70 replies to this topic

[Sifright]

yashmack, on 15 December 2012 - 03:45 AM, said:

Im pretty sure an SRM is a missile
Missiles have fins and rockets do not
missiles are guided by their fins and powered by rocket motors
thats my interpretation anyway

from merriam webster:

Spoiler

rock·et noun, often attributive \ˈrä-kət\
Definition of ROCKET

1
a : a firework consisting of a case partly filled with a combustible composition fastened to a guiding stick and propelled through the air by the rearward discharge of the gases liberated by combustion
b : a similar device used as an incendiary weapon or as a propelling unit (as for a lifesaving line)
2
: a jet engine that operates on the same principle as the firework rocket, consists essentially of a combustion chamber and an exhaust nozzle, carries either liquid or solid propellants which provide the fuel and oxygen needed for combustion and thus make the engine independent of the oxygen of the air, and is used especially for the propulsion of a missile (as a bomb or shell) or a vehicle (as an airplane)
3
: a rocket-propelled bomb, missile, projectile, or vehicle

missile noun
Definition of MISSILE

: an object (as a weapon) thrown or projected usually so as to strike something at a distance <stones, artillery shells, bullets, and rockets are missiles>: as
a : guided missile
b : ballistic missile

No you are wrong.

See posts above as to why.

[GoodVindicator]

Soon we will see 3xSsrm2 ecm commandos en masse. Then all will be clear for everybody. Ssrm2 is broken beyond repair. Putting ECM on 3 missile slot commando mech was stupid idea by the devs. Com will counter ECM and kill by pressing button and nothing another light can do about it. Brilliant idea indeed!

Edited by GoodVindicator, 15 December 2012 - 04:35 AM.

[I Just Ate Your Grapes Bro]

Captain Midnight, on 15 December 2012 - 03:44 AM, said:

That sounds dangerously like saying "let's teach the controversy in schools" about evolution/creationism. Here in reality ECM+Streaks wins every game and I have a 10:1 win ratio to prove it. If I had my ideal group of 8 players and 8 mechs every game we literally would never lose because when that group assembles we do in fact literally never lose.

5xAtlas DDC, 3xRaven 3L. That is the *perfect* team. That team, assuming equal skill on both teams, will beat the team that is running not that.

ED: Dear saytan, have you got a team, would they like to scrim? I'll teach you a thing or two if you do, but I somehow know you don't...

"We've proven that we can stack weapon systems AND communicate using voice and manage to come out on top...."


Congrats... we all proved that day 1.... You haven't found anything new, you aren't the end-all-be-all of skill. Clearly your "team" is terrible... you can't win without 8 ECMs and 8 mechs with streaks on em? Sad. The rest of us enjoy mixing things up a bit.

I also find it hilarious that you're here screaming that the best missile is the one that has 100% hitrate. The rest of us are aware that skill can make up for dumbfiring missiles, if you don't miss with your SRMs, then clearly they are a better choice than streaks simply because you don't have to worry about ECM. If you like to hide further from enemies, guess what, streaks are USELESS to you....

The best missile weapon is the one that fits your playstyle, you've made it clear you need the one that does the smart part of hitting the target for you, for me, the best missile weapon is no missiles.

Edited by Ehrithane, 15 December 2012 - 04:41 AM.

[S3dition]

Captain Midnight, on 15 December 2012 - 04:26 AM, said:

Long story short, and to put us back on topic, SSRM2 > any other missile, unless you have less ECM than they do, in which case you lost anyways thanks to the power of SSRM2.

Actually, SSRM are not as powerful as everyone claims. They are severely limited (270m max with no long range). Every other weapon has a long and max range. They don't work against ECM targets, which now dominate the battlefield. Ironically. Sandpit and I had this discussion long before ECM was live. Most imbalances are imagined because their counter isn't active yet. Now that ECM is active, LRM's and SRM's are nearly useless. There are some enterprising individuals that can use them to good effect, but this is not the rule, it's the exception.

[GoodVindicator]

Ssrm2 boaters have ECM to counter enemy "anti-ssrm" ecm. Raven and commando both have missile slots AND ssrm onboard.

[S3dition]

GoodVindicator, on 15 December 2012 - 05:24 AM, said:

Ssrm2 boaters have ECM to counter enemy "anti-ssrm" ecm. Raven and commando both have missile slots AND ssrm onboard.

Which amounts to nothing, really. Ravens are considered the worst of the light mechs and 3 ssrm's aren't all the great. The only issue has come from the A1, which can run 6 (or 2x as many ssrm2).

[Sifright]

S3dition, on 15 December 2012 - 04:43 AM, said:

Actually, SSRM are not as powerful as everyone claims. They are severely limited (270m max with no long range). Every other weapon has a long and max range. They don't work against ECM targets, which now dominate the battlefield. Ironically. Sandpit and I had this discussion long before ECM was live. Most imbalances are imagined because their counter isn't active yet. Now that ECM is active, LRM's and SRM's are nearly useless. There are some enterprising individuals that can use them to good effect, but this is not the rule, it's the exception.

More proof that you really don't know what you are talking about.

The SSRM light mechs use ECM to counter enemy ECM meaning their streaks work fine.

S3dition, on 15 December 2012 - 05:28 AM, said:

Which amounts to nothing, really. Ravens are considered the worst of the light mechs and 3 ssrm's aren't all the great. The only issue has come from the A1, which can run 6 (or 2x as many ssrm2).

You are a bit behind the times aren't you?

The Raven is now the best light mech.

The jenner is now the worst.

Keep up man the game has changed.

[Tickdoff Tank]

The SSRM is a good weapon, but it is hardly OP. The only time the SSRM is really deadly is on the Streak Catapult, but those are pretty rare these days, and they are not that hard to kill anyway. The SSRM trades high damage for consistant damage, but it still has a very limited range.

[S3dition]

Reading comprehension helps here

Lets break down my post:

1) Light mechs WITH ECM only have 50% of the missile hard points required for the loadout you are complaining about. A commando can only hold 3x SRM. That's 3 SRM. Only 3. Did you miss my text? Only 3 Short Ranged Missile.

2) The mech everyone complains about is the A1. That can have 6x SSRM. It has no ECM. Lets confirm: IT HAS NO ECM. Need another? NO ECM ON THE A1.

Okay, so what were you saying?

Oh, something about jenners being the worst light mech, despite their very high performance stats. ECM isn't everything, young padawan. Keep up with the times, and you'll learn

[Khobai]

SRMs should lock on, they have tracking systems which is why they benefit from Artemis and NARC.

MRMs and Rockets are the dumbfire missile weapons of the battletech universe.

[Sifright]

S3dition, on 15 December 2012 - 05:37 AM, said:

Reading comprehension helps here

Lets break down my post:

1) Light mechs WITH ECM only have 50% of the missile hard points required for the loadout you are complaining about. A commando can only hold 3x SRM. That's 3 SRM. Only 3. Did you miss my text? Only 3 Short Ranged Missile.

2) The mech everyone complains about is the A1. That can have 6x SSRM. It has no ECM. Lets confirm: IT HAS NO ECM. Need another? NO ECM ON THE A1.

Okay, so what were you saying?

Oh, something about jenners being the worst light mech, despite their very high performance stats. ECM isn't everything, young padawan. Keep up with the times, and you'll learn

Show me a Jenner pilot that will kill a Raven pilot running ECM and Streaks.

THere isn't one because the horrendous netcode means the streaks will decimate the jenner pilot.

The A-1 was the worst example of streak boating. It's mostly dead now thanks to ECM.

However the Commando and the Raven both run streaks to ludicrious efficiency because with ECM and Netcode they are practically invulnerable.

The person struggling to comprehend anything is your self.

The game has changed and you don't seem to grasp or understand all the changes.

Streaks are still over powered. It just requires a little bit more finagling to get working right and they can still be boated on ECM mechs.

acting like the commando is some how ineffective when it runs half the streaks of an A-1 is kind of hilarious given that it still chops down light mechs incredibly fast.

Edited by Sifright, 15 December 2012 - 05:42 AM.

[S3dition]

And yet people on my 4 or 8 man get 1 shot by AC20's and Guass...

Surprising that the SSRM2 is overpowered but the AC20's can one shot without a mention. Must be that time of the month...

I mean patch time!

[Sifright]

S3dition, on 15 December 2012 - 05:49 AM, said:

And yet people on my 4 or 8 man get 1 shot by AC20's and Guass...

Surprising that the SSRM2 is overpowered but the AC20's can one shot without a mention. Must be that time of the month...

I mean patch time!

if your team are one shotting lights you must be coming up against some real duffers my friend.

Leading lights with AC20s would make such a hit a miracle given the netcode.

[Tickdoff Tank]

Sifright, on 15 December 2012 - 05:41 AM, said:

Show me a Jenner pilot that will kill a Raven pilot running ECM and Streaks. (I see this all the time. Raven's are good, but so are Jenners, Ravens were not killing Jenners all that much before ECM and Jenners do not rely on SSRMs to do their killing. Well, the good ones don't)

THere isn't one because the horrendous netcode means the streaks will decimate the jenner pilot. (Nope, the SSRMs can be outrun and out maneuvered by a good pilot, and a good pilot will also have back up)

The A-1 was the worst example of streak boating. It's mostly dead now thanks to ECM. (Streak cats are an endangered species right now. And their threat was always over-stated by poor pilots. You had to treat the Streakapult with respect but they were never deserving of fear, except by poor pilots, and they have lots and lots to fear already)

However the Commando and the Raven both run streaks to ludicrious efficiency because with ECM and Netcode they are practically invulnerable. (They are not that hard to hit and they make a great "SPLAT" sound when you hit them)

The person struggling to comprehend anything is your self. (Right back at ya')

The game has changed and you don't seem to grasp or understand all the changes. (see above comment)

Streaks are still over powered. It just requires a little bit more finagling to get working right and they can still be boated on ECM mechs. (Streaks are not OP, not at all. They spread damage better, require lock, can be blocked by ECM, have limited range and require ammo. Stop complaining about them and learn to beat them. Then you can move on to complaining about the AC20 or the UAC5, or whatever floats your boat)

acting like the commando is some how ineffective when it runs half the streaks of an A-1 is kind of hilarious given that it still chops down light mechs incredibly fast. (the Commando is a good mech and the SSRMs are a good weapon for them, but being "good" does not mean OP. I routinely see Commandos getting ROFLstomped by thinking that ECM makes them hard to hit. It makes them hard to lock on to, not hard to kill.)

Responses have been underlined for your reading enjoyment. Have a nice day.

Sifright, on 15 December 2012 - 05:50 AM, said:

if your team are one shotting lights you must be coming up against some real duffers my friend.

Leading lights with AC20s would make such a hit a miracle given the netcode.

Apparently miracles happen almost every match.

[S3dition]

Uh... I mean the other way around. I should have made it more clear... WE'RE the ones getting killed in a single shot. My A1 was killed multiple times both before and after the "OMG I'LL NEVER PLAY THIS GAME AGAIN BUT WHINE IN THE FORUMS FOR YEARS!" patch. Generally, it was from AC-20 and Gauss. Then by AC2 and 5 fire from the Cataphract.

[GoodVindicator]

The point is you can be killed by AC20 Gauss etc but only IF player actually aims not by pushing the button after quick lock. Right now team with most ssrm2 on lights decimate enemy light mechs and after this its usually quick cap. Also i think ssrm2 bots is not far behind as you dont need to program bot to aim.

Edited by GoodVindicator, 15 December 2012 - 06:04 AM.

[Sifright]

S3dition, on 15 December 2012 - 05:52 AM, said:

Uh... I mean the other way around. I should have made it more clear... WE'RE the ones getting killed in a single shot. My A1 was killed multiple times both before and after the "OMG I'LL NEVER PLAY THIS GAME AGAIN BUT WHINE IN THE FORUMS FOR YEARS!" patch. Generally, it was from AC-20 and Gauss. Then by AC2 and 5 fire from the Cataphract.

I've not faced this problem my self.

The AC20 cat sacrifices an awful lot to make the build so as far as i'm concerned it's kind of crap and can only work well in a few situations.

SRM6 cat doesn't make any sacrifices and gets to fit full sized engine.

[S3dition]

Sifright, on 15 December 2012 - 06:07 AM, said:

I've not faced this problem my self.

The AC20 cat sacrifices an awful lot to make the build so as far as i'm concerned it's kind of crap and can only work well in a few situations.

SRM6 cat doesn't make any sacrifices and gets to fit full sized engine.

And before that you complained about SSRM. Next you'll complain about PPC or the RAC series.

[Draxtier]

Captain Midnight, on 15 December 2012 - 03:44 AM, said:

That sounds dangerously like saying "let's teach the controversy in schools" about evolution/creationism. Here in reality ECM+Streaks wins every game and I have a 10:1 win ratio to prove it. If I had my ideal group of 8 players and 8 mechs every game we literally would never lose because when that group assembles we do in fact literally never lose.

The difference between this and the creationism / evolution debate is that evolution is a well established theory originally laid out in the scientific treatise The Origin of Species, which contained exhaustive empirical data to support the theories and conclusions of the preeminent Charles Darwin. The theory of evolution has since been tested and substantiated by a hundred fifty years of science which creationists choose to ignore because it is the only way they can reconcile the cognitive dissonance of the apparent contradiction between their religious convictions and evolution.

Your thesis, on the other hand, is your opinion, substantiated by anecdotal evidence which doesn't prove or substantiate any of the assertions you make and won't stand up to testing.

You have a 10:1 win/loss ratio because you run with a team that coordinates and communicates well. You could pilot horrendously made mechs, have poor individual FPS skills individually and still manage a high w/l ratio because you run with a team that coordinates and communicates well and you are fighting against teams which do not.

When (and if) the matchmaking system ever gets fixed, and your well organized team is consistently put up against other, similarly well organized teams, which causes your w/l ratio to swing back toward 1:1, (as it should for everyone, if the matchmaking system is working correctly), you're going to need to come up with better arguments than "I have a high win/loss ratio, therefor I'm right"... and that will be just a little bit closer to teaching the controversy than this is because you're going to have to deal with the cognitive dissonance created by the apparent contradiction between your perception of your own skill and your results.

Have a great day!

[Tickdoff Tank]

Sifright, on 15 December 2012 - 06:07 AM, said:

I've not faced this problem my self.

The AC20 cat sacrifices an awful lot to make the build so as far as i'm concerned it's kind of crap and can only work well in a few situations.

SRM6 cat doesn't make any sacrifices and gets to fit full sized engine.

I love seeing an AC20 Cat on the other team. It can be a tough build to play and a tough build to play against. While engaging one your margin of error is very small. One good shot from 2 AC20s can ruin your whole day, but (as you pointed out) the Cat makes sacrifices to mount that weaponry. If you can get the drop on them they go down pretty quick, but if they know their stuff then they can put a hurtin' on you quick.

I like seeing them because it means I either get a good fight or a quick kill.