231 replies to this topic

[Shootanoob]

Just my two cents, so don'T kill me :-) :

1.) LRM damage is fine, but LRM should not work as guided missiles. Lock them once, keep your target aimed all the time until they hit, ok. maybe let them follew the target a little bit (some few meters to adjust movement), but not lt them chase a mech round the blocks.

2.) SSRM lock on timer should be reset after firing. Most ideally, the re-log-on should only get possible when the next volley is ready to be fired (so that's basically prolonging the time needed between SSRM shots, making you stay more in the open and giving the opponent the chance to teach you not to hit him).

3.) ECM is a bit to powerful, agreed. There are some means to put an end to it:

• let it work against everyone inside the bubble (regardless from which team)
  
• let it prevent new lock-ons but not break already fired weapons' lock (which would, in regard of 1.) and 2.) does only mean that LRM still hit somewhere near the target and SSRM would remained locked)

In the meantime, if you think ECM is too powerful, just bring a TAG to help your missile-buddies from the other end of the map and they'll be having a field day eating the enemy alive. (won't help overly much against those wee buggers running around with the ECM, but does it pretty much for their mean big brothers - once they're off the table, smash the wee ones with all the rest you can bring in).

[Deadoon]

Felix, on 30 December 2012 - 09:25 PM, said:

Oh I know, but with PGI's history of making things work, I figure a flip of a coin might be easier for them to implement over randomized damage location

Or they could just do the simple method and make the missiles have no collision with environment, but not launch without line of sight and make each missiles go directly to a body part damaging it instantly, and make the missiles effectively a particle effect.

[Blue Shadow]

KuruptU4Fun, on 30 December 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

SSRM's require the lock to guarantee they all hit that way they save you the more expensive ammo you're paying for.

Your second suggestion wouldn't do anything but push people to only use 4 mechs out of the 12 we have.

Sorry I don't think your right on either point...

1. I know, they would save you ammo because they all hit the target 100% and often in the same location, they are light and do high damage making it easy to boat them and core your target with little skill, they are OP. More expensive ammo dose not balance the weapon at all. ECM has become a counter to streakcats. However it would be better if SSRMs were balanced rather then an indirect balance via ECM.

2. how is that different to what we are seeing now? I don't think you read my point correctly. By only needing one ECM to counter all enemy ECMs your team will not need 4 ECM mechs to counter your enemy's 4 ECM mechs. This would free up other member of your team to use the other non ECM mechs...

[Thorqemada]

LRM/SSRM be not OP, SSRM get some more nerf afaik (more randomizing of the damagespread) and LRM were almost on the spot b4 ECM.

The only thing that needed to be adresses was the possibility of excessive boating and using infinite chainfire modes through the design of Launchertubes and their affect on specific Launchers, the use of many Launchers (3+ of them.)

If one side has almost exclusive access to the use of one weapontype forcing players to abandon these weapon system or use a very limited amount of Mechs it is not an enrichment for the game or the tactics, its a reduction that makes the gameplay poorer.
Especially if its a matter of nothing but luck if you can use your weapon or not its an unfavourable game mechanic.

Curiosity, Boredom and Luck be no viable balancing mechnisms.

Edited by Thorqemada, 30 December 2012 - 09:49 PM.

[Stanton Langley]

Simple solution: don't allow LOWs on any chassis that can mount ECM. Problem solved.

[ConnorSinclair]

The problem with Streak2's is this.

MW3

Streak2's do 1.5 damage just above small lasers
Streak2's have a turning radius

MWO

Damage of a Medium Laser
Never Miss, AKA Magic turning radius.

The problem with LRMs is this.

Too much damage for a no risk weapon

LRM5 = AC10

LOLOL

[dcwoods]

LRMs are far to powerful without ECM and totally ineffective with it. That needs to change. No LRM should track on a raven at 300+ meters that does not have ECM the way I have witnessed many times. I have many times watched LRM 15 and 20's chase down a comando, jenner or raven by turning 90 degrees in chase to impact the rear shields many times taking it out. This should not be. On the other hand ECM should not act like a force shield.

[KuruptU4Fun]

Prior to the latest patch (I'm talking about the patch where ECM was introduced) any 1 ECM mech countered all other enemy ECM's. This latest patch brought out the 1 for 1 ECM block, so either the people who initially saw that the patch notes under the ECM intro patch basically states "STOPS MISSILES" a month ago didn't read the 1 for 1 block or just still see it as an end all be all in mech modules.

[Shootanoob]

Stanton Langley, on 30 December 2012 - 09:49 PM, said:

Simple solution: don't allow LOWs on any chassis that can mount ECM. Problem solved.

... ok, that would also solve the problem, and in a very easy way.

To that "LRM = too much damage for a low risk weapon"-topic:

That's what artillery options are for - much damage from distance. If they hit to hard, just move in closer.
If the follow-on-target thing is meant, well, just look up my post above, I do also not like it. But the damage per shot is fine.

Edited by BigPuma, 30 December 2012 - 09:58 PM.

[Sayyid]

The problem isnt really that LRMs are lock on, well in a way it is. LRMs should not be a lock on weapon to start with which is a problem on a development level. LRMs should be an unguided weapon much like SRMs. But the current system makes them pretty much Streak LRMs, which is a HUGE problem.

I think if this amongst other issues the game would improve greatly. But the other issue is in the ECM system, and how it is incorrectly implemented in game. ECM shouldnt jam everything past 180m, it should only jam everything WITH IN 180m. Which is the exact opposite of how it works in game currently.


But this is just a guy who played the TT point of view what do I know about the franchise.

[ConnorSinclair]

BigPuma, on 30 December 2012 - 09:56 PM, said:

... ok, that would also solve the problem, and in a very easy way.

To that "LRM = too much damage for a low risk weapon"-topic:

That's what artillery options are for - much damage from distance. If they hit to hard, just move in closer.
If the follow-on-target thing is meant, well, just look up my post above, I do also not like it. But the damage per shot is fine.

LRM20, 38 damage
LRM15, 30 damage

AC20, 20 damage

http://youtu.be/ljjkO5rZNcI

Edited by ConnorSinclair, 30 December 2012 - 10:09 PM.

[Shootanoob]

If you ever hit with all missiles, you were right.

Sadly, that's not reality.

Additional, LRM damage tends to splatter, AC damage only does if chosen so (LBX).

LRM damage can be prevented by AMS, AC damage cant.

Still do not see your point, sorry.

As said above: Lock = evil; if you think that's why they do to much damage, we're in the same boat.

[ConnorSinclair]

BigPuma, on 30 December 2012 - 10:18 PM, said:

B-but muh splash damage

You aren't going to miss any damage when striking an assault

Go to hell.

[Shootanoob]

Is that my fault that an Assault is that big?

On the other hand, you hardly miss an Assault with any kind of weapon pointing the vague direction of that Mech.

so, go first.

[ConnorSinclair]

BigPuma, on 30 December 2012 - 10:38 PM, said:

Is that my fault that an Assault is that big?

On the other hand, you hardly miss an Assault with any kind of weapon pointing the vague direction of that Mech.

so, go first.

No, but it's negligence when asking for this kind of thing.

There are mediums bigger than some heavies.

This whole thing about splash damage is just Crocodile tears.

LRM boats are too powerful when used by competent pilots and LRM indirect fire supports too many Incompetent ones with terrible builds.


There is a reason MW4 had LOS on LRMs.

[Thorqemada]

ConnorSinclair, on 30 December 2012 - 09:49 PM, said:

The problem with Streak2's is this.

MW3

Streak2's do 1.5 damage just above small lasers
Streak2's have a turning radius

MWO

Damage of a Medium Laser
Never Miss, AKA Magic turning radius.

The problem with LRMs is this.

Too much damage for a no risk weapon

LRM5 = AC10

LOLOL

Tell me how many AC10 shots you need to core or headshot an opponent and how many LRM5 salvos you need and about the time difference.
I think the AC10 is way ahead of the LRM5.

[Shootanoob]

See, here we go. Guess we are not that far away from each other than it seems:

Locking = evil, thats agreed by me three posts above already.

[Thorqemada]

LRMs must be lock on weapons bcs you wont hit a moving Atlas with them if they be unguided, their travel speed is extremely slow.

[Shootanoob]

Agreed, as they are at the moment, the only way to hit a sleeping whale with LRM is locking.

Speed them up and be fine.

[Jack Spade Ward]

Dont think ECM, SSRM or even LRM are OP. I actually think that it was well implemented, even acording to BT rules.
Loosers, stop whining, deal with it.
I did, i adapted to ECM. Me and my buddies made some tactics to overcome this.
Buy a 4X, put it four 5UAC and rip apart those pesky ECM ravens and even Atlas