91 replies to this topic

[Sprouticus]

Bel has it spot on, but I would also like to point out that I like the idea of being able to play a game in Asia-Pac or Euro time zones if I happen to be on vacation or have a Friday morning off (like today!) without having to start a whole new character.

The thing is, I cannot think of a single reason why you would need to limit cross region play. Keep the user accounts unique, and replicate the data from one server to another. I do it every day at work, across all 3 primary regions. It is eminently doable. If someone comes up with a way to abuse this (cant think how, but Ill admit maybe Im missing something), then you could put a 1 transfer /8 hours or 12 hours limit to prevent region hopping.

Like I said in a previous post, I could see some concern about people intentionally playing cross region for lag shield reasons, but honestly if you are in North America and play in Euro Time zones during evening NA time, it WILL be a ghost town. Why do that for some small advantage. I know I wouldn't.


In a perfect world, region is just part of the matchmaking system. It would be a hard limit (unlike # of people in the team which might be a soft limit), but I still think running all users from a single metagame server farm, and then pushing to instanced servers which are co-located in the region the person selects would be the best model. It means you only have 1 metagame, and thus keeps the community more tightly bbound.

Not to mention it might be cool to wake up and find out that there was a major offensive in Europe while I was at work, or a huge push in Asia-Pac while I was sleeping....

[pesco]

Garth Erlam, on 17 May 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

So I got an official explanation: You will sign up for a specific region (North America, Europe, Asia, etc) but you do not have to be from that area.

So, each Merc Corps needs to choose a region, and all members join that region.

So erm, wait. Does this mean you can't play against people/corps from a different region? ***?!

This would likely mean: I can't play the Russians, I can't play the Australians, I can't even play the German next frackin door! Because for my Corp the NA region happende to be the best middle ground. I repeat: W.T.F.?!

I understand that it's not a trivial task to find a server with acceptable ping for all members of a match if they are from widely dispersed areas, but seriously, it can't be impossible to perform a best effort that works well in 90% of cases. Region splitting on the other hand would completely destroy the sense of community within, well, the community.

/o\

[CoffiNail]

pesco, on 18 May 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

So erm, wait. Does this mean you can't play against people/corps from a different region? ***?!

This would likely mean: I can't play the Russians, I can't play the Australians, I can't even play the German next frackin door! Because for my Corp the NA region happende to be the best middle ground. I repeat: W.T.F.?!

I understand that it's not a trivial task to find a server with acceptable ping for all members of a match if they are from widely dispersed areas, but seriously, it can't be impossible to perform a best effort that works well in 90% of cases. Region splitting on the other hand would completely destroy the sense of community within, well, the community.

/o\

Update on the opening post

[pesco]

CoffiNail, on 18 May 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

Update on the opening post

None that answers the question, though?!

The "official explanation" does not answer this question: Can you play against people/corps who signed up for a different region?
In fact it seems to imply a restriction, otherwise why would you need to sign up for a specific region?
And if the answer to the above question is "no", all my remarks (and similar ones by others) apply and it's the Worst Possible Idea In The World ™.

Edited by pesco, 18 May 2012 - 11:12 AM.

[Heron]

Will content be region based as well?
If a corp has to be specific to a region then they will have to fight other corps specific to that region over planets that are specific to that region. A faction could be winning on one side of their territory and losing on the other but can't do anything about it because the players on the winning planets can't fight on the losing planets.
It shuts down the concept of a dynamic universe.

If the servers are 24/7 and can be selected by each player then entire regions could be ignored. All Players from NA and EU could log into the NA server. The time difference wouldn't matter because there would always be players to play with in the proper timezone.

The regional servers are most likely a logistical and financial decision due to PGI being currently unable to secure a more ideal system.

[Threat Doc]

Here's my recommendation, for those of you who care to entertain it, allow your unit to have multiple iterations. That way, you have one forum/portal, and all of your people are able to participate in the unit, overall, but the separate iterations mean you can have a presence in multiple time-zones. The problem is trusting folks enough to give them rights and permissions to make edits and have their command in those particular regions. This is something we're going to talk about at the next leader meeting for AU.

[Outlaw2]

Garth Erlam, on 17 May 2012 - 11:43 AM, said:

What would you guys prefer, a WoT style "Do you want: Russian (or) North American?" for your account, or to pick a region when you first log in, or something else?

Hey Garth I'm sure you guys are aware of this, but I'll show it to everyone here.
Global Agenda has a good compromise on how to handle this I think.

Quote

SERVER REGIONS: There is no longer a drop-down to select your server region on the Mission screen. Instead, your default server region (North America, Europe, etc.) is chosen automatically when you login, based on your IP address. You can modify your default server region on the SETTINGS menu. When you queue for a mission, you will be paired in matches with others from your default server region, unless no match can be made within a reasonable waiting period, at which point, you may be matched onto another server region. If you do not wish to ever be matched into a match on another server region, you may uncheck the flag to "Match on other Regions".

This was from a patch note from 2010. I'm not sure if they are still doing it like this, but it seems like a good way to handle it.
http://store.steampo....com/news/4374/

Edited by =Outlaw=, 18 May 2012 - 12:37 PM.

[Victor Morson]

I must admit, I really like the idea of selecting regions at matchmaking and NOT at character creation, for a few reasons. Namely I'd love to play with folks from ELH and such again and they are a Russian unit; thinking of them being isolated onto the Euro server is pretty disappointing.

Also, we have several UK players in our unit and it's pretty unfortunate that when they're not dropping with us NA folks, they can't play together on Euro servers.

[MausGMR]

I think this is possibly the first real indication we've got that they plan to do region based universes, so that we may in fact, find ourselves with a version of the 'Inner Sphere' across each different timezone.

Ultimately, if this is the plan of the team, it's pretty disappointing. Day Z manages to pull character information from a central database to any server you connect to and sort you out with your character without any major issues (apart from some lag because of massive increases in popularity later, not really an issue considering it's an alpha build from a tiny mod project), are we looking at the possibility that this title will not have that?

Look at your competition guys, whilst there isn't any straight F2P Mech games on the market atm, the best examples in terms of alternative F2P games with great models includes the critically acclaimed and recently released Tribes Ascend. You can change your region at will in that game, connect to custom servers all over the globe, and join friends from different regions regardless of what your default region is. Are you saying that you aren't going to be able to provide the same level of network service that a competitor with a similar product and level of experience can provide?

I think we need to draw attention to this issue and go through quite considerably, how much of an issue this is. Whilst a lot of the forum goers here may be happy to talk about pink mechs and which type of legs look the best in CBT art, the fact is this is the kind of stuff that matters.

There have been some great posts here so far with some very good points about why this is a problem, especially when concerning things like ghost server times.

Please take heed devs, this is VERY important.

[Outlaw2]

Quote

with one very positive note in the Region Selection being clarified for everyone.

With all due respect, Im not sure how clarified or positive it was. It sounds like once you choose a region for your character that character is locked into that region permanently. I hope this not the case, and that you are able to switch region much like you can in GA and the new Tribes.

Edited by =Outlaw=, 18 May 2012 - 05:00 PM.

[Banditman]

As few options as possible, please. Dividing the community = BAD.

EVE got it right. One server.

[Victor Morson]

The biggest problem in a game like this, regionally, is the ping in-game which is entirely different from the Metagame; I really don't see the need to separate hat between regions.

That said, in a worst case scenario at least Euro players can create North American accounts to play with their teams - that is better than the worst case scenario by far (I'm right now playing Megamek with one of our long time UK members!) so it's not doomsday if this doesn't happen. But it'd be great if it could.

[John Clavell]

I feelings are. Most Mechwarrior units are multi time zoned. I can only think of a handful who are not. And obviously these people want to play together. You should allow players to switch servers, that is the best case option, even if there has to be a time delay say 1 hour between switching regions to allow your data to be updated and transferred to the other server, or hell, just mirror player data across all region servers and let plays change server on the fly.

My bet is, the North American Servers will be packed out! While the European servers will be quite. Not because EU players don't want better pings, but because they want to play with their team mates.

[John Clavell]

Banditman, on 18 May 2012 - 05:16 PM, said:

As few options as possible, please. Dividing the community = BAD.

EVE got it right. One server.

They did get it right. But EVE is not a real time action / sim game. EVE is based on 1 second ticks. Actions get added to the list to be processed.

I feel there should be region servers to host matches, there should be a central server though which deals with the persistent aspects of the game and player stats. The region servers should just send the data back to the main server. If you change from EU to US region you then that central server is still communicating with your account and sending, recording the relevant data tied to your personal account.

[DarkJackal]

Garth Erlam, on 17 May 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

So I got an official explanation: You will sign up for a specific region (North America, Europe, Asia, etc) but you do not have to be from that area.

So, each Merc Corps needs to choose a region, and all members join that region.

Hi Garth!

There may be confusion on what being in "region" would mean between local region secure login and post login process playing with everyone. Post secured login to the region of your choice, can you setup a team together from users from all parts of the globe?

It would probably be best to provide a short dev blog on the AAA login process and post login process to clarify things.

Thanks!

DJ-

[Victor Morson]

John Clavell, on 18 May 2012 - 11:29 PM, said:

They did get it right. But EVE is not a real time action / sim game. EVE is based on 1 second ticks. Actions get added to the list to be processed.

I feel there should be region servers to host matches, there should be a central server though which deals with the persistent aspects of the game and player stats. The region servers should just send the data back to the main server. If you change from EU to US region you then that central server is still communicating with your account and sending, recording the relevant data tied to your personal account.

Yep, you nailed it pretty much. The metagame doesn't even run at a pace similar to EVE; it could literally lag 300-400 ping and you probably wouldn't even notice at all.

It's only once you get into the actual drop does region and ping really matter, from a gameplay perspective. That's why it'd be really neat if the metagame servers were sync'ed and what region of gameplay servers you want to host can be chosen at the matchmaking lobby. i.e. "Search for Servers in: US, Europe, Asia", etc.

Of course that's assuming we'll have dedicated servers. A lot of games have gone the peer to peer route, but that is a horrifying thought.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Victor Morson, on 20 May 2012 - 01:59 AM, said:

Yep, you nailed it pretty much. The metagame doesn't even run at a pace similar to EVE; it could literally lag 300-400 ping and you probably wouldn't even notice at all.

It's only once you get into the actual drop does region and ping really matter, from a gameplay perspective. That's why it'd be really neat if the metagame servers were sync'ed and what region of gameplay servers you want to host can be chosen at the matchmaking lobby. i.e. "Search for Servers in: US, Europe, Asia", etc.

Of course that's assuming we'll have dedicated servers. A lot of games have gone the peer to peer route, but that is a horrifying thought.

And this was the perfect idea of what MWO should be like, A Single Metagame that keeps the entire player base together.
Region options in game to say what servers you would prefer to play on so you could actually play on any region whenever you like, as with a single metagame your character is not locked to any region.
I still can not understand why with a game such as this you would want to lock people into set regions.

[OJ191]

Garth Erlam, on 17 May 2012 - 11:43 AM, said:

What would you guys prefer, a WoT style "Do you want: Russian (or) North American?" for your account, or to pick a region when you first log in, or something else?

I would greatly prefer region selection rather than region locking. That way you can have multinational clans who can play as a group on one region, but can also play separately with lower ping in their own regions. Ultimately I would prefer battlefield style servers (hosted basically everywhere and integrated via a master server) because it allows everyone to play with low ping, but I also understand why this is bad for what piranha aims to do with this game.

[Cifu]

Banditman, on 18 May 2012 - 05:16 PM, said:

As few options as possible, please. Dividing the community = BAD.

EVE got it right. One server.

The problem with your comparison to EVE is you can play and win against someone, when you have 200+ ping a space simulation game like the EVE. Well, still a handycap, if you have smaller ping than your opponent, but not that big.

But in an action game, like the MWO, play with 200+ ping against players, who have below 50 is a suicide.

Perhaps you won't encounter such thing, because you never play an action game where the server is placed on the other side of the globe (ie.: when you living in the US, you won't try to play an Chinese server). I'm encounter this problem many times, because i'm living in Europe, and many games had only servers in the US (or in Korea, for example). Well, i can tell you, it's frustrating...

I try to paint you:

You are an sniper mech, aim with your Gauss Rifle to the enemy Mech's head, and you know it, if you hit, you kill him. With ping at 50ms, you can notice, when you target stop, and if not move, and have a good chance to place your hit. If you have your ping at 200ms, there is a big chance when you seen the enemy mech head at the center of your crosshair, and push the button, your target is alreade move enough, to not hit it.

I had this problem in MWLL on several servers, and actually force me to abandon those time the sniper mech's, and go with LRM boats...

Edited by Cifu, 20 May 2012 - 07:40 AM.

[Belisarius1]

Cifu, on 20 May 2012 - 07:25 AM, said:

You are an sniper mech, aim with your Gauss Rifle to the enemy Mech's head, and you know it, if you hit, you kill him. With ping at 50ms, you can notice, when you target stop, and if not move, and have a good chance to place your hit. If you have your ping at 200ms, there is a big chance when you seen the enemy mech head at the center of your crosshair, and push the button, your target is alreade move enough, to not hit it.

I had this problem in MWLL on several servers, and actually force me to abandon those time the sniper mech's, and go with LRM boats...

I can tell you I was "an sniper 'mech", and I played with 250+ ping for the entire time I played MW4 in leagues, and 500+ ping for a year or two before that. I wasn't an amazing pilot, but I was my team's shooter and I could generally hit stuff, even at those pings. Any non-US player will tell you the same story. Ask the Russians, they're pretty scary. Also, ask the people determined enough to play MW3 online; books have been written on how to lagshoot in that game. MWO's netcode will blow those games out of the water.

In addition, games like MW are much more forgiving in regards to lag than twitch-based FPS. In a game like CoD it's quite normal to outright die in the ~200ms it takes your own bullets to cross the Pacific. Not so here.

High ping is certainly not great. Dealing with it requires familiarity as well as a significant dose of luck, but it's not the end of the world and not even close to a good reason to implement region locking.

Edited by Belisarius†, 21 May 2012 - 05:38 AM.