124 replies to this topic

[Samaritan]

Hon. Mechwarriors;

The good folks at FASA started tacking adjectives and special ammo onto the AC platform precisely because they do, indeed, suck. If you are using the specialty ammo, flak services, and ultra/LBX/RAC specialty cannons, they begin to make up for thier excessive weight. Anyone who has asked why so many mid range chaseys mount an AC5, has never enjoyed skeet shooting spiders, and jenners with accurate ammo, or swatting VTOLs with flack guns. They can be made to be useful, but this was a playtest retrofit for the game system.

Respectfully

Samaritan

Edited by Samaritan, 30 May 2012 - 01:03 PM.

[Your Worst Nightmare]

Cause an AC20 can actually fit sometimes, duh!

[Steel Talon]

gauss win range
AC/20 win cqc

problem solved

[Lightdragon]

let me think here... gauss rifle has better range.. but ac20 hits harder once in its optimal making it ideal for brawlers

[Anixantheas]

As already stated, In a cityfight, I'd rather have an AC/20, in an open field I'd rather have a guass. It also would depend on play style. There will always be a soft spot in me for the AC/20 thanks to my starting in 3025, you know, back during the real battletech times. When you couldn't go stomping around the field firing everything and the kitchen sink and still have heat to spare.

[Davers]

With the double armour and structure values the Gauss no longer is a "1 shot and limbs pop" weapon. While it hits hard, and at range, it will require more hits than in TT or previous MW titles. Combined with a possibly slower firing time, and you will see it's not the weapon for all occasions.

[RangerRob]

Davers, on 31 May 2012 - 09:27 AM, said:

With the double armour and structure values the Gauss no longer is a "1 shot and limbs pop" weapon. While it hits hard, and at range, it will require more hits than in TT or previous MW titles. Combined with a possibly slower firing time, and you will see it's not the weapon for all occasions.

That is a good point...
That means there will be no 1 shot head caps.

(9x2) + (3x2) = 24 overall points in the head. Even safe from the AC20...the Gauss won't even punch internal on the 1st hit where the AC20 will.

[Blackhawker]

Regardless, I'll still be sticking an AC20 on my 'Mech even if the Gauss is overall 'better'

[Rodney28021]

Strum Wealh, on 18 May 2012 - 04:34 AM, said:

Based on David Bradley's statement in Q&A 05, I would doubt that they would implement the TT Gauss Rifle's 60 meter minimum range - a solid slug has no arming distance and is not subject to the effects of a field inhibitor, so giving it a minimum range would, as with the lighter ACs, be difficult to justify without sounding too silly.

From the gameplay videos released thus far, it seem that one unit of AC ammunition equates to one shell (as opposed to "high-speed streams of high-explosive, armor-piercing shells" - verbiage taken from the glossary of the Legend of the Jade Phoenix onmibus).

If the S7 rules are used as a reference, the AC-20 and the Gauss Rifle have the same recycle time (7.5 seconds), indicating that they were on some level intended to have similar or close recycle times.
Time will tell whether the Dev's use a similar philosophy for MWO.
Though, the Hunchback in the Medium Mech Developer Breakdown (~1:05-1:25) demonstrates an AC-20 with a recycle time on the order of ~5-7 seconds...

At that point:

• The AC-20 is one ton lighter (a ~7% difference).
  
• The AC-20's standard ammunition canonically costs half as much per ton as that of the Gauss Rifle (10K c-bills for the former vs 20K c-bills for the latter).
  
• The AC-20 delivers five additional units of damage per salvo (a ~33% difference).
  
• If the feature is implemented: the AC-20 would have access to a variety of munitions (for 3049: Standard (HEAP), flak, incendiary, and tracer), making it more versatile.
  
• If the feature is implemented: the AC-20 is more commonplace and "lower tech", so it may(/should?) have lower maintenance costs than the Gauss Rifle (while still having the same acquisition price), making it cheaper over time.

The AC-20 is, IMO, essentially the elephant gun to the Gauss Rifle's sniper rifle.


"An elephant gun is a large caliber gun, rifled or otherwise, so named because they were originally developed for use by big-game hunters for elephants and other large dangerous game... Whether double rifle, single shot, or bolt action the concept of the elephant gun is the same: to provide enough stopping power to prevent harm to the hunter in the case of charging game."
"In military and law enforcement terminology, a sniper rifle is a precision-rifle used to ensure more accurate placement of bullets at longer ranges than other small arms... The term is often used in the media to describe any type of accurized firearm fitted with a telescopic sight that is employed against human targets, although "sniping rifle" or "sniper's rifle" is the technically correct fashion to refer to such a rifle."

Your thoughts?

I guess it will depend on the map. If it is the wide open spaces, i would prefer the gauss rifle. If it is in heavy city, canyons, tunnels, narrow confines, i would like the AC/20. Do we know what the targeting response rate, recharge rate, recoil effect, minimum range effect for gauss rifle vs AC/20? Oh did the devs add the effect of being hit by 20 plus points of damage in a turn causes rolling a piloting check for fall. That could be a good knockback effect that other games use for crowd control. The AC/20 is short range stopping power with ok heat, and gauss rifle is long range sniping power with very low heat.

Edited by Rodney28021, 31 May 2012 - 01:08 PM.

[Rodney28021]

Shirow, on 29 May 2012 - 10:45 PM, said:

@tuhalu question bro?!

Couldn't you Just use CASE for your Gauss Rifles in the section containing the Gauss Rifle to protect internal components in the event the weapon explodes.??

Why just not have both AC/20 and Gauss rifle, the best of both worlds??!

In CBT, IS CASE only worked in L/R torso locations and still didn't help if you had the XL Engines. The CASE mk2 and Clan CASE worked in arms. It might be different effect in this game.
yeah, you can try that on an Atlas or the 85 ton'er variant = Gauss and AC/20

[Protection]

Depends on the game, but traditionally in Mechwarrior computer games, Autocannons fire much faster than Gauss rifles, with less of a cooldown. So, while the gauss has range, accuracy, ammunition and heat advantage, the autocannon can flat out wreak havoc if it can get within range - causing far more damage is far less time. Assuming that this will more like previous Mechwarrior games.

[Cerlin]

I personally hope the devs will continue the trend of the previous MW games where the Ac20 has a much better rate of fire compared to the gauss rifle. It is a fair trade in my opinion. Gauss gets range, ac20 gets ROF and damage.

I personally love both weapons, it just depends on the situation for me.

Edited by Cerlin, 01 June 2012 - 01:08 PM.

[John Clavell]

Remember, AC20 and Gauss ammo both cost the same amount in TT. I'm a guass man personally.

[Davers]

AC/20 is 5 shots/ton/10,000 Cbills
Gauss is 8 shots/ton/20,000 Cbills

according to TT anyway.

[Xandre Blackheart]

Minimum range, just like LRMs....whetherr they implement Minimum range is another matter.

[Sassori]

Sure. 20 points is more than 15. That alone makes it worth it in some situations. The Gauss Rifle is a good weapon but so is the AC-20. They do /drastically/ different battle field roles. One is a brawling weapon, one is a long ranged weapon.

I personally don't like ammo weapons that go boom most of the time, so I'd be avoiding both of them usually but they do have their purposes.

[Lightfoot]

It will come down to the map and tactics used. Hunchback can work at close range and move fairly fast, so maybe you could get away with using an AC20 on open maps. An Atlas would drop the AC20 for the Gauss, except on city maps. It's hard to tell for sure before playing the game, but on open maps the AC20 will get less shots than the Gauss because the time it takes to get into range.

[StarColonelBicen]

Speaking of Gauss Rifles, i just want to address something that was NOT addressed in Previous Mechwarior games. Internal Ammo Explosions on Gauss ammo?! How can a Steel Ball explode?! Theres no gun powder in a Gauss ammo ball.

The Definition of a Gauss rifle is essentially a rail gun. A mass driver, using a particle accelerating magnetic field to drive a steel ball through the air at a high velocity.

I hope the Developer (AND USERS) understand(s) this...

Edited by StarColonelBicen, 03 June 2012 - 07:55 PM.

[wanderer]

StarColonelBicen, on 03 June 2012 - 07:51 PM, said:

Speaking of Gauss Rifles, i just want to address something that was NOT addressed in Previous Mechwarior games. Internal Ammo Explosions on Gauss ammo?! How can a Steel Ball explode?! Theres no gun powder in a Gauss ammo ball.

The Definition of a Gauss rifle is essentially a rail gun. A mass driver, using a particle accelerating magnetic field to drive a steel ball through the air at a high velocity.

I hope the Developer (AND USERS) understand(s) this...

Gauss ammo never exploded to begin with. The gun ITSELF will, if critted.

And the AC/20 is quite simply damage above all else. Nothing (at least till the heavy Gauss) hits as hard or does it better at this point in single-point damage. The standard Gauss rifle is one of the best "main guns" in the game, however- and better compared with the ER PPC and UAC/5 in MWO.

[Masterofm]

People have talked about RoF, Tonnage, Heat and a few of the other things that generally come up when dealing with the Gauss rifle vs. the AC/20, but one other thing I'd like to bring up and that's stunning your opponent.

With a fast cycle rate, and a high tonnage mech you can cycle blast a light mech with AC/20's and basically keep them from having a hell of a time targeting you. I always prefer 100 ton mechs that are bralwers because when someone goes to aim and power up a shot I smash them with 1-2 AC/20's and watch as their shots fly wide. Then follow it up with constantly knocking them off their guard by cycling my AC/20's effectively pinning other mechs if done right. Knock out their legs so they can't run and begin to focus on body shots to finish them off.

As the Gauss rifle didn't cycle fast enough to make this a viable tactic AC/20's were amazing for keep mechs pinned in close range combat.

Edited by Masterofm, 03 June 2012 - 08:36 PM.