20 replies to this topic

[bug3at3r]

PGI has what, 60 some odd employees? I can't help but look at how much content we've gotten since I've been here and think '...one new mech a month (sometimes a trial along with it), a redesign of a map about every other month...and ECM...what else are they working on?'

This just doesn't add up to me. I know PGI is smaller then a lot of other developer's out there, but the rate content comes out seems to me like it's 5 dude's working part time, and that can't be right.

But then there's Community Warfare. Something they haven't touched on in...well, since supposedly closed beta. I'm no developer, and besides doing stupid crap with Elder Scroll games I have no experience making games, so feel free to point something out that I may not be understanding, but to me, it makes no sense that it takes 60+ people to give us a mech or 2, and a remix map.

We did get ECM, and the way that works I'm sure it was a tricky process to get it in the way they did (I love it btw, just give us more ways to counter it)

But back to community warfare...it's guesstimation for release was this month way back when, correct? They haven't even mentioned it. Hell, they're outright avoiding question's on it. Wishful thinking on my part, or have they been trying to get it up and running for some time? Planetary conquest seems like something that would suck up resources and employees

Blame it on the wake and bake, but I think they're holding out. They can't possibly be this slow.

P.S. ARGONIAN CHILDREN!
(...to bad they sound like nords =X )

Edited by bug3at3r, 14 December 2012 - 05:23 AM.

[Stone Wall]

Alot of questions can be found in the Command Chair or Ask the Devs.

This one was answered awhile ago. They are holding back content until bugs are fixed.

[bug3at3r]

...that still seems off to me. I'm pretty fresh here, but have they been pretty good at staying on top of bugs?

[Congzilla]

They are putting out content way faster than wargaming.net did for WoT and they had at least twice as many people. WoT went full launch with only one game mode and 5 - 6 maps (no variants). They have also been advertising job openings, so they are hiring and growing. Making posts like this obviously doesn't help, if you want to help buy some MC.

[Sprouticus]

bug3at3r, on 14 December 2012 - 05:26 AM, said:

...that still seems off to me. I'm pretty fresh here, but have they been pretty good at staying on top of bugs?

I try to stay positive, but 'stay on top of bugs' would be a strech for even the most ardent fanboi. The issue with bugs boils down to ROI. They have been introducing a lot of new content and backend fixes. Some of these introduced new bugs, and some old bugs were not stomped out because they didnt want to do the work until the underlying platform was stabilized.

We are still waiting on DX11, but aside from that they have just recently returned to eliminating bugs after a few months of hold off on the work. I will say that the recent efforts have started to pay dividends (framerates and netcode seem to have improved a bit). But they still have a long way to go.

As for the content, yes, they held off on some content due to bugs in other content (Raven-3L, DHS mechs, etc), but I dont think they are holding off on other content.

Congzilla, on 14 December 2012 - 05:27 AM, said:

They are putting out content way faster than wargaming.net did for WoT and they had at least twice as many people. WoT went full launch with only one game mode and 5 - 6 maps (no variants). They have also been advertising job openings, so they are hiring and growing. Making posts like this obviously doesn't help, if you want to help buy some MC.

In all fairness, I dont think he is being a troll. Maybe poorly worded, but it sounds like an honest question from a nub.

[bug3at3r]

lol, space poor here. There's a reason I'm usually attracted to F2P games.

In any event...it really took 100+ people to push out 5 maps and a single game mode? I only played WoT briefly (Tried it for like 3 days, couldn't get into it). Didn't realize exactly how many people it took to make a game.

Thats...concerning. So realistic hopes for CW anytime soon are pretty slim then?

[Penance]

They have 60 employees but they all don't work on the same thing at the same time. some work on animation, some netcode, others skins, others community warfare. then they may be shuffled around between projects.

my job has fewer employees. We have our responsibilies, then management gives us more (and no more money), now the original stuff takes longer to get done, then people call out sick, then their stuff needs to get covered etc...it never ends.

Edited by Penance, 14 December 2012 - 06:03 AM.

[Adridos]

bug3at3r, on 14 December 2012 - 05:35 AM, said:

Thats...concerning. So realistic hopes for CW anytime soon are pretty slim then?

Making a whole game from ground up using an engine noone has ever programmed on and having it in actual working state in less than a year by 40 people there are would've been considered impossibly by many companies. PGI know their work, but we have to accept it's not a studio of 1000s of people around the globe and we have to have some patience when it comes to new things alongside fixes and working on planned features.

[Stone Wall]

Diablo 3 promised two game modes on launch. That game launched in May with a whole fleet of employees and they still don't have PvP.

[stjobe]

Here's a good look at why 'mechs don't come out very often http://penny-arcade....ricate-birth-of

Read it, it really hammers home the ridiculous amount of work that goes into creating our 'mechs.

[bug3at3r]

Well stated, but they gave us the time table. If they can't deliver I dont think its asking to much to inform the player base.

stjobe, on 14 December 2012 - 05:57 AM, said:

Here's a good look at why 'mechs don't come out very often http://penny-arcade....ricate-birth-of

Read it, it really hammers home the ridiculous amount of work that goes into creating our 'mechs.

Ill give it a read

Stone Wall, on 14 December 2012 - 05:57 AM, said:

Diablo 3 promised two game modes on launch. That game launched in May with a whole fleet of employees and they still don't have PvP.

Wow, really? Im glad I stayed away from that one.

[Penance]

bug3at3r, on 14 December 2012 - 06:01 AM, said:

Well stated, but they gave us the time table. If they can't deliver I dont think its asking to much to inform the player base.



Ill give it a read



Wow, really? Im glad I stayed away from that one.

timetables are just a guide. remember, PGI makes the game based on what IGP tells them. If IGP tells them they have a certain amount of time to put a certain thing out, that's it. so the tables we see are constantly changed internally. As far as up to the minute updates for us...they aren't a news organization. It would be nice, but they aren't required, every few weeks or so they should update the map.

But like all roadmaps and trips, there are bound to be unforseen detours. It sucks for us because we're the ones who have to wait.

If you think things are bad, try hawken. I'm reading the forums there, people are waiting like 45 minutes to just play the game.

[Thorn Hallis]

bug3at3r, on 14 December 2012 - 06:01 AM, said:

Well stated, but they gave us the time table. If they can't deliver I dont think its asking to much to inform the player base.

Thats what they do.

[Flapdrol]

bug3at3r, on 14 December 2012 - 05:26 AM, said:

...that still seems off to me. I'm pretty fresh here, but have they been pretty good at staying on top of bugs?

Only if they're game breaking.

[Triggerhippy]

bug3at3r, on 14 December 2012 - 05:35 AM, said:

lol, space poor here. There's a reason I'm usually attracted to F2P games.

In any event...it really took 100+ people to push out 5 maps and a single game mode? I only played WoT briefly (Tried it for like 3 days, couldn't get into it). Didn't realize exactly how many people it took to make a game.

Thats...concerning. So realistic hopes for CW anytime soon are pretty slim then?

Yeah IMO the devs are putting up with a lot of unwarranted flak from people comparing PGI to companies like Sony & EA games, that can throw endless startup resource at a project, have hundreds of coders, animators and modelers (and who consistently put out mediocre games that cater for the lowest common denominator and have no soul). These 60 odd guys and girls are working flat out (probably even nights and weekends to bring this game out) respect is due!

That said they have been only a few weeks / months off their rough initial time frame so I would look for CW in the spring and the clans some time mid to late 2013 (if my battletech history is correct and it probably isn't - you TT "canon is the law!" guys feel free to correct me if I'm wrong)

[Adridos]

bug3at3r, on 14 December 2012 - 06:01 AM, said:

Well stated, but they gave us the time table. If they can't deliver I dont think its asking to much to inform the player base.

Timetables are a double edged sword.

Either you have them and people complain you don't always get things out on time, or...
You don't have them and people complain you're not giving enough info away.

I prefer to have time table, it's just about accepting the fact I may not get everything on time.

[Broceratops]

this is not a nice thing to say but based on their previous games, PGI is not comprised of what you would call cream of the crop developers

[Apoc1138]

Adridos, on 14 December 2012 - 06:13 AM, said:

Timetables are a double edged sword.

Either you have them and people complain you don't always get things out on time, or...
You don't have them and people complain you're not giving enough info away.

I prefer to have time table, it's just about accepting the fact I may not get everything on time.

Yeah, PGI gave out a timetable really early on in closed beta... players then started beating them up over not delivering so they stopped giving out any updates, which only made things worse as people still kept dragging up the original timetable...

PGI had been guilty of not communicating with the player base... however with the command chair section and weekly if not sometimes daily updates, things have really improved!

[stjobe]

Just a bit of comparison here:

PGI: 65 employees.
Wargaming.net (makers of World of Tanks): ~800 employees.
Blizzard Entertainment: 4,600 employees (nowadays part of Activision Blizzard with over 7,700 employees).

So yeah, PGI has done some amazing work in the last year.

[Inviticus]

The number of employees a company might employ does not directly translate into the speed of which content/product can be churned out. Many of those 60+ employees are almost certainly dedicated to functions other than content development. Developing and maintaining software on an enterprise level is far from a trivial matter.