231 replies to this topic

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Quote

the Null Signature System cloaked their heat output and electronic emissions. While the system is engaged, the 'Mech is more difficult to track at anything other than short range, with the Beagle Active Probe and its unbranded Clan equivalent unable to locate a hidden unit with its null signature system engaged. Only the modern and experimental Bloodhound Active Probe can penetrate the null signature masking.

I like how when ppl read this they stop at heat output and start screaming how this isnt what ecm is doing

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 15 December 2012 - 08:16 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Wispsy, on 15 December 2012 - 08:04 AM, said:

So it is OP because it is different from TT? Ok...

Well it's Op cause it blends the effects of Guardian and Angel ECM while still saying it is Guardian by specs. If it's going to have all the abilities of an Angel ECM then it should have the weight/crit specs also. Then I won't complain... much... I don't think I would... no, no I wouldn't.

[Aidan McRae]

Though I think ECM needs reworking, I take offense that my Centurion in is your 'No Way Jose' category. Game in and out, PUGing exclusively, I get 1-2 kills and upwards of 4, and have a win record of 2 out of 3. So, I really do think it's L2P, but ECM does need some fixes.

[SpiralRazor]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 15 December 2012 - 08:16 AM, said:

I like how when ppl read this they stop at heat output and start screaming how this isnt what ecm is doing

LOL...yeah right? They read a description while completely passing over the rules for it...

[Chrithu]

Are we now discussing about ECM again?

The ECM per se isn't OP. It's design is slightly flawed in terms of the stacking mechanic. The BAP as the other Information Warfare device is immensely underpowered (some say useless) in comparison. And the Streaks that were out of line already before we got ECM get even more out of hand when combined with ECM.

So ECM just needs a slight change that wouldn't nerf it in any way, which would be that one ECM counters all disrupting ECMs in it's range.

The BAP needs any sort of buff.

And the Streaks are already anounced to get a small nerf to their damage focus. If that isn't enough then the AMS should get a buff vs Streaks (which it should get anyways with SSRM 4 and SSRM 6 coming anytime in the future).

[Boris The Spider]

No I read the whole thing. I also read :

Quote

A Guardian can jam a Beagle Active Probe (or its Clan equivalent), but the probe-equipped unit will be aware of the jamming.

So, as the GECM is meant to block the BAP anyway you cant claim that the GECM is inheriting its BAP blocking from the NSS rules.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Jason Parker, on 15 December 2012 - 08:18 AM, said:

(which it should get anyways with SSRM 4 and SSRM 6 coming anytime in the future).

dont forget lrm streaks eventually

Boris The Spider, on 15 December 2012 - 08:20 AM, said:

No I read the whole thing. I also read :



So, as the GECM is meant to block the BAP anyway you cant claim that the GECM is inheriting its BAP blocking from the NSS rules.

um... I didnt I was talking about this part:

Quote

the Null Signature System cloaked their heat output and electronic emissions. While the system is engaged, the 'Mech is more difficult to track at anything other than short range,

bolded to help where its pertinant here in this game since people seem to get hung up on the heat part of it

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 15 December 2012 - 08:22 AM.

[Wolfways]

Captain Midnight, on 15 December 2012 - 06:24 AM, said:

We are not staying true to canon Mallon, at all. Not even close. Canon went out the window a LONG time ago and good riddance. I can't believe that with 1.4 heatsinks, non-canon Large Lasers, non-canon LRMs, non-canon SSRMs, non-canon hardpoints, non-canon engines... In fact, what is canon? Names? Mech names? Mech art designs? This game ain't canon and it never will be, it never was, and it's better for it.

So...why exactly are you playing a BT/MW game?

[Sym]

My problem with this line of thinking is..."lets get rid of Brand X, because I do not like it"

Now, are LRM's really to OP? yes and no. LRM's are OP in their damage of 1.8 points instead of the TT rules of 1 point. Besides this fact, LRM's are not OP. If you were smart and you saw "Incoming missles" you would look for cover instead of charging forward like I see people do daily! There are many ways to overcome LRM's that do not involve nerfing.

Now SSRM's are a different story but once again there are ways to correct this beside..."nuking them into a sheet of glass". Reduce the damage from 2.5 points to 2 points as per the TT rules and increase the recycle time.
Besides, be glad the SSRM 4 & 6's have not yet been fielded. The Inner Sphere will not get these until 3058...however, the clans have had them since 2826. So you will see them within the year when they invade.

All this whining about LOWS...As memory serves, I do not remember the outcry when PGI removes mech knockdowns, limited engines ratings in mechs or the Guass durability nerf.

So now that we have entered the age of only Autocannons and Lasers...what will be nerf'd next?

Edited by Sym, 15 December 2012 - 08:46 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 15 December 2012 - 08:21 AM, said:

dont forget lrm streaks eventually

And Thunderbolt LRMs... the ones that fire a single Missile that pinpoints teh full damage on one location! Those ones totally rock!

[Boris The Spider]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 15 December 2012 - 08:21 AM, said:

um... I didnt I was talking about this part:

The Null Signature System cloaked their heat output and electronic emissions. While the system is engaged, the [color="#b27204"]'Mech[/color] is more difficult to track at anything other than short range,

bolded to help where its pertinant here in this game since people seem to get hung up on the heat part of it

ECM equiped mechs are impossible to track at short range though because they jam your targeting. These are not similar. If a mech was using a NSS then the targeting would come back online at 180M instead of going offline at this point. NSS is a type of ECM but it works in a different way to G-ECM.

[Liberty]

Greetings,

Okay, I pilot both Jenners and Ravens. The Raven use to consistently lose to the Jenner and now that it can actually beat one does not mean it is OP. That just means the Jenner is not not the only viable light anymore. It still has more energy hard points so if your trying to out streak a ECM 3Lyou are going to lose. Jenner's have advantages like jumping over terrain and are better suited than Ravens on certain maps. The other two Ravens in comparison are horrible with slower engine speeds and they can't even mount ECM to make up for it. I plan on using both with my selection depending on the map when hopefully we get to choose where we fight.

That being said I think ECM does too much but Nerf is a strong word. I'd rather break some of it up into modules and let the pilot choose his ECM specialty. A Light mech is going to want to have null sig and be able to break LRM locks while they spot from a hidden position. Ankle biter Light mechs will also want null sig for sneaking up and backstabbing Assaults. Assaults with ECM will want the ECM bubble so as to bubble and hide the position of the lance. My suggestion is to give ECM some broad abilities such as countering and then specialty module abilities for Elite pilots. The other route to go is to have Guardian ECM do some abilities and have Angel ECM do other abilities when it comes out. I think ECM works right and in itself is not OP but the Guardian does too much. Break the abilities up into specialties and limit how many one can have and it should be fine.

Possible suggestions for ECM Specialties can include: Jam LRM, Jam Streak , Null Sig, Detect Shutdown Mech, ECM Radar Cloak Bubble (counts as two spec since it cloaks the user in null sig also)

[Screech]

Just make it so ECM no longer affects SSRM. To compensate SSRM, needs to re-lock their target after each launch and only allowed to chain-fire. SSRM becomes support close combat weapon, and ECM is little bit less of a magical anti-missle cloak.

[KinLuu]

From a gameplay point of view, the fact that the only viable counter to ECM is ECM is the problem here. If you combine this with the fact that only a selected few mechs can mount ECM, a lot of mechs become unviable.

There needs to be additional ways to counter ECM. But not tag. Please not tag, it is so clumsy. At least give it a toggle, for the love of god.

[Liberty]

I don't have much of a problem with ECM jamming Streak especially when Clans roll out wielding Streak SRM 6 on everything. Then you will wish the IS mechs had a counter. However, I do like your idea of having to relock streak after firing. Would balance the Jenner vs Raven dogfights a bit. Taking it away completely would just put the Jenner in the King position again for dog fights.

[Joseph Mallan]

Liberty, on 15 December 2012 - 08:48 AM, said:

I don't have much of a problem with ECM jamming Streak especially when Clans roll out wielding Streak SRM 6 on everything. Then you will wish the IS mechs had a counter. However, I do like your idea of having to relock streak after firing. Would balance the Jenner vs Raven dogfights a bit. Taking it away completely would just put the Jenner in the King position again for dog fights.

This is when the Inner Sphere should develop/deploy Angel ECM, but your point is a valid one!

[Liberty]

KinLuu, on 15 December 2012 - 08:43 AM, said:

From a gameplay point of view, the fact that the only viable counter to ECM is ECM is the problem here. If you combine this with the fact that only a selected few mechs can mount ECM, a lot of mechs become unviable.

There needs to be additional ways to counter ECM. But not tag. Please not tag, it is so clumsy. At least give it a toggle, for the love of god.

I'd give TAG close to LRM like range and have the effects last significantly longer after you tag a mech. Trying to keep it steady on even a average moving mech is a pain, requires concentration (or rather distracts you from people gunning for you), and makes you a target while also revealing you position. I can see TAG working but it currently sucks.

[BoomDog]

ECM= Way, way, way too much bang for 1.5 tons.

SSRMs= OP because they always hit torso, spread damage all over and problem solved.

LRMs= I thought that before patch, LRMs were about right. It was easy to counter by just taking cover. It was forcing LRM boats to get in closer to the combat to guarantee a hit, which increased their risk. Ignore a mid-range LRM boat at your own peril.

PS: Absolutely right about ECM not working in pug matches.

Edited by BoomDog, 15 December 2012 - 08:58 AM.

[Corbon Zackery]

The beagle active probe seems to be broken or a dummie item beacause I just did a match and could lock my streaks do to low signal Str.

The other thing is I myself cant equip ECM on any of my mechs that I own yet every mech a found seems to have some sort of ECM that prevents lock.

I beleave the dev. are slowly building back to Missle Mech Warrior as they patch tighting the spread angle on LRM the arch a few meters each patch.

Its very strange time right now.

Edited by Corbon Zackery, 15 December 2012 - 09:01 AM.

[MasterGoa]

LRMs are not the issue because they do NOT work unless someone uses Radar.

ECM breaks the game, period, it is supposed to be Electronic Counter Measure.
Electronics. Radar, etc.

Missiles track with heat, it is an analog function, not a digital one.

I agree ECM has a place in the game, but it should NOT prevent lock when
you have line of sight, it jut doesn't work that way...

Also, ECM prevents you from recognizing your team mates.
I mean WTF? IR trackers anyone? This is how fighter planes
recognize each other in combat. It is LOS encoded IR beams...