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I Will Not Spend A Dollar On Mwo Untill Ecm Is Gone...


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#101 Deadoon

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:27 PM

View PostKaijin, on 15 December 2012 - 03:19 PM, said:


This one post has confirmed my worst fear. This is the future of MWO. Challenges are annoying. Diversity is boring. Same brawler builds everywhere, with some ECM mechs thrown in.

No thanks.

Yes and lrm getting both a damage boost and 50% more ammo doesn't make them overly viable? Oh and srm in general getting a boost in damage, and removing any homing capacity of standard srm? I'm going to have fun with the vulture using clan lrm-10 and launching missiles like they were streaks at close range if they don't fix the lrm themselves.

Lrm do 80% more damage and have 50% more ammo than in tt.
srm do a mere 25% more damage.
Autocannons have on average 50% more ammo.

Which has the biggest buff here?
Lrm are overpowered. A single lrm 20 is supposed to do 20 damage scattered on and around a mech, not 36.

#102 Thorn Hallis

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:28 PM

I'll spend two dollars as long as ECM stays.

#103 Green Mamba

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:32 PM

Actually about 40 to 50 % of the games I have played today people were not even using ECM, so maybe the novelty is wearing off.Most of the people that hate it were the ones that depended soley on Cheese LRM or SSRM boats it seems to me

#104 Deadoon

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:33 PM

View PostGreen Mamba, on 15 December 2012 - 03:32 PM, said:

Actually about 40 to 50 % of the games I have played today people were not even using ECM, so maybe the novelty is wearing off.Most of the people that hate it were the ones that depended soley on Cheese LRM or SSRM boats it seems to me

Yeah, less people are using it, but I still run mine often enough that I can tell my win rate goes up while using it.

#105 xX_Nero_Xx

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:34 PM

only thing i see wrong with ecm is the fact the bap was made in tt universe to counter ecm and in here it does not do it, and in other prior mw games it did do that .
ecm in older games did block radar but you could still lock onto mechs just took a longer lock time.
they other games also was a single mech umbrella not anything inside a radius.
if they allow bap to be used like its suppose to be and counter ecm then missle mechjs be able to lock on but not share targeting info with others be a interesting thing.

#106 Deadoon

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:36 PM

View Postfccolhitman, on 15 December 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

only thing i see wrong with ecm is the fact the bap was made in tt universe to counter ecm and in here it does not do it, and in other prior mw games it did do that .
ecm in older games did block radar but you could still lock onto mechs just took a longer lock time.
they other games also was a single mech umbrella not anything inside a radius.
if they allow bap to be used like its suppose to be and counter ecm then missle mechjs be able to lock on but not share targeting info with others be a interesting thing.

But the beagle doesn't counter ecm at all... The BloodHound Active Probe does. Even in TT you had extra rules for ecm/eccm modes of the Guardian, which solidifies this.

#107 Walk

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:37 PM

I will not spend another dollar on this game if they remove ECM.

There, we cancel each other out. Now go **** yourself :)

#108 Kaziganthi

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:44 PM

View PostDeadoon, on 15 December 2012 - 03:27 PM, said:

Lrm are overpowered. A single lrm 20 is supposed to do 20 damage scattered on and around a mech, not 36.


Ok heres a deal..I'll go back to LRM's doing 1 damage per missile, Hell I'll even go back the standard ammo per tone on all missiles and ballistics....when your armour gets returned back to half it currently is and LRM'***** in groups of 5 per location, not the 1.8 per location spread we currently have.

That is..20 missiles pread over all parts of the mech 5 points at a time, rather than the current hit of 20 missiles 1.8 points at a time.

Or how about.."You are being target locked" whenever you pull the trigger on your energy weapon/ballistics as well as have their transit time reduced to the point that you have time to duck behind cover.

Or is that still to overpowered for you. I mean you can boat 9 mediums in a hunback and alpha strike for 45points on one location. Why shouldn't I be at least be able to hit 4 locations for 5 points each.. Oh wait I know why...because people don;t like to use terrain as tactics to hide from LRMs when they are in mid-flight causing the boats to run dry on missiles.

#109 Thorn Hallis

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:44 PM

View PostDeadoon, on 15 December 2012 - 03:36 PM, said:

But the beagle doesn't counter ecm at all... The BloodHound Active Probe does. Even in TT you had extra rules for ecm/eccm modes of the Guardian, which solidifies this.


ECM in MWO does more then ECM in TT. Therefor BAP in MWO could do more then in TT - so why not kill the counter mode of ECM and add the counter feature to BAP, while raising weight and slots for BAP and make it exclusive to the ECM 'Mechs. It would limit the "fighting capabilities" (i.e. the loadout) of the ECM 'Mechs.
Or raise tonnage/slots for ECM in the first place.

#110 xX_Nero_Xx

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:46 PM

there is more than one type of ecm in tt read more .the later version is the one that actualy blocked targeting the one we have now was mech to block radar and communication from c3 computers

#111 Deadoon

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 03:58 PM

View PostKaziganthi, on 15 December 2012 - 03:44 PM, said:


Ok heres a deal..I'll go back to LRM's doing 1 damage per missile, Hell I'll even go back the standard ammo per tone on all missiles and ballistics....when your armour gets returned back to half it currently is and LRM'***** in groups of 5 per location, not the 1.8 per location spread we currently have.

That is..20 missiles pread over all parts of the mech 5 points at a time, rather than the current hit of 20 missiles 1.8 points at a time.

Or how about.."You are being target locked" whenever you pull the trigger on your energy weapon/ballistics as well as have their transit time reduced to the point that you have time to duck behind cover.

Or is that still to overpowered for you. I mean you can boat 9 mediums in a hunback and alpha strike for 45points on one location. Why shouldn't I be at least be able to hit 4 locations for 5 points each.. Oh wait I know why...because people don;t like to use terrain as tactics to hide from LRMs when they are in mid-flight causing the boats to run dry on missiles.

Yes, lrm have severe downsides, but they don't need to have buffs to nearly 3 times tt values while everything elses gets a mere 50% bonus. Also did you ever stop and thing, hmm maybe lrm boats are a specialist position and lrms are meant for a support job not an all annihilating weapon system that has nearly the highest damage in the game universe and has the second highest damage per ton, only behind another missile system?
Srm in TT have semi homing capabilities, similar to that of lrm. Streaks are a upgrade for ammo efficiency, they have a 100% hit rate for comparison, but take longer to lock on and do not fire without a solid lock. That is the reasont the artemis system affects them. The autocannons in this game are close to correct but not quite there.

Lrm have been buffed so much that they needed something to counteract their effectiveness. Why is a support weapon doing more damage than all but the most powerful ballistics? The only ballistics for mech use that do more damage are the hag-40, which is effectively a lbx-40 and the UAC/20 which is really short range. The only missile system that compares to the current lrm is a lrm 20 with freaking dead-fire missiles, which have no homing capacity and are innacurate, or mrm 40 which weigh more.

Lrm do 1.8 damage and give you 50% more ammo than canon. This equates to a insane 2.7X damage potential of normal, they went from a soften them up a bit weapon to a battlefield dominator.

#112 Thorqemada

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:00 PM

ECM in its current implmentation not takes Skill, its a simple Switch and the side with 1 more Switch gets 100% of the prize.

As 3 of 4 ECM-Mechs be Ligths they also dictate the range of the combat for every other weight class, so its a complete impossibility to stay at ranges where a heavier non-ECM-Mech could target an ECM-Mech in the vulnerability range.
Also most of these ECM-Mechs use builds of "skillless" LRM/SSRM setups.

PGI has not nerfed SSRM/LRM - it has switched them simply useless for Non-ECM-Mechs and made them godmode for ECM-Mechs.

Edited by Thorqemada, 15 December 2012 - 08:57 PM.


#113 Sudden Reversal

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:32 PM

View PostPierce Rossignol, on 15 December 2012 - 11:43 AM, said:

I'll say it again. And again. And again.

ECM only highlights the lack of skill of players who apparently thought that left-clicking their way to victory made them good pilots. If you can't win without LRM spam, you don't play very well. Similarly, if you can't - or won't - communicate and coordinate with others on your team, you don't play very well. This is a team game. If you won't play the game the way it was designed to be played, then you have no right to complain.

ECM marks the first time that the Atlas is truly the most feared mech on the field. As an Atlas pilot, I can't wait for a netcode fix and the reinstatement of knockdowns so that we can get busy rightfully crumpling the cockpits of inferior pilots who count on lagshield and the suspension of all laws of physics to sustain them in a battle against an opponent three times their size packing ten times the ordnance.

As for ECM, it allows the Atlas to make it to the fight without half of the mech hanging off due to LRM spam. A fresh Atlas is scary. As it should be.

I've been piloting Atlases almost exclusively since the beginning, working on my patience and my piloting skills, waiting for the day when something like ECM -- and the eventual netcode fixes, and knockdowns, and collision damage -- make the Atlas once again, rightfully, the scariest thing on the field. There is no reason -- NONE -- that a Jenner or Commando should stay in the vicinity of an Atlas, nor should any but the craziest and most competent pilots be able to. An alpha strike from an Atlas at point blank range should blow a Commando off its feet and send it skidding away. A Jenner tangling with an Atlas should resemble a Pug fighting a Bullmastiff, and should last about as long. Your best bet against the Atlas, as a scout, should be to run like a rabbit and come back with friends and fire support. That day is coming. The days of "Forward-Back-Forward-Back-Really-Fast-So-He-Can't-Hit-Me-Even-Point-Blank" are ending. I'm grinding my teeth in anticipation. I will grin and smite you like the fist of an angry god.

Back to ECM.

The main reason ECM works so well is that teams with ECM tend to stay in a tight formation. A team of mechs is really hard to counter. That's the whole point of the game.

And on LRM's, I want to point out that ECM doesn't negate LRMs. I run a pair of 20's on my Founder's Atlas sometimes, and coordinate with a Light pilot to TAG or disrupt ECM mechs, at which point I hammer them with their own weight in warheads from several hundred yards before engaging. Which is how big mechs are supposed to work.

So I'm sorry that your cheats don't work anymore. ECM is fine. It makes the game hard. Cope.


You know, I totally agree with your sentiments in regards to an Atlas and its place on the battlefield. An Atlas, an assault mech, should be feared and light mechs have no place playing hookey with it in close proximity. I feel you frustration when it comes to squirrels running rampant taking advantage of bag netcode and zero collisions to leverage more than their fair share of utility out their tiny little mech chassis.

And, ECM has a place in the game. It is a part of Battletech after all and so should be. Anything that promotes greater usage of teamwork and tactics is a welcome addition.

Now put yourself in my shoes.

I live in Australia, and suffer a 250-300 ping. Light mechs are never where they appear to be. I prefer direct fire lasers for their ability to concentrate fire on a specific location, but a lockable weapon at least gives me some threat potential versus the lagshield. I also have a young family and sporadic free time, not condusive to joining a clan or commiting to 2 hours on teamspeak. So I pug games and for the most part enjoy having an impact on my makeshift sides performance.

You play an Atlas exclusive, I play a Founders Catapult. I want speed and manoeuvrability with decent armour with a fairly threatening damage potential.

In Closed Beta, I played all the chassis, many variations of weaponry to find the loudout that suited my playstyle and gave me most fun. Eventually I settled on a 4xMed Pulse Laser, 2x SSRM2 fastcat with jumpjets, BAP, full armour and 21 double heatsinks. Went for the sensor modules to have fast targeting and max sensor range for tactical awareness.

I could rush into the fray from an exposed front, grab a large amount of attention away from multiple enemies, take a beating but normally escape back into friendlies all the while dragging my pursuers into killzones driving them crazy wanting to get that elusive killshot on me. It's high risk, high reward stuff that could on occasion single handedly turn the tide of a match.

Introduce ECM.

Lights are now invulnerable against me, limiting viable targets to about half the normal drop, since there are now so many Ravens and Commandos. With the other heavies, I no longer get target data so and have to rely on the poor visual feedback for where and what sections of a mech might be damaged. With the current state of the netcode, even if I appear to be striking a mech I no longer can assess if there was in fact any damage dealt or where.

The game in its current state is pretty much defunct. Dropping now in my Founders Catapult is tantamount to simply 'making up the numbers'. It encourages players to join the cookie cutter brigade of ECM (which in my case means COM-2D with 3xSSRM2 + TAG to have a chance of hitting the multitudinous light brigade) or not giving a damn and grinding c-bills mindlessly with a cheap low repair cost loss.

However you look at it, from my perspective the game quality suffers. At the moment it isn't worth the time and if it isn't fixed soon there is no point in playing. There are three other avid Battletech fan friends of mine who have been following my experience and impressions of the game to decide if they should play.

Suffice it to say, things are not looking good.

#114 Kaziganthi

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:11 PM

View PostDeadoon, on 15 December 2012 - 03:58 PM, said:

Yes, lrm have severe downsides, but they don't need to have buffs to nearly 3 times tt values while everything elses gets a mere 50% bonus. Also did you ever stop and thing, hmm maybe lrm boats are a specialist position and lrms are meant for a support job not an all annihilating weapon system that has nearly the highest damage in the game universe and has the second highest damage per ton, only behind another missile system?
Srm in TT have semi homing capabilities, similar to that of lrm. Streaks are a upgrade for ammo efficiency, they have a 100% hit rate for comparison, but take longer to lock on and do not fire without a solid lock. That is the reasont the artemis system affects them. The autocannons in this game are close to correct but not quite there.

Lrm have been buffed so much that they needed something to counteract their effectiveness. Why is a support weapon doing more damage than all but the most powerful ballistics? The only ballistics for mech use that do more damage are the hag-40, which is effectively a lbx-40 and the UAC/20 which is really short range. The only missile system that compares to the current lrm is a lrm 20 with freaking dead-fire missiles, which have no homing capacity and are innacurate, or mrm 40 which weigh more.

Lrm do 1.8 damage and give you 50% more ammo than canon. This equates to a insane 2.7X damage potential of normal, they went from a soften them up a bit weapon to a battlefield dominator.


Buffed so much...you gotta be kidding me...They have only received 2 buffs that I know of excluding Artemeis, but i'll include that for sake of coverage

Increased damage from 1pt to 2pts., and an increased ammo load of 20% which all missile and ballistic weapons have gotten if I'm not mistaken, due to the doubling of armour. Artemis.

In return they have :
1 been nerfed down to 1.8
2 had a warning system implemented which indicates missiles incoming
3 missile speed reduced
4 180m damage range (whereas PPC, AC2, AC5 have minimums also yet not implements)
5 ECM reduces lock time
6 ECM makes it unable to lock ANY mech with LRMs when your in the bubble
7 NARC no longer effective for LRMs due to the fact it does not send a homing beacon (as it should) and can be blocked by ECM
8 TAG range is 300m..(reportably going to be increased to 700m big whoop with all the above stacked on top)
9 Artmeis exquipped LRM had reload costs doubled


Now for what seems glaringly obvious..LRMS are not a support weapon. Just because the mechs carrying them in Canon are classed as support mechs doesnt mean the weapon itself is a support weapon. Show me anywhere that it states LRMs are SUPPORT weapons. A Longtom is a support weapon, Arrov IV is a support weapon. LRMS are not.

The reason why your other weapons are not doing as much is due to the fact they need the tweeks.

If people are not smart enough to use cover and kill spotters that are helping LRMs hit, why do you need a piece of tech to do that for you?

I

Edited by Kaziganthi, 15 December 2012 - 06:11 PM.


#115 MasterGoa

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:22 PM

View PostElkarlo, on 15 December 2012 - 10:20 AM, said:

I want the ECM stay as it is.

I just bought a Com-2D equipt it with Endosteel, putt 3x SSRM2 inside it, a ECM... alltogether 2,5M easy to reach.

Repaircosts are 17k Max, i am winning a Lot.. i got Prem running so i made today in 4-5 Hours 6 Million C-bills.

Money Cow on the Run ECM equipt Light. No repair costs plenty of shooting and spotting lot of C-bills.
Nobody now needs Premium. Because you can Money Farm very easy thanks to Com-2D ECM.


Edit.:
Everbody who dislikes ECM should go out with this Setup and earn Money this weekend that we have as much ECM mechs out there as possible,

You got your C-Bills and PGI will learn a lesson how they made Premium and paying for MC totally Useless... as everybody W/O Premium can afford the biggest Mech in just 6 Hours playing by using the Cheap to get and repair Commando-2D this think is a ridicullus Money cow. You can hit every Mech, so you get Kill assist Money, you spot a lot of Mechs, so you get this Money Bonus, you do lot of Damage, so you get lot of C-bill bonus there, and the more ECM the team got the more likely it wins. -> Best Money Cow for 2,5M in MWO, thanks to ECM.
And it is ridicullus Cheap to repair.
Normaly around 12k 2 Tons SSRM Ammo are enough at 75% Welfare Ammo.

So i want that ECM stays because then i will never be in the need to pay anything for MWO.



Thank you so much for this advice.

This is actually what I did with great success.

Now I can get all the other mechs that I want for free.

Thank you again...

#116 Deadoon

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:31 PM

View PostKaziganthi, on 15 December 2012 - 06:11 PM, said:


Buffed so much...you gotta be kidding me...They have only received 2 buffs that I know of excluding Artemeis, but i'll include that for sake of coverage

Increased damage from 1pt to 2pts., and an increased ammo load of 20% which all missile and ballistic weapons have gotten if I'm not mistaken, due to the doubling of armour. Artemis.

In return they have :
1 been nerfed down to 1.8
Yep, nerfed to 1.8, from 1. wait it went up 80%,. that's a buff
2 had a warning system implemented which indicates missiles incoming
Because your secondary sensors can't tell a missile is imbound?
3 missile speed reduced
No arguing there, thats a minor nerf though in the long run.
4 180m damage range (whereas PPC, AC2, AC5 have minimums also yet not implements)
ppc do have a minimum range, which decreases damage before 90 meters, ac-2/5's min range is nonsensical as it is a mere autocannon firing impact exploding ap rounds.
5 ECM reduces lock time
Increases, understandable, considering your sensors can't ID the target properly.
6 ECM makes it unable to lock ANY mech with LRMs when your in the bubble
Sensory overload, look it up.
7 NARC no longer effective for LRMs due to the fact it does not send a homing beacon (as it should) and can be blocked by ECM
Yeah, that does make sense, but it also makes perfect sense that the narc beacon is actually doing more than it should be as we aren't even using narc equiped missiles, those cost double. Also Narc beacons are jammed by guardian ecm, sorry to burst your bubble, heh.
8 TAG range is 300m..(reportably going to be increased to 700m big whoop with all the above stacked on top)
450m, it is just a high powered ir laser.
9 Artmeis exquipped LRM had reload costs doubled
Yep, that is correct, canon and logically, your point?

Now for what seems glaringly obvious..LRMS are not a support weapon. Just because the mechs carrying them in Canon are classed as support mechs doesnt mean the weapon itself is a support weapon. Show me anywhere that it states LRMs are SUPPORT weapons. A Longtom is a support weapon, Arrov IV is a support weapon. LRMS are not.

The reason why your other weapons are not doing as much is due to the fact they need the tweeks.

If people are not smart enough to use cover and kill spotters that are helping LRMs hit, why do you need a piece of tech to do that for you?

I

Actually speaking, since we are using narc capable missiles, we should be paying that 60k per ton of ammo for regular lrm, now that I think about it.

Wee.

Also they get 50% more ammo, same as other weapons, Thing is no other weapon got a damage increase and an ammo increase. Srm and streak got damage, ballistics got ammo, lrm got both.

Edited by Deadoon, 15 December 2012 - 06:32 PM.


#117 Corvus Antaka

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:45 PM

View Postbyteu2, on 15 December 2012 - 10:28 AM, said:


Are they racking up the money? I'm sure they'll never give us access to the financial numbers. Hell, they won't even give us the current player count, like they used to.


They must be. I mean, lets face it, brilliant decisions like a non-TT ECM that completely strays from TT by making mechs invisible outaside the 180m bubble on radar...even though ECM raises signal strength..thats logical right? so forget TT. ECM is WAI afterall, and most surely due to the brilliance of PGI as a developer since they toss TT whenever needed to bring in morre stuff we need for better gameplay...like guys rushing headlong across fields with ECM don't need to find cover form LRMS anymore, because using cover is just so last years tactics.

No, I'm quite sure PGI is making tons of money, because in no other way can I explain these decisions, nor the unbelievable prices they charge fro xmas lights and snowmen that cost less in the realworld - I mean if they aren't making money and sucking in new players daily for big bucks then why would they keep doing what they are doing?

#118 Cannibal713

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:47 PM

The game isnt finished. Game elements are being introduced and beta testers (us) are seeing how they effect the game. The devs will add things to counter some of the effects of ECM. Chill out dude. I for one dont mind the addition of ECM. I was getting kinda of tired of all the streak boating, and it sure did a number on them. It is accually making people use direct fire weapons & SKILL. It only takes one ECM mech to counter the enimie's. Instead of crying in the forum, perhaps you should practice and get better at the game.

#119 Sparkymarkyp

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:57 PM

View PostMasterGoa, on 15 December 2012 - 09:08 AM, said:

I have been a fan of Mech Warriro games since virtual world in Montreal
back in 1996. We played MWO in life size pods and it was awesome.

The people there LISTENED to what the players were saying and we
could hone our skill sets. The game was well balanced and fun for all.

Now, I have two mechs, two MadCats, one
long range and one short range.

Before we go into locking missiles, think of lag.
There is a lot of lag everywhere, and there is a KNOWN lag
bug when you turn. The only way to counter this is locking missiles.
At least, with a 140KPH mech.

However, locking does NOT work unless you or your teammates
use RADAR. So, if ECM wants to prevent radar to work, I am totally fine with this.

However, missiles lock using heat. This is true in todays military
and has been true since 1952. Why would a future technology be totally castrated
and rendered useless by a radar jammer?

It makes no sense at all that LOS locks are impossible because of a radar
jammer AND identifying your team mates...

Here is one of many results from an opposing team with two ECM:
Posted Image

Note damage inflicted...

So I will vote with my wallet. I will stop playing MWO because I should not be forced to bring a knife to a gun fight...

Also, the dev number ONE PRIORITY is to correct leg turning lag.
Going from 55FPS to 6 because I turn is not acceptable, and everyone
I know has the same issue with your game.

Good luck and godspeed, as i have been enjoying this game
for over 15 years...


this game is in beta you knob jockey

the entire thing is in test phase - dont expect it to be perfect.

People like you **** me off - you are TESTING an UNFINISHED game and you are kicking off because of an unbalanced (or what you perceive to be) an unbalaced issue

in this case, put it on the suggestion forum or email the devs - dont publically winge like a little girl

THIS IS NOT THE FINAL GAME - have the intelligence to figure this out before you criticise someone elses hard work, you armchair general.

pathetic

#120 Teralitha

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 07:17 PM

I thought ECM was only going to make it easier for scouting, and only affect the mechs carrying it... Allowing scouts stay hidden unless spotted visibly while attempting to TAG or Narc enemies. Not to destroy the functionality of missles altogether with AOE and cover everything around them in an ECM blanket...





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