59 replies to this topic

[AllOuttaBubbleGum]

Streak cats, LRM spam, Jenner spam, blah blah blah. None of it bothers me with good team work. Teamwork, Team work, Team work. All my problems have something to do with that and not so much the shiney toys or mechs. When 4 mechs run off and chase one jenner there's a problem and it aint the gadgets.

[RG Notch]

Hilarious, if things aren't going your way resort to name calling and whining. Yep everyone who doesn't want ECM just wants their OP toys. Then these folks wonder why they don't get traction in their complaints. No one could possibly have any other reason for keeping ECM in for now while it's worked on. Oh well everyone wants easy mode brawling or wait is easy mode pressing R for no skill lock ons. I'm unsure which group is whinier. Anyways good luck getting people to agree on either side when your tactics are just name calling and bitching.
The real answer lies in the middle but to debate their requires more than just saying the other side is stupid and wants it easy.

[Wraith05]

I do like ECM as it is now. Though I do think it needs a strong counter item. Say let a BAP equipped mech able to spot/target all but an ECM mech (effectively disabling the bubble). Or artemis LRMs have normal lockon to mechs cloaked in ECM (still need spotted).

But, just like when LRMs were king, the problem I find isn't that the game with the most ECM mechs wins, it's that it promotes games of 4-6 of the same type/class of mech.

And currently light/fast mechs are king in this game due to how damn hard it is to hit them. ECM just increases the number of fast mechs in game since all but 1 ECM chassis can go over 120kph.

[Hellion]

Joseph Mallan, on 14 December 2012 - 07:09 AM, said:

Before ECM I was running an Atlas-D(brawler/Gauss), Hunchback-4SP(Lasers & SRMS), Jenner-D(Lasers). Post ECM I run an Atlas-D(Brawler/AC20), Atlas-D-DC(Brawler/AC20ECM), Cicada-3M(Lasers/ECM), Centurion-A(AUltra/lasers/SRM)... how did I change my game? I have 2 Mechs with ECM IF my team needs them. My payload hasn't changed (since I got a computer that has frame rates to be happy with). I do miss being able to provide fire to assist my teammates anywhere on the battlefield, Now I have to be close to help out.

Maybe you should change than ..... Just saying ...

[MaddMaxx]

Inviticus, on 14 December 2012 - 06:58 AM, said:

I totally agree.

Why did the Developers decide to add more functionality to ECM than it had in table top? It should only add more time to lock-on and not also shield you from radar and prevent locks completely. All for a paltry Tonnage cost. How is this thing balanced?

Reading FTW.

Quote

"
Description

The Guardian ECM Suite was introduced in 2597 by the Terran Hegemony^[1]. Designed to interfere with guided weaponry, targeting computers, and communication systems, the Guardian is typically used to shield allied units from such equipment by emitting a broad-band signal meant to confuse radar, infrared, ultraviolet, magscan and sonar sensors.^[2] Affected systems include Artemis IV, C3 and C3i Computer networks, and Narc Missile Beacons. A Guardian can jam a Beagle Active Probe (or its Clan equivalent), but the probe-equipped unit will be aware of the jamming. The Capellan Confederation expanded the utility of the Guardian even more with the introduction of Stealth Armor.^[3]
The greatest drawback to the Guardian is its limited range, which extends out to only 180 meters. Sensors can sometimes override this jamming, though by that point the enemy unit is already within visual range and can track the opposition with their own eyes.^[2]

Sounds pretty f'ing close to what we have now according to the Rules...

[WarfieldSRT]

My issue with ECM is that the way it works simply doesn't make any real sense on a battlefield. This is coming from a very avid CMD-2D pilot, mind you. My issue is that, logically, the ECM should have no effect on mechs that are outside of its effective range.

AMS and COVER would still be your best defense against LRMs.

If an ECM mech is near you, you're jammed, period. You can't lock on with any guided weapon while within 180m of an enemy ECM in Disrupt mode. That makes your foward scouts also function as LRM defense. If they can get within 180m of LRM boats, their guidance systems are neutralized. This is good from the risk/reward aspect. Right now the lights can just stay with the heavies and provide protection. With my plan the lights would have to put themselves at risk in order to keep their heavies from getting LRM'ed to death. The life of a Light mech should not be an easy one.

ECM needs to counter Streaks. Without that feature, SSRMS would dominate again. That being said, the obvious defense to a ECM light crashing the party for your LRMs would be another ECM that could run as Counter. A light with it's ECM jammed is really an easy kill. Also, while ECM would counter streaks, the mech would have to be within 180m to do so. This opens up that "20m window" people keep talking about to more like 90m. This means that in order for a light (I keep saying light beause it doesnt seem like many people complain about the D-DC) to neutralize your streaks, he has to cross that 90m window carefully, and most likely approach more strategically, instead of just running in because he knows he's invincible to missles.

Of course, Counter ECM is fine the way it is, I think. And I think with the 180m range limitation (right now, ECMs range is effectively unlimited) you could easily justify packing that much power into a 1.5ton module. This might make using ECM seem more of a choice, like AMS. Right now I see lights without ECM and shake my head. ECM is just SO effective that I'm not sure why you'd want to run a light without it.

[Joseph Mallan]

MaddMaxx, on 14 December 2012 - 07:24 AM, said:

Reading FTW.

Designed to interfere with guided weaponry, targeting computers, and communication systems, the Guardian is typically used to shield allied units from such equipment by emitting a broad-band signal meant to confuse radar, infrared, ultraviolet, magscan and sonar sensors. Affected systems include Artemis IV, C3 and C3i Computer networks, and Narc Missile Beacons. A Guardian can jam a Beagle Active Probe (or its Clan equivalent



Sounds pretty f'ing close to what we have now according to the Rules...

Reading FTW... I don't seem to read the word STREAKs in the above text... Can you read the word STREAKs in the above text?

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 14 December 2012 - 07:30 AM.

[Grraarrgghh]

Maybe if you guys keep making more threads it will happen.

Pubbie logic.

[JAFO]

Codejack, on 14 December 2012 - 05:36 AM, said:

OK, I was trying to be polite about it, but every thread trying to find common ground gets spammed into oblivion by people flat out lying about the state of the game so they can keep their shiny new toy. I like the idea of ECM, but this is just stupid.

Enough.

Obviously, we are staking out initial positions in the debate as to how much to lessen the effects of ECM, so here is my position:

Remove it entirely.

Start over from scratch and come up with a completely new system, because this one is ruining your game, and before anyone screams, "It's Beta!" people are choosing whether or not to spend money on this game based on its current state, and right now, most of us are looking to put our cash elsewhere.

Remove it entirely, nerf it into oblivion along with everything else, or see the game die.

It is nice that you are trying to be polite by it so I will return that same respect but you have no idea what Mechwarrior or Battletech is about, if you did, you would not make this statement.

1st of all, This is also a TEAM game, not a 1st person shooter. If you want this to be a 1st person shooter then you found the wrong game to play. This is a Battletech game, and ECM is a major part of Battletech. To remove ECM would be to ruin the entire concept of Mechwarrior.

Your probably not having fun because you play solo, and this game is NOT for the solo player. You should find a team to play with. A team that is willing to teach you what this is all about.

[Schlaung]

ITT: downsy mouth-breathers

[WarfieldSRT]

Joseph Mallan, on 14 December 2012 - 07:28 AM, said:

Reading FTW... I don't seem to read the word STREAKs in the above text... Can you read the word STREAKs in the above text?

Maybe you should use some context clues to connect the dots between Streaks and Guided Weaponry. Ignoring that simple connection seems like you're being intentionally ignorant. Given that it also lists a wide aray of electromagnetic waves that are jammed as well, and our missles are not heat guided, wouldn't it seem logical that streaks and LRMs would be included here?

[Boymonkey]

OMG OP how many threads are you going to start about this?
Oh and stop with the threatening tone eh?
Leave if you do not like it eh?
The first week everyone used ECM now 50% of games I play there is no ecm mech at all.
Just leave please and stop cluttering up the boards with your bleating.
Boo Hoo Hoo waaaaaa go on cry more.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Bluten, on 14 December 2012 - 06:55 AM, said:

You shouldn't like choices in a game that are completely ineffective or useless due to faulty game design/balance. You shouldn't like how devices can serve no purpose. You shouldn't like how guns can be too weak to be worth their weight. We already had things like this before(Cough Flamer cough), well, now we have more of them. They should work towards reducing this number, not increasing it.

I would type an intelligent response, but honestly I am not really sure what you are talking about?

I think you are saying I shouldn't like the ECM because it doesn't work, but it is working (maybe a bit too well). Or do you mean it is a poor response to the massive use of LRMs and SRMs, but what normal response to it could there be?

I do agree that the game has a handful of balance issues. I think with time PGI will find a happier medium,although it will never satisfy everyone (hasn't yet).

I do like the ECM because it prevents the curtain of LRMs. I noticed that most ECM machines are lights (very few Atlas ECM mechs out there), and lights have free run off the battlefield because of lag shielding and no knock-down. I get ran into lights all the time now. Once knockdown is back in, lights will have to tread a little more carefully (a stationary light due to falling down is a dead light). Once that and the net code is cleaned up a bit, the ECM lights will need to be more careful when they start dancing around in your line. I think you will find the ECM system will be easier to deal with then. We will see though.

On a side note, If there was one change to ECM that might make a bit of difference, it would be that ECM jams ALL missiles. Maybe a mech carrying ECM can't carry a lock on missile as well due to jamming side effects. That might help a bit too. Don't know, just brainstorming.

[Joseph Mallan]

WarfieldSRT, on 14 December 2012 - 07:38 AM, said:

Maybe you should use some context clues to connect the dots between Streaks and Guided Weaponry. Ignoring that simple connection seems like you're being intentionally ignorant. Given that it also lists a wide aray of electromagnetic waves that are jammed as well, and our missles are not heat guided, wouldn't it seem logical that streaks and LRMs would be included here?

And the list is then defined when the statement

Quote

Affected systems include

leaves out Streak missiles. Artemis and Narc are guided are they not? So if streak was meant to be included they would be in the wording. The affected equipment is specified for clarity. Exclusion of Streak from the list is only an accident if there is a quotable amendment to the Entry. Show Us this amendment, and I will agree with you.

Quote

The Angel ECM Suite represents a great advance in ECM technology from the standard Guardian model. Within its 6 hex radius of effect, the Angel suite completely blocks the following systems on enemy units: Artemis IV, Artemis V, Beagle Active Probes, Bloodhound Active Probes and their Clan equivalents, C3 Master Computers and C3 Slaves, Streak Missile Launchers and Narc missile beacons. Streak missiles may be fired at units affected by the device, but they function as standard missiles.

here is the system that affect Streaks. but they do not block them completely.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 14 December 2012 - 08:03 AM.

[Malevolent Twitch]

MaddMaxx, on 14 December 2012 - 07:24 AM, said:

Reading FTW.



Sounds pretty f'ing close to what we have now according to the Rules...

Actually, no. It does not say, can not be spotted/targeted for indirect fire without the use of tag or disrupts streak systems. What we currently have in play is much more akin to the "Stealth Armor" or "Null Signature" systems. And in case you're wondering, no i do not have an LRM or Streak boat in my stable.

Edited by Malevolent Twitch, 14 December 2012 - 08:00 AM.

[bug3at3r]

These topics are always amusing.

Edited by bug3at3r, 14 December 2012 - 08:02 AM.

[stjobe]

Joseph Mallan, on 14 December 2012 - 07:53 AM, said:

And the list is then defined when the statement
leaves out Streak missiles. Artemis and Narc are guided are they not? So if streak was meant to be included they would be in the wording. The affected equipment is specified for clarity. Exclusion of Streak from the list is only an accident if there is a quotable amendment to the Entry. Show Us this amendment, and I will agree with you.

LRMs are unguided weapons in BT:

Quote

First introduced in 2400 by the Terran Hegemony, Long Range Missiles are designed to engage the enemy at great distances at the expense of damage dealt. Adapted towards the profusion of electronic jamming on the battlefield and the effectiveness of current armor designs, these missiles are capable of indirect fire and disperse over a smaller area than Short Range Missiles. Inner Sphere LRM launchers achieve this range by firing at a ballistic launch angle, making them less accurate at close range.

In MWO LRMs are guided, hence it makes sense that ECM affects them.

Streaks are also guided, both in TT and in MWO. Why shouldn't a system "designed to interfere with guided weaponry" affect them?

[Jacmac]

Codejack, on 14 December 2012 - 05:36 AM, said:

Remove it entirely.

No, I like ECM, you need to learn to live with it.

[Mr Steik]

Can't we just turn all our mechs into mobile homes and join a hippy commune?

[Dakkath]

Closing this thread as its a duplicate thread about a subject that has a dedicated feedback thread which we are shuttling users to.


Please use this thread for further ECM discussions, we appreciate it VERY much.

http://mwomercs.com/...4-ecm-feedback/