59 replies to this topic

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Another nice thread, Code, but we're fighting a lose war here. It's clear they're going to remain catered to these brawler kids that don't care about anything but their ability to blindly charge to 300m then pewpew freely. Worse yet is how some of these people foolishly think this device somehow helped the game, helped balance, helped tactical play, and are actively defending it. It did the exact opposite of all of those things. How people can be so blind or so stupid is totally beyond me. It's like a person saying they can't swim. So they got to attach little baby floats to their arms. Don't bother trying to learn how. Just put on the little baby floats. Problem solved. This ECM is what that is, total immunity to what was a minor problem you were able to effectively counter already if you bothered to try. The rest of us that were actually good at this game didn't need this thing. Only the people that stood around in an open field with no usage of cover or even an AMS are the ones that cried about LRM barrages. You shouldn't cater to the lowest common denominator(Like Blizzard did with WoW every year with their PvP changes). You should instead focus on making the game itself, better, where everything has advantages and disadvantages and is viable. You shouldn't have extreme high and low ends of a scale as you currently do. Technically we had this before in some aspects... but now it's even worse.

Now they're adding a new game mode. I'm happy to see something new that isn't just another MC gouge, but the game will still be a 300m brawler pewpew without fixing the problem(AKA ECM) you dropped on us with the last patch. Either gut this device down to the level of everything else, or start handing out buffs to things that need it in order to compete with this. I wouldn't mind the ECM being the way it is... if other things weren't rendered totally useless just by its presence. Here's another thread with 1 very simple suggestion that would help the problem...
http://mwomercs.com/...2-buff-the-bap/

Edited by Bluten, 14 December 2012 - 06:43 AM.

[Elwood Blues]

The only issues I have with ECM have nothing directly to do with it. The mech selection means that every drop seems to need 4 mechs chosen from only 4 different variants. The other issue is the same persistent issue with the lag shield on light mechs. Commandos and Ravens live way too long running around the other team and just not taking damage from direct hits. This means in order to quick kill them you need to out ECM them so the streaks can hit.

ECM, however, is great. It finally means that a scout can actually scout without being immediately located by a red arrow. Target calling is also more challenging.

[Calon Farstar]

Kaldor, on 14 December 2012 - 06:18 AM, said:

I like ECM as a mechanic, but I dislike the fact the only counter is another ECM. The other issue is the actual implementation as it is actually 2-3 pieces of gear rolled up into 1.

They need to offer counters using items in game (TAG, BAP) that reliably counter ECM. There has been numerous threads on changes that could be made. For right now, its either quit, run ECM, or work together closely and focus fire the ECM mechs.

I totally agree. ECM should just be ECM. BAP should be able to counter the some of the effects of ECM not be rendered completely useless. BAP equiped mechs should be able to spot ECM shrouded mechs... It only makes sense.

I also think that Streaks should be able to be dumb fired....whatever cannon genious thought it would be a good idea to go into battle with a weapon system that your enemy could somtiems shut off....really bright.

[Elistaire Drummond]

ECM changed a lot gamewise. At the moment, I haven´t yet worked out for me, if I like it or not. What annoys me a little bit is that ECM is in MWO much more dominant than in TT. Time will tell...

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

Seraphims Blood, on 14 December 2012 - 06:06 AM, said:

you are right, but at current state team with more ECM mechs will most likely win. Period.

This is especially made true if you use Streaks. People cried about Streaks even more than LRMs up until now, and Streaks were actually OP, so I don't blame them, but now they're STILL OP if you're able to use them. They turned this into ECM vs No ECM when the weapon should have been edited on its own. I'm running 2 Streaks on my 3L right now and they're just as broken as they were before. If you don't got an ECM, then I'm jamming you while railing you with Streaks just as harshly as before. If you do, then I just switch mine to counter mode and keep spamming them anyway. They didn't fix the issue itself. They just dropped a game breaking device in to deal with it. So now the game revolves around having one yourself, or more than the enemy, when they could have just nerfed the weapon all on its own.(ie edit damage or recycle time)

[BloodyDziq]

Gristle, on 14 December 2012 - 06:28 AM, said:

Played an 8 man last night and got positively LRM owned my a team running 4 ECM/TAG Ravens and 4 ALRM heavy Assaults / Heavies.

yup, this is the problem right here, the ultimate tactic.

ECM should not be countered only by another ECM, TAG and NARC could counter ECM (and NARC should be better - more range, more ammo/ton)

[neviu]

i vote to remove the op,

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

neviu, on 14 December 2012 - 06:42 AM, said:

i vote to remove the op,

... why? He's right about everything he's saying...

[Inviticus]

I agree. ECM is stupid overpowered in it's current form. Just stack a few ECM godmode mechs, sync drop cheat, and you can stomp pugs all day. ECM really ruins the game with how it allows you and your entire team to basically stealth their way to easy base caps.

Get rid of it until it's fixed.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I like the lack of missiles in the game right now. ECM for the win!

Now all we need is knock-down put back in the game to nerf the light mech a bit, and we will be all set.

[Joseph Mallan]

Bluten, on 14 December 2012 - 06:41 AM, said:

This is especially made true if you use Streaks. People cried about Streaks even more than LRMs up until now, and Streaks were actually OP, so I don't blame them, but now they're STILL OP if you're able to use them. They turned this into ECM vs No ECM when the weapon should have been edited on its own. I'm running 2 Streaks on my 3L right now and they're just as broken as they were before. If you don't got an ECM, then I'm jamming you while railing you with Streaks just as harshly as before. If you do, then I just switch mine to counter mode and keep spamming them anyway. They didn't fix the issue itself. They just dropped a game breaking device in to deal with it. So now the game revolves around having one yourself, or more than the enemy, when they could have just nerfed the weapon all on its own.(ie edit damage or recycle time)

What makes streaks OP is that HP allow the inclusion of more than 3. Are two SSRMs really OP? No its 10 points of damage. If thats OP then a PPC, Ultra 5 & AC10 are all OP also cause they to put 10 points of damage into one location. And if the pilot has good reflexes they don't miss either!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 14 December 2012 - 07:01 AM.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

MeiSooHaityu, on 14 December 2012 - 06:51 AM, said:

I like the lack of missiles in the game right now. ECM for the win!

Now all we need is knock-down put back in the game to nerf the light mech a bit, and we will be all set.

You shouldn't like choices in a game that are completely ineffective or useless due to faulty game design/balance. You shouldn't like how devices can serve no purpose. You shouldn't like how guns can be too weak to be worth their weight. We already had things like this before(Cough Flamer cough), well, now we have more of them. They should work towards reducing this number, not increasing it.

Edited by Bluten, 14 December 2012 - 06:56 AM.

[Hellion]

Ok guys lets take a step back here, If you take a look at the game pre ECM, quite frankly it was really boring. Tons of lights with streaks, streak cats, LRM boats sitting on hills with impunity. We used to run 4 mans as all lrm boats or small light streaks, or even streak cats. It was mindless, skill less, and boring. We won every single match easily. Now with ECM`s in the folks that I run with have diversified They have been forced too. We have guys now running in every single weight class with and without ECM`s. Guys developing brawlers that don't have auto lock on. Guys that still carry streaks but less and the same with LRM`s. We have to work together and run mech`s that compliment each others skills. We have to plan for all scenarios and spread it out between 4 to 8 mechs. We are using weapons and systems we never bothered with before like tags.

ECM has forced us to work together with new weapons and new mech`s so we can win. We have to aim shoot and position ourselves accordingly to succeed. I`m glad for ECM It has made us all more knowledgeable and better mech warriors instead of back of the bus mindless auto lock on auto win snore fest.

The way we used to play is dead! Adapt or die!

[Inviticus]

Bluten, on 14 December 2012 - 06:55 AM, said:

You shouldn't like choices in a game that are completely ineffective or useless due to faulty game design/balance. You shouldn't like how devices can serve no purpose. You shouldn't like how guns can be too weak to be worth their weight. We already had things like this before(Cough Flamer cough), well, now we have more of them. They should work towards reducing this number, not increasing it.

I totally agree.

Why did the Developers decide to add more functionality to ECM than it had in table top? It should only add more time to lock-on and not also shield you from radar and prevent locks completely. All for a paltry Tonnage cost. How is this thing balanced?

[ZonbiBadger]

Ecm is just fine. Learn to tag is my suggestion.

[Inviticus]

ZonbiBadger, on 14 December 2012 - 06:58 AM, said:

Ecm is just fine. Learn to tag is my suggestion.

Except tag is useless within the bubble.

[Syche22]

Recently started running 2x LRM 20s on my atlas to zombie for kicks and giggles and I can tell you that I am really really happy that I started playing this game post ecm. I can't imagine having 5-6 lrm boats on a team with no ecm...just seems incredibly lame. I'm still scoring 1k+ points a game with ecm. Hell I've seen people apologizing for running LRMs and destroying everyone because they still acknowledge that they are really boring and lame.

Not sure about the "brawler kids" comment either. I still see plenty of matches where people are sniping with ER PPC/gauss/LL.

[DrBunji]

Codejack, on 14 December 2012 - 05:36 AM, said:

OK, I was trying to be polite about it, but every thread trying to find common ground gets spammed into oblivion by people flat out lying about the state of the game so they can keep their shiny new toy. I like the idea of ECM, but this is just stupid.

Enough.

Obviously, we are staking out initial positions in the debate as to how much to lessen the effects of ECM, so here is my position:

Remove it entirely.

Start over from scratch and come up with a completely new system, because this one is ruining your game, and before anyone screams, "It's Beta!" people are choosing whether or not to spend money on this game based on its current state, and right now, most of us are looking to put our cash elsewhere.

Remove it entirely, nerf it into oblivion along with everything else, or see the game die.

You keep popping up in threads, never making a good argument and just stating that ECM needs to be removed or else. How about you learn to play instead. Really.

[Joseph Mallan]

Hellion, on 14 December 2012 - 06:58 AM, said:

Ok guys lets take a step back here, If you take a look at the game pre ECM, quite frankly it was really boring. Tons of lights with streaks, streak cats, LRM boats sitting on hills with impunity. We used to run 4 mans as all lrm boats or small light streaks, or even streak cats. It was mindless, skill less, and boring. We won every single match easily. Now with ECM`s in the folks that I run with have diversified They have been forced too. We have guys now running in every single weight class with and without ECM`s. Guys developing brawlers that don't have auto lock on. Guys that still carry streaks but less and the same with LRM`s. We have to work together and run mech`s that compliment each others skills. We have to plan for all scenarios and spread it out between 4 to 8 mechs. We are using weapons and systems we never bothered with before like tags.

ECM has forced us to work together with new weapons and new mech`s so we can win. We have to aim shoot and position ourselves accordingly to succeed. I`m glad for ECM It has made us all more knowledgeable and better mech warriors instead of back of the bus mindless auto lock on auto win snore fest.

The way we used to play is dead! Adapt or die!

Before ECM I was running an Atlas-D(brawler/Gauss), Hunchback-4SP(Lasers & SRMS), Jenner-D(Lasers). Post ECM I run an Atlas-D(Brawler/AC20), Atlas-D-DC(Brawler/AC20ECM), Cicada-3M(Lasers/ECM), Centurion-A(AUltra/lasers/SRM)... how did I change my game? I have 2 Mechs with ECM IF my team needs them. My payload hasn't changed (since I got a computer that has frame rates to be happy with). I do miss being able to provide fire to assist my teammates anywhere on the battlefield, Now I have to be close to help out.

[Chrithu]

After playing with ECM and non-ECM mechs alike, adapting my playstyle to the new situation I have come to the following conclusions:

The only bad mechanic about ECM is the stacking effect and the need for the same amount of counter ECMs in the same area that comes with it. That needs to be reworked so that one counter ECM counters all ECMs in it's area.

Other than that the problems that are arising due to ECM are Problems caused by the rest of the equippment not being in line.

This means:

Streaks badly need the anounced change to their damage spread (they hit every mechpart on random not only torso parts) to finally happen. This should make the ECM Streak COM a lot less of a problem.

BAP needs a buff to become an equally useful tool.

If those changes are made ECM is just fine. But even without those changes the situation isn't so bad that ECM needs to be removed.