone (Clan equipment, Lost Tech). For example say that variants were something you had to pay to purchase. So someone buys a Centurion AH, that wouldn't be pay to win to me as that's a common conversion for the Centurion, the weapons are commonly available, and it follows a specific set of design rules. Now if they were able to buy a Star League era Crab 27b, or when Clans invade a Black Hawk, and the Mechs and equipment were not available for use by everyone and only available by paying then that would be Pay to Win. Am I the only one that feels this way?

I am inclined to agree with you. However, the majority is not. There is also a psychological affect of havnig certain chassis (or variants, or both) be "premium" which makes a freeloader person feel they're getting short-changed and being pressured or forced into making purchases, typically provoking the person to resent that and be more miserly with their funds.

If, however, you take an approach similar to Riot (League of Legends devs) and allow folks to grind away at your game for everything (except aesthetics, which would amount to paint-jobs or decals in this game, since any model modification could be construed as P2W by they hyper-competetive and their disciples), you don't adversely affec the willingness of your customers to patronize you. The trick is striking the right balance between the two costs.

EDIT: Meant to mention "decals", forgot. Fixed now.

Edited by William Petersen, 17 May 2012 - 04:52 AM.

[CoffiNail]

OP you are right, buying mechs is not P2W, simply because it does not mean y ou are going to be good in that mech or variant. That is the nice thing of MWO, or what we know of it so far. Light mechs can pick away at a Atlas and win. There is no pay 2 win, just I want to get in that Mech chassis quicker.

Joe Mac who has too much disposable income can buy a Battalion worth of Mechs for his Mechbay and selection, but it in no way will translate to him being able to do well in t hose chassis.

[Aegis Kleais]

WraithTR1, on 17 May 2012 - 04:14 AM, said:

I've seen a lot of post where people are saying that buying Mechs would be pay to win. I wouldn't see buying any Mech as being pay to win as long as it followed a set group of design rules or gives weapons or systems that are not available for use by everyone (Clan equipment, Lost Tech). For example say that variants were something you had to pay to purchase. So someone buys a Centurion AH, that wouldn't be pay to win to me as that's a common conversion for the Centurion, the weapons are commonly available, and it follows a specific set of design rules. Now if they were able to buy a Star League era Crab 27b, or when Clans invade a Black Hawk, and the Mechs and equipment were not available for use by everyone and only available by paying then that would be Pay to Win. Am I the only one that feels this way?

It's not P2W if everyone has access to get the Mech. MWO lets you pay for convenience, not power. Having a Mech by paying for it to get it early doesn't do anything to make it more powerful vs the one someone pays in-game C-bills for.

[Killian Samuels]

I think "pay to win" can certainly have different meanings. If we look at another f2p game such as APB where you can spend 15 dollars to buy an amazing gun, or you can grind for literally half a year to get the same gun; is that fair? Of course time vs money applies to the argument but having outrageous amounts of hours/days/months needed vs paying money seems to lopsidedly favor paying cash for uber items, which of course is intentional as all profits from f2p games come via microtransactions.

So what I am trying to get at, is that buying mechs could indeed turn into pay-to-win because the majority of items you can buy in a f2p game greatly outshine those available to the casual gamers and even though the same items may be available to someone who is dedicated to grinding for them, the amount of time necessary could border on the absurd. Certainly as the dev's have said "money won't buy skill" but money can certainly buy weapons/mechs/items that are very very good.

Anyhoo my 2 cents

[FrostPaw]

I imagine people who pay Piranha games for whatever they are selling will likely gain an advantage over those not paying for it. MWO isn't a free game out of the goodness of their hearts....they want to monetize it. In order to make a regular income there has to be something worth spending money on. Far more people will pay for an in game advantage than will pay for a new colour scheme.

[Rhavin]

will will most likely load my mechbay up with some cash mechs if the prices aren't to steep. I like variety and will pay a premium for it. Will it make me better than the player who can't afford the Grand Dragon Varient and has to "earn it" with c-bills? No, it will make me happier and happier gamers support games much longer than frustrated ones.

[Aegis Kleais]

You could buy 20 of every Mech chassis out there.

First of all, you can only ever bring 1 at a time to a battle, so the NUMBER of Mechs in your garage is != how powerful you are.

Secondly, having a Ferrari doesn't make you a professional driver. Just because you have the Mech doesn't mean you'll be any good in it.

Lastly, no weapon you buy will EVER be more powerful than a weapon someone buys with in-game currency. Same goes for ammo types if they support those.

You CANNOT buy anything that is more powerful than what someone can freely get in the game. The only thing you can buy is cosmetics, which make your mech look more unique, but again, have no affect on its power.

Edited by Aegis Kleaisâ„¢, 17 May 2012 - 05:57 AM.

[Aelos03]

FrostPaw, on 17 May 2012 - 05:53 AM, said:

I imagine people who pay Piranha games for whatever they are selling will likely gain an advantage over those not paying for it. MWO isn't a free game out of the goodness of their hearts....they want to monetize it. In order to make a regular income there has to be something worth spending money on. Far more people will pay for an in game advantage than will pay for a new colour scheme.

well look at league of legends you can't buy power there and they have BIG income so thats proof you dont need to make game p2w to get money, I will never buy power and if this game becomes like that i will scream on this forum like a mad cat trying to get it fixed.

[Redshift2k5]

Paying customers will have the advantage of more mechs/variants in less time than those who choose to grind in-game c-bills to buy/upgrade their next mech. Greater range of selection and options for customizing will be pretty enticing to get people to drop some cash on the game

[CoffiNail]

FrostPaw, on 17 May 2012 - 05:53 AM, said:

MWO isn't a free game out of the goodness of their hearts....they want to monetize it.

I was once told by Paul, money is not a issue, that the game was about MechWarrior. PGI are smart, they realize that it is not what they put in to the game that will make their money, it will be people enjoying themselves that will go shell out money, and more money. They seem to realize that the way to get people to spend their money is to make it the best it can be, and to listen to the community, which they have done amazingly with.

But I do think i want to agree, of course PGI need to make money to continue as a DEV team, but they have also said in various interviews that they have devised it for those people who cannot afford to shell out 20 dollars a month, who will have problems shelling out 5 dollars every few months. They want to bring a MechWarrior game for the fans to play, as they too are fans and long for the franchisee to reach the heights it was, and to get where it should have been.

My opinion, PGI will have VERY little problems making their money off this game, which will then in turn give us a much more in depth game. PC gaming world, get ready to receive MechWarrior, console gaming world, get ready to be freaking jealous!

[Howling Mad Murdock]

Customisation is where they will make quite a bit of money, I think nearly everyone will want to change the paint job (probably so they can be unique or have joined a lance) on their Mech which will probably cost real money not c-bills.

[CoffiNail]

Howling Mad Murdock, on 17 May 2012 - 06:16 AM, said:

Customisation is where they will make quite a bit of money, I think nearly everyone will want to change the paint job (probably so they can be unique or have joined a lance) on their Mech which will probably cost real money not c-bills.

They have said EVERYTHING in game can be bought with Cbills or real cash.

[Redshift2k5]

Everything that affects gameplay can be bought cash or c-bills.

Custom paint, camo, and decals will be a cash cow

[CoffiNail]

I see it being 5 dollars for decal pack 1, or the amount of Cbills to get a Atlas in game, possibly even double the Atlas cost. They will make it so you CAN buy the decal pack with Cbills, but it is much quicker and painless to do so with real cash

[00dlez]

Redshift2k5, on 17 May 2012 - 04:28 AM, said:

No pay to win, you can only buy shortcuts You'd be buying the exact same mech and weapons with cash as you would with c-bills (possible premium purchases would likely be different but never better)

No. This is a slippery slope towards p2w. All mechs have certain advantages and disadvatages, by allowing certain chassis to some and not others you open the door to exploiting certain combos not available to all players . Theres a hundred examples of a "balanced game" upon release but after gameplay people find how certain combos are better than others.
As an example that I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that most gamers can follow: theres a reason 90% of people use maybe 20% of the available weapons in Counter-Strike. Aside from the AWP, Deagle, AK/M4A1, and MP5.... how often do you see other weapons? is the UMP going to be the premium content that people pay to use or is the AWP going to be premium, while everyone else uses the Scout?