36 replies to this topic

[The Jove]

Just got myself an Ilya. I'm used to aiming with my HBKs, which all have the heavy guns at the torso. With them, I have no problem with landing ballistics shots.

However, I noticed that I'm missing a *lot* with the Ilya - essentially, the ballistics are not flying where the circle reticle is indicating. It's not a case of lag compensation either - it looks like my shots are converging somewhere behind the target.

I suspect it's a problem with arm-mounted ballistics. What am I doing wrong, and how are you supposed to aim with them?

[Roughneck45]

It just depends on how your mech is moving, or if you are turning your torso right before your fire. The momentum from either of those actions will transfer into the shot, and cause it to be off target.

You just need to lead your reticle to compensate for the momentum. If you can afford to, slow down just before the shot, and allow the reticle a half second on target to get proper convergence. You should have a much easier time with it that way.

Edited by Roughneck45, 12 December 2012 - 02:25 PM.

[New Breed]

Arm Ballistics are terrible

they shoot in an X pattern, you will shoot around some people

All mechwarriors are cross eyed pilots.

convergence will make it into the game some year.

Edited by Ghost Bear, 12 December 2012 - 02:26 PM.

[ArcDemon]

Convergence is an issue with ballistic weapons. Rather then your guns shooting forward in a perfectly straight line (a Hunchback could fire both arm lasers and hit the ground on either side of a Commando) they pivot slightly so that they meet at a particular range. You probably already know that.

Convergence is hurt by two things however. It is not instant so when the range to target changes the convergence doesn't instantly update, especially with the ballstics where the barrel has to physical move. And it is also not based on your R target, but by where your aiming pointer is - so if you aim slightly ahead of your target to compensate for lag you'll actually be targeting a point on the ground 100m or more behind the target, resulting in the wrong angle being used by the barrels.

The farther away the barrel is from the center of your mech the more these convergence issues (especially the leading problem) become, because they need bigger changes to the angle in order to converge (a ballastic weapon mounted in the exact center of the torso would never need to adjust).

The arms on the Ilya are spaced quite wide from the body, which is why the convergence errors are so extreme. By comparsion the K2 Catapult (gause cat) has extremely close to center ballastic point mounting (closer then the Hunchback) which is why they can snipe so well.

Edited by ArcDemon, 12 December 2012 - 02:30 PM.

[bug3at3r]

Best luck ive had is aim far enough ahead of the target to allow half a second for the arms to catch up to the crosshairs.

Not great, but its the best Ive managed to do to compensate.

[Spencerino]

Personally, I've found it seems like the server bases your line of fire on the location your arms were pointing at at the time you sent the order to fire, instead of where they are pointing at the moment it actually fires, unlike the torso mounts, which seem to fire where you are actually pointing the torso. For example, on CN9-A, I can land solid hits with regular SRMs far easier than I can with an autocannon, and it's not just because of the "shotgun" effect, since landing LBX10 shots is equally difficult for me.

(this is with ~150ms ping)

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

If you want to work on learning the convergence of arm based weaponry, pick up a CN9-A for cheap and slap a gauss into the arm.

Nothing's a better teacher for arm mounted ballistics.

Also remember, you have two reticles, the tiny circle is where you're arms are pointed, the + is your torso.

your pilot lab stuff is a big part of this too.

Also with Ilya I've found a really god setup that nails me 3-5 kills a match has decent surviveability, and the primary guns are in the arms.

[Kommisar]

ArcDemon has the right of it with how the crosshairs and convergence work. Convergence (as it is currently operating in MWO) works really well for beam weapons that do not require lead. It plays havoc with ballistics that must lead a moving target. If you have to lead the target; which, with ballistics, is any moving target; your convergence setting will never be right. It will be off by whatever the range is under your circle crosshair. If you are also moving... then things get really complicated. If you and your opponent are both circling each other at relatively close ranges: get out of that situation pronto.

This is why only the desperate or lucky engage lights with ballistic weapons.

[Leetskeet]

Just pray.

Any kind of projectile on the arms except for SRM's(as in, Ballistics and PPC's) just go where they want.

Ballistics and the like are WAY too slow in this game, so there's really no point at trying to hit a moving target outside of about 200m

[Kraven Kor]

Ghost Bear, on 12 December 2012 - 02:25 PM, said:

Arm Ballistics are terrible

they shoot in an X pattern, you will shoot around some people

All mechwarriors are cross eyed pilots.

convergence will make it into the game some year.

Convergence is already there, just a bit wonky.

In theory - if not always in practice - If your reticle is on a non moving mech, all your ballistic shots will hit almost the exact same location - at any range at least out to maximum.

However, Convergence seems wonky.

Leading a far away target is not so bad; but it depends on where your reticle is pointing when you make the shot. If you make the shot within a few seconds of some closer object passing under your reticle, or when aiming way into the distance, the shots do different things - aiming closer, they will "cross paths" and often miss. Aim farther, your shots seem to just go around the target or strike far apart.

The way it is supposed to work is that it takes your weapons a few moments to adjust, and they are constantly adjusting to fire based on your range-finder - they should converge a the distance of whatever is under your reticle.

Against very close targets, this issue is all the more noticable, particularly when firing off far to your left or right.

I don't think it is working as intended, nor can I tell if "Pinpoint" actually did me any good, but I have managed to compensate for this most of the time.

[The Jove]

Ok, my fixes are as follows.

Moved one gauss to the RT so that the convergense errors are less extreme. This helps if I have to engage a large, slow target in close combat.

Moved a large laser to my RA so I can engage lights with serious firepower. I have very little problem lag-leading with lasers against lights.

Left one gauss on LA because that's where the slot is. If the target is moving, I'll try to only engage when the background of the target is at a similar distance as the target. This way the convergence seems to be about right. The server is probably setting the convergence distance according to the background.

Thanks for the tips!

Edited by The Jove, 12 December 2012 - 02:59 PM.

[One Medic Army]

Keep at it.
Last night I gave in and tried a dual-gauss setup on my Cataphract 4X.
Couldn't hit anything for 2-3 matches.
Then I started racking up 400+ dmg and 2-4 kills per match, including multiple light mech kills with the gauss.

It takes a bit of getting used to mainly.

One specific thing: I've been waiting to take my shots for the right moment, when the target isn't moving left or right relative to me, then aim straight at them, seems to help convergence. Also if you're above someone and aim at them, or aim low at them, the difference in distance between where your leading reticule and where they are is less and you get more hits. Same deal for people standing in front of hills/cliffs.
Surprisingly the hardest thing to his is someone moving sideways on top of a hill, really throws off your convergence.

Edited by One Medic Army, 12 December 2012 - 03:09 PM.

[lithu]

The best is when you're close and the shots arc around what's in front of you when you shoot.

[Parnage Winters]

The alternative to moving things around, is to put enough shells into the air that so long as you are pointing in the general direction something will hit.

[Orkhepaj]

thats why ac-s are useless at close range if target is moving sideway

[GalaxyBluestar]

The Jove, on 12 December 2012 - 02:09 PM, said:

Just got myself an Ilya. I'm used to aiming with my HBKs, which all have the heavy guns at the torso. With them, I have no problem with landing ballistics shots.

However, I noticed that I'm missing a *lot* with the Ilya - essentially, the ballistics are not flying where the circle reticle is indicating. It's not a case of lag compensation either - it looks like my shots are converging somewhere behind the target.

I suspect it's a problem with arm-mounted ballistics. What am I doing wrong, and how are you supposed to aim with them?

this is one of the few aspects of the game the devs have gone all simuator on. you're basically using fixed range weaponary. the shots are for your reticle at Xmeters if you're trying to shoot a target well under the fixed range the you're shots will only hit far outside the reticle, you need to adjust for that yourself.


succes with fixed cannon auto cannon's ppcs and gauss

----------------------------- Xmetres
-----------------------------:______:
----------------------------:_______:
---------------------------:________:
--------------------------:_________:
-------------------------:__________:
-------------------------(((((( you ))))))

no succes with fixed cannon auto cannon's ppcs and gauss


----------------------------:_____:
---------------------------:______:
--------------------------:_______:
-------------------------:_Ymetres_:
------------------------:__________:
------------------------(((((( you ))))))

it's kinda like a curve effect so yes centralise the weapons to make it easier or you'll have to single fire each arm mounted weapon and judge for yourself how to lead the target.

get the practice in and have fun!

yes i know poor diagrams...

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 12 December 2012 - 03:30 PM.

[Zypher]

I would avoid using ballistics if you want to have an edge. Because of convergence you do not get on demand fire at all times unless you want to miss, unlike lasers that shoot exactly where I direct them to at all times. Throw fire delay into the mix and hitting something that moves across your hud faster than 64kps is a crap shoot. The only thing I have found ballistics good for is hitting other assaults and heavies that don't mount large engines or players silly enough to stop moving, shutdown, or move in a straight line. In those situations you are still dependant on the other player to make 100% of your weapon, with lasers if I can see them and they are in range I am free to have my way with them.

Ballistics can be fun and they are not useless, but again, if you want the edge stick to small, medium, large and their pulse laser cousins except for the large pulse.

Edited by Zypher, 12 December 2012 - 03:27 PM.

[Alfred VonGunn]

ArcDemon, on 12 December 2012 - 02:26 PM, said:

Convergence is an issue with ballistic weapons. Rather then your guns shooting forward in a perfectly straight line (a Hunchback could fire both arm lasers and hit the ground on either side of a Commando) they pivot slightly so that they meet at a particular range. You probably already know that.

Convergence is hurt by two things however. It is not instant so when the range to target changes the convergence doesn't instantly update, especially with the ballstics where the barrel has to physical move. And it is also not based on your R target, but by where your aiming pointer is - so if you aim slightly ahead of your target to compensate for lag you'll actually be targeting a point on the ground 100m or more behind the target, resulting in the wrong angle being used by the barrels.

The farther away the barrel is from the center of your mech the more these convergence issues (especially the leading problem) become, because they need bigger changes to the angle in order to converge (a ballastic weapon mounted in the exact center of the torso would never need to adjust).

The arms on the Ilya are spaced quite wide from the body, which is why the convergence errors are so extreme. By comparsion the K2 Catapult (gause cat) has extremely close to center ballastic point mounting (closer then the Hunchback) which is why they can snipe so well.

The best way currently to deal with this is the following..

Aim at the ground just in front of your targets line of movement.. Just as you hit the fire button raise teh aim point up.. The convergence will usually still be at the range of the ground y his feet when the guns actually fire.. t is sloppy but I have found it works more often then not.. Use the code in your favor.. The lights do.//

[Tarriss Halcyon]

To be honest, I've had very few issues with arm-mounted ballistics. Then again, that's because I've been piloting a Dragon for ages, and have no plan to switch to a Cataphract.

Zypher, on 12 December 2012 - 03:25 PM, said:

Ballistics can be fun and they are not useless, but again, if you want the edge stick to small, medium, large and their pulse laser cousins except for the large pulse.

Uh, what? I've been running a HBK-4SP with a Large Pulse, Medium Pulse, TAG and two SSRM launchers. The Large Pulse scores the majority of my kills against enemy heavy/assault mechs, and when I hit lights with it, they typically run off rather than face it again. It's proven effective for me.

[Asmosis]

Best suggestion i can make is if your trying to lead a target, aim for its legs/feet. That solves two issues, first convergence is minimal, second if you hit them you might leg them and not have to worry about leading anymore