24 replies to this topic

[Sky walker]

Anyone managed to design a successful counter against Raven 3L with ECM, Medium Lasers and Streaks?
Something that would (easily?) win a 1vs1 duel with it?

I think I tried everything below 60 tons with no success. Other Ravens, Jenners and Commando are a meat for it. Total waste of time to bother. Cicada in best case can pull down armor from it, but no chance to destroy the Raven. Other way around though it's quite easy, seems like Raven is almost a hard counter to Cicada (even 3M variant). Hunchback with huge XL and SRM6s might stand a chance, but only if Raven is focused on something else - if it's a Circle of Death then chances to win are slim at most. Centurion is a joke when it comes to duel with Raven. Unless Raven pilot is a total newbie - he will win, period.

I run out of ideas...
so, what are your successful counters against Raven? Preferably from Light or Medium Mechs
Cause using 100t Atlas D-DC to kill 35 tonner is a significant overkill to say at least

[Mordin Ashe]

If you are light mech it is impossible to counter it. If such mech attacks you, it will probably streak you to death.
Anything heavier and you have a change, but lag shield is annoying thing.

[Sky walker]

yea, well... that's why ACs don't really work on them unless you hit a lucky shot (with 2Gauss or 2AC20), but even then Raven have got significantly more chances of survival then any other Light Mech. No idea why is that though - as far as I observed it seems that even stupid commando suffers from less Lag Shield then Raven (or perhaps it's just so fragile, that most of the Mechs can handle it nicely...).

One thing though that's very confusing for me is why no other Raven variant allows ECM while this chassis was build for Electronic Warfare. IMHO all of the variants should allow ECM.
That is besides the fact that there's no reason to bother with any other variant if 3L is so amazingly good. I can't even recall any other Mech in entire MWO where one variant would be so amazingly good and others so underwhelming (perhaps besides gaussraves, but that's just one specific build that works under one specific condition, which still can be totally owned by 3L).

[Ryft]

I think you are giving the Raven too much credit. I've killed plenty of them when I was piloting my COM-2D. Just put your ECM in counter mode, and hit him with more streaks than he's hitting you with. It's a tough match up, but it can be won. You also have to be smart enough to stay with your group... lone wolfing it all the time means that you aren't subjecting his Raven to the occasional shots from your team (that do add up over time).

Some of this depends on what engine the Raven is mounting... if he's in a 295 or whatever and streaking by at 130+ kph, then you either need to go as fast, or be good at taking those shots of opportunity. Shots of opportunity are easiest for mechs with proper arms.

My suggestion is get an HBK-SP with a 245+ engine... XL engine is completely unnecessary. Learn to use that torso twist to your advantage, and learn to aim the 4MLAS mounted on the arms properly. Very lethal to light mechs, even without pulse lasers, and especially if you learn how to target legs properly. He can't circle that and expect to stay out of your blind spot forever, because an HBK has a very narrow blindspot... it isn't much wider than a Raven, to begin with. Stay with your group, and stand your ground. The Raven can't take as much damage as you can. Don't waste your missiles unless he screws up and gets caught on a piece of terrain or something.

[Jaded Jasper]

You pretty much have to out firepower them since they'll basically hit all the time, preferably in something moderately fast so they're not just running circles around you. I find lasers and SRMs work best.

Aim for the legs with lasers and just keep after them. It helps if you can work terrain to make them lose lock in between volleys. Make sure to lag lead your shots and check that you're actually doing damage.

SRMs pack great punch if you can stick them, and in many ways are easier to hit with than with lasers you have to maintain. Take something like a 3xSRM6 Centurion and POW! Possible to take out one of those little ECM Commando ******** in one shot.

[Sky walker]

Yea, I'm more interested in duels though, simply because defeating any Mech in a group isn't a problem that's not a point.

As for Commando - not really best idea IMHO mostly because usually if you play 8vs8 then enemy team is smart enough to one-shot-kill you before you tear through Raven armor (you got ECM == you are priority, you got ECM and shoot enemy ECM Mech == you are double-priority). Besides that - any skilled pilot usually will kill you with lasers simply because you have not enough armor to substain constant valleys of lasers and streaks. Raven does have.

As for shooting the legs - haven't seen a single Raven in 8vs8 matches that doesn't have full or nearly full armor on legs. Considering that Raven legs are small and move by far more then legs of any other light Mech - I found it easier to destroy Ravens by shooting torso then legs.

As for 4SP - guess I'll give it a try. Seems like it makes sense, and I haven't tried it yet. Though my experience with Cicada running similar setup is rather negative - wasn't even close to breaching through Raven armor with it. Cockpit shake from streaks + long duration of MLs isn't really a best mix got bit better results with MPLs.

Jaded Jasper, on 15 December 2012 - 07:29 AM, said:

Take something like a 3xSRM6 Centurion and POW! Possible to take out one of those little ECM Commando ******** in one shot.

Most of my Mechs can take out commando in single Alpha Strike That's not really exiting anymore

Stingz, on 14 December 2012 - 09:48 PM, said:

Quote

I just strapped in a 340 XL, did 4 ML and heat sinks, and resigned myself to the fact that a 3L will always, always kill me 1 v 1.

Funny since the Cicada was built to be hunting light mechs, not be hunted.

Yea... good to see I'm not the only one seeing something is wrong in here...

Edited by Sky walker, 15 December 2012 - 07:36 AM.

[MagicHamsta]

Sky walker, on 15 December 2012 - 06:41 AM, said:

Anyone managed to design a successful counter against Raven 3L with ECM, Medium Lasers and Streaks?
Something that would (easily?) win a 1vs1 duel with it?

Atlas with SRMs, lasers, and a large ballistic weapon.
One alpha strike & it dies.

As the raven be slower, a bit taller, and lack jumpjets compared to jenners, tis not that hard to land a good shot on them.

[BlackSquirrel]

LBX, pulse lasers. I've also seen them one shoted with SRM alpha.

Knee cap them and well thats the end of that raven.

Edited by BlackSquirrel, 15 December 2012 - 11:27 AM.

[HammelHauer]

MagicHamsta, on 15 December 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

Atlas with SRMs, lasers, and a large ballistic weapon.
One alpha strike & it dies.

As the raven be slower, a bit taller, and lack jumpjets compared to jenners, tis not that hard to land a good shot on them.

The raven has almost the same speed like the jenner if the pilot knows how to use the speed you will never kill a raven with a atlas. He only needs to use the speed and mobility to get behind you and you are dead.

I find it easier to destroy the legs instead of the torso at a raven. Use some pulse laser and aim to legs and if he dont lag only some hits and leg is down.

[Lefty Lucy]

The only counter is another 3L with ML and SSRM and better piloting.

[LionZoo]

6 ML Jenner F and aim for the legs? You need to pick the location that you fight carefully.

[MavRCK]

It's the pilot. There's no perfect hard counter to a Raven 3L - thank goodness. That said, the closest counter to a Raven 3L is:

A jenner 3F with 6 ML or 6 SL can kill a raven. JJ's make the difference plus extra lasers for extra dos = win. I can do it with just 4 lasers - JJs are OP. JJs let you decide when to engage and when to disengage... Don't underestimate this...

(Also, If you're lucky and get a crit on the ECM, in the other jenner variants, your streaks will be enabled and the duel is essentially over... It's funny to see ECM pilots stay in the duel when their ecm is destroyed... rare but it happens... don't tunnel vision when you can suddenly fire your streaks.. it can be the difference between the raven getting you.. and you getting them... )

A cicada 3M, with 4 ML or 4 SL, max armor, max engine. Counter plus more armour = win. (Cicada's are generally considered a light mech.)

A cicada 2A with 6 ML or 6 MPL - extra armour, extra dps.


That's considering light mechs...

Other mechs which are can counter a Rav3L are mechs with streaks (once the pilot gets within range .. ECM delays lock but doesn't prevent it in the 180 - 275 range... if you're not careful a streak cat can still kill a raven in 2-3 shots.. remember JJs are OP... ) KaoS's ace guass kitty pilots reguarly kill lights who get overconfident ... our assault pilots position properly and can take out a light pilot...

As a light pilot, I know when I face an ace pilot in a mech that can one-shot me so I avoid them and wait for a moment of opportunity. (It's the little things that define an ace... of course, sometimes you're dead before you have a chance to disengage, but "dems da bones".. scout and survey well in order to identify the better pilots..) I also know every counter to my mech - every place on the map that favours me and doesn't favour me... and why and when.. etc...

If you're having issues with a light mech, it's pilot skill and knowledge.

GL HF HH!

Mav

Edited by MavRCK, 15 December 2012 - 01:46 PM.

[Mr Steik]

Commando 2D

[Postumus]

I hate when people trash talk the other Raven variants. The problem is that people try to play them like Jenners. Ravens are not Jenners, they are not up-in-your-face attack lights meant to counter other lights. My supposedly trashy Raven 2X is the best light support mech that I've played so far, and the 4X, without any ridiculous gauss, can rack up 400 damage in a match consistantly.

[MavRCK]

Postumus, on 15 December 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

I hate when people trash talk the other Raven variants. The problem is that people try to play them like Jenners. Ravens are not Jenners, they are not up-in-your-face attack lights meant to counter other lights. My supposedly trashy Raven 2X is the best light support mech that I've played so far, and the 4X, without any ridiculous gauss, can rack up 400 damage in a match consistantly.

You're wrong. The 2x isn't viable.

It lacks dps and ECM. Most importantly the engine is key: it accepts up to a max 245 engine and has a top speed of 113.4 kph.

Any 3L, any jenner, the cicadas I posted will destroy you. You lack the speed to deal with faster and with heavier mechs.

I'm sorry, but it's obvious you don't play top competition-level via: your build, your mech choice, your posting of damage as a reference to viable play.

I know you "hate it" when people "trash talk" but you are also giving out misleading information and should stop doing so until you understand the game better. Read my guide on meta; join a top team - it will help.

GL HF HH!

Mav

PS: For new Raven pilots (2X, 3L, 4X). My recommendation to people who can afford it, and have the jenner (and / or commando) mastered, is to save your cbills and time , spend $5 on MC and convert GXP and XP and use that on the Raven 2X and 4X to unlock the basics and get elite and master on the 3L. At competition level, the 2X and 4X are 100% completely unviable mechs.

Edited by MavRCK, 15 December 2012 - 01:58 PM.

[parman01]

I'm running RVN-3L but only with 1x Streaks and 1x SMR-6. I cry when i meet Streak Commando with counter ECM in 1v1. I guess second Streaks instead of SRMs change whole thing but with my current build i get totally annihilated. (still I like keeping SMRs to have some punch against mediums and heavies).

Other guys that possess significant threat:

Dragons: these beasts are fast, good pilots with heavy guns in their arm they can punch hole through my Raven even in circle of death.

Atlases: smart pilots keeping their back to the wall, this totally cancels opportunity for kill - it's very difficult to chew through 100 points of armor in front CT and crossing their firing arc is utmost unrecommended.

AC20 / Gauss Cats / Phracts: able to one-shot fully armored Raven in side torso, with Cat's ability to twist torso almost 180 degree it creates quite a challenge for Raven pilot to stay out of firing arc.

Right now i can't think of any other builds that are particularly dangerous for Raven 3L.

[MavRCK]

parman01, on 15 December 2012 - 02:22 PM, said:

I'm running RVN-3L but only with 1x Streaks and 1x SMR-6. I cry when i meet Streak Commando with counter ECM in 1v1. I guess second Streaks instead of SRMs change whole thing but with my current build i get totally annihilated. (still I like keeping SMRs to have some punch against mediums and heavies).

Running 2 streak srm2 vs 1 ssrm2 1 srm6 nets you a damage difference of 10 (15 for the srm6, plus 5 for the ssrm2) - and the 2nd ssrm2 5 damage is guaranteed. At max speeds and dueling, srm6s are lucky shots at best. Furthermore, by fitting in the srm6 and its different ammo from the ssrm2, you have to give up on engine size and / or armor -- both of which allow give you a huge advantage over the 10 ton lighter commando.

Don't fear the commando, you have nearly twice the armor and twice the dps with 3 ML or 3SPL and 2 streak2s, plus a much faster top speed. Use the speed to your advantage to outmanuever him.

Mav

[Jaded Jasper]

Sky walker, on 15 December 2012 - 07:32 AM, said:

As for shooting the legs - haven't seen a single Raven in 8vs8 matches that doesn't have full or nearly full armor on legs. Considering that Raven legs are small and move by far more then legs of any other light Mech - I found it easier to destroy Ravens by shooting torso then legs.

Ravens are a bit of a pain to shoot in the legs, true. You can mitigate this somewhat by aiming just below the hip rather than at the kness -- their leg hitbox extends pretty high up.

My experience is that Ravens don't defend their legs as well as Jenners or Commandos, either because they don't think they have to, or just because they're slower.

I get most of my Raven kills by legging them, and only go torso if someone else has already heavily damaged them there. A few max the armor on their legs, but most don't.

Quote

As for 4SP - guess I'll give it a try. Seems like it makes sense, and I haven't tried it yet. Though my experience with Cicada running similar setup is rather negative - wasn't even close to breaching through Raven armor with it. Cockpit shake from streaks + long duration of MLs isn't really a best mix got bit better results with MPLs.

You can learn to shoot through the cockpit shake, as it doesn't actually affect your aim, and there are generally breaks in the streaking anyway.

I definitely prefer MLs of MPLs for anti-light duty, as you can often get great mid range shots on them while they're busy with someone else. Good pilots will generally be carefully about running directly towards or away from you, but when they're focused on another mech such clean shots are easy to line up and time.

[prox]

A good Hunchback pilot is the best counter.

[Jaded Jasper]

Postumus, on 15 December 2012 - 01:44 PM, said:

I hate when people trash talk the other Raven variants. The problem is that people try to play them like Jenners. Ravens are not Jenners, they are not up-in-your-face attack lights meant to counter other lights. My supposedly trashy Raven 2X is the best light support mech that I've played so far, and the 4X, without any ridiculous gauss, can rack up 400 damage in a match consistantly.

I always smile when I see any Raven variant than a 2L, as the others aren't anywhere near as much threat and it means one less ECM mech to face. Generally they're prime targets as they're not really fast enough for how fragile they are as well.