88 replies to this topic

[Naeron66]

The arrogance in the statement is very telling.

Countering ECM (other then dropping in a mech with ECM) does not require people to play smarter, it requires them to have greater levels of skill. The playerbase that PGI needs to keep MWO profitable has a huge percentage of people who don't have that level of skill.

Using TAG does not require you to play smarter it requires you to have the skill to use TAG to get it on a mech and keep it there. I am not good at twitch FPS shooters, which is why I don't play them, and I can't use TAG well enough to make it worth carrying LRMs or Streaks, I am smart enough to know TAG is a workable counter but I am also smart enough to know that relying on solo puggers to tag targets is pointless and using TAG myself is not productive. So I won't run missiles that need a lock in pugs.

[SpiralRazor]

hammerreborn, on 15 December 2012 - 01:16 PM, said:

Cause the multiple posts stating TAG is the hard counter to ECM and then going on about buffing it to be a better counter = no statements by devs regarding ECM. Once again people complaining to complain. Next we'll cry that Paul said somewhere that he wants to nerf streaks to IGN or something and they're be a huge outrage even though those weapon details have been posted for weeks.

Uh..no...there wouldnt be a huge rage because streaks were already scheduled to be reworked...and that rework would have made them A- Completely fine and B- working more like they should in canon, IE not all hitting the CT.


To say nah...were not going to listen to the majority of the player base(paraphrased) and that ECM somehow...SOMEHOW...encourages smarter play is beyond stupid for anyone that breathes.

Thats a HUGE image fail, im frankly surprised his handlers would let him say something like that.

[CaptOven]

I rarely post on these forums as I normally feel the subject or the OP poster is insane. And so far I've towed the PGI line and have posted several posts defending them. Even on 3rd person view threads.

But ECM is too far.

If PGI are going to have greater amount of ECM counter measures then telling us about it would be required as at the moment ECM is too good. My poor Cat with 2 LRM 15, 2 Streaks and 2 ML seems to do well or badly based on one fact. How many enemy ECM Mechs there are. And having 1 ECM Atlas appear at the base and me not able to LRM or Streak them off isn't a fair game. Same with my CN9-D do I wander forward with the ECM Mech and hope the enemy Mech don't have ECM or move away from it from it's cover in the vain chance of a few hits with its LRM? Essentially the success of my PUG games come down to chance FAR more often than they used to.

Some information saying that there will be counters might make me more inclined to keep playing. And don't get me wrong out of 7 Mechs I regularly play only 3 have lock on missiles and I actually find LRM boring drop after drop, But with variety being the spice of life I like to have all experiences. So until these "mythical" ECM counters appear the value of the decision to take any LRM's or Streaks will be down to what the opposing drop consist of...

Edited for bad spelling

Edited by CaptOven, 15 December 2012 - 03:44 PM.

[Lupus Aurelius]

You guys are missing the point...

THIS IS NOT AN ECM DEBATE THREAD/POLL!

The discussion is about how PGI interacts with community input on new features and content, what is and is not professional as far as responding to significant debates concerning that content, and how our contribution to the development, as far as input / data / POVs on those issues are handled.

To use another example other than ECM, there has been significant input concerning Trial Mechs. The only clear response by PGI concerning that input was an interview with The Mitanni, where they stated that they are fine and people just don't understand. Was that the proper way to communicate that to the community? Did it take into account all the input contrary to that statement? And if they did have a legitimate argument, was that communicated to us in any significant way, via the game forums?

Edited by Lupus Aurelius, 15 December 2012 - 04:21 PM.

[Greyfyl]

I think Paul comes across as an arrogant ***** to be honest.

No offense Paul I'm sure you are a great guy.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Lefty Lucy, on 15 December 2012 - 11:40 AM, said:

Also: why should they come on the forums to explain their stance to a bunch of blow-hards who think their individual experiences are more valid data than actual numbers pulled from the servers?

Lefty Lucy, on 15 December 2012 - 11:39 AM, said:

If they fix net code, there will be zero problems with ECM, because you'll actually be able to hit lights without lock-on weapons.

what a sharp eye you have son... enjoy your goldfish!

[Felicitatem Parco]

Vernius Ix, on 15 December 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

PP you should not be posting anything in these forums. Your a MOD, your opinions should be kept to yourself. Even if we could take anything you said as your actual opinion and not just IGP/PGI boot licking, you should still remain above the fray.


Yeah...

Hey, I'm still a customer for this service. Paying or not, since this is a Free-to-Play game, anyone who uses these forums is a Customer of IGP/PGI unless they're a Staff member. Signing up for an account makes one a Customer, and using the forums is a service provided to customers. Yes, I am a volunteer Community Moderator, but that just means I'm being held more strongly to the Code of Conduct and Terms of Use for this product environment, and I can't use any Moderation tools/capacity for subjects that involve me. For instance(s), I can't edit someone's post if they say "Prosperity Park is a _____" and I can't moderate a post that's part of a discussion I'm personally involved in. However, I'm still allowed to chime in and participate in conversations; I still have the same rights as others to post my opinions on the forums.

I nthis particular instance, regarding my prior post, I've been accused of "White Knighting" just because I read Dev Blog 2 many months ago and prepared myself for this kind of eventuality. And it's so early in the game (literally and figuratively) that now's not the right time to be drawing concrete conclusions about how ECM will be affecting the game since we're still missing a bunch of features. Based on the amount of time that's lapsed since inception, the expected frequency of game alterations, the current observed rates of info updates, and the information already presented... I don't think Paul is obliged to come and make a sudden posting that's not already planned for release. I feel that, in all likelyhood, PGI will be presenting more information about the various aspects of Informaion Warfare as they are ready to be presented, and it's coming along at a fine-enough rate for a game that being developed.

You might have noticed that the Command Chair has a section called Known Issues where the programmers dump bug fix info. It's always being incorporated intoa patch that won't come for weeks from now. That's because what they have in their HQ is several patches ahead of what we have. There's a good chance that features have already made it into those patches and haven't been announced yet. We can't demand for them to release all of their plans in advance. That's not really how the industry works; they are allowed to keep information to themselves for later dissimination if they want to. I think what we have is good for now, and I will just wait for more instead of demanding it from them.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 15 December 2012 - 04:48 PM.

[GalaxyBluestar]

Prosperity Park, on 15 December 2012 - 04:47 PM, said:

Hey, I'm still a customer for this service. Paying or not, since this is a Free-to-Play game, anyone who uses these forums is a Customer of IGP/PGI unless they're a Staff member. Signing up for an account makes one a Customer, and using the forums is a service provided to customers. Yes, I am a volunteer Community Moderator, but that just means I'm being held more strongly to the Code of Conduct and Terms of Use for this product environment, and I can't use any Moderation tools/capacity for subjects that involve me. For instance(s), I can't edit someone's post if they say "Prosperity Park is a _____" and I can't moderate a post that's part of a discussion I'm personally involved in. However, I'm still allowed to chime in and participate in conversations; I still have the same rights as others to post my opinions on the forums.

I nthis particular instance, regarding my prior post, I've been accused of "White Knighting" just because I read Dev Blog 2 many months ago and prepared myself for this kind of eventuality. And it's so early in the game (literally and figuratively) that now's not the right time to be drawing concrete conclusions about how ECM will be affecting the game since we're still missing a bunch of features. Based on the amount of time that's lapsed since inception, the expected frequency of game alterations, the current observed rates of info updates, and the information already presented... I don't think Paul is obliged to come and make a sudden posting that's not already planned for release. I feel that, in all likelyhood, PGI will be presenting more information about the various aspects of Informaion Warfare as they are ready to be presented, and it's coming along at a fine-enough rate for a game that being developed.

You might have noticed that the Command Chair has a section called Known Issues where the programmers dump bug fix info. It's always being incorporated intoa patch that won't come for weeks from now. That's because what they have in their HQ is several patches ahead of what we have. There's a good chance that features have already made it into those patches and haven't been announced yet. We can't demand for them to release all of their plans in advance. That's not really how the industry works; they are allowed to keep information to themselves for later dissimination if they want to. I think what we have is good for now, and I will just wait for more instead of demanding it from them.

well said.

[SaberCut Moffat]

Lefty Lucy, on 15 December 2012 - 11:40 AM, said:

Also: why should they come on the forums to explain their stance to a bunch of blow-hards who think their individual experiences are more valid data than actual numbers pulled from the servers?

Is that lucy calling someone else a blowhard? Oh, the irony is irresistible!

[Lefty Lucy]

SaberCut Moffat, on 15 December 2012 - 04:55 PM, said:

Is that lucy calling someone else a blowhard? Oh, the irony is irresistible!

I'm fully aware that I'm one of the blow-hards.

[Bagheera]

Lefty Lucy, on 15 December 2012 - 11:39 AM, said:

If they fix net code, there will be zero problems with ECM, because you'll actually be able to hit lights without lock-on weapons.

This should be quoted such that it re-appears on every page of this thread.

[NocturnalBeast]

ECM is fine the way it is. If anything, the devs should be focused on fixing the netcode and bugs, then adding more and bigger maps + new gameplay modes to keep the game from stagnating.

[DrBunji]

Lupus Aurelius, on 15 December 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

This is not a pro ECM / con ECM discussion.

This is not a pro ECM / con ECM discussion.

P.S. - This is not a pro ECM / con ECM discussion.

I DUNNO THIS SOUNDS ALOT LIKE A NERF ECM THREAD

joking aside, yeah I think the devs could do a better job communicating to us here in the forums.

But;
I completely understand why they dont, i mean, have you read the forums? there is not a trace of rationality or a shred of reasonable debate. It is all "I WANT A REFOUND CAUSE THEY DONT DO EXACTLY LIKE I SAY" or hyperbolic BS about item d'jour.

[LaserAngel]

After the setup for Open Beta, the Command Chair is the place for forum goers. I drop in 8-mans and in 4-mans. I'm seeing an increase in matches that we're unable to find in both. PC Gamer does add a bit of promotion/marketing for this game. I think it needs a little but the core game still needs a lot more love before spending time on the PR trail. People are waiting for the AWESOME December 18th patch to drop or maybe for January.

I've seen an uptick in the developers posting and new staff members chiming in on the forums. I don't expect them to spend any significant amount of time here. I want them to spend that time working on the game. I do appreciate that but on the other hand I feel a little betrayed when the developer speaks over at another site, podcast, video stream, etc.

I'd rather come here rather than go to some other place which would have been the only way to learn anything new. I thank whoever found these comments and article over on PC Gamer. I shouldn't have to hunt down the secret club where the developer is talking about this game.

Edited by LaserAngel, 15 December 2012 - 05:57 PM.

[Shard Phoenix]

This may have already been said, somewhere, but it's worth repeating...

Even if the devs were giving full disclosure RIGHT NOW to everything they have planned, or already done (but not implemeted as Prosperity Park mentioned), these forums would still be full of a bunch of blow-hards professing their opinions on how the game needs to progress, according to them. We'd have people nitpicking the hell out of every single decision the development team was making and be ankle-deep in all kinds of speculation regarding how "XXXXX Mechanic is going to RUIN the game".

Most of the gripes I have about the game already have explanations and "we're working on it" responses by PGI. Only thing I can do is sit back and see how things pan out. I play when I feel like it and don't put so much emotional stock into the state of the game that my few complaints remove the fun for me when I do play.

To close,

*insert a bunch of completely pointless internet and gaming "credentials" in attempt to give zero validation to my own personal opinion*

Edited by Shard Phoenix, 15 December 2012 - 05:57 PM.

[SpiralRazor]

Shard Phoenix, on 15 December 2012 - 05:55 PM, said:

This may have already been said, somewhere, but it's worth repeating...

Even if the devs were giving full disclosure RIGHT NOW to everything they have planned, or already done (but not implemeted as Prosperity Park mentioned), these forums would still be full of a bunch of blow-hards professing their opinions on how the game needs to progress, according to them. We'd have people nitpicking the hell out of every single decision the development team was making and be ankle-deep in all kinds of speculation regarding how "XXXXX Mechanic is going to RUIN the game".

Most of the gripes I have about the game already have explanations and "we're working on it" responses by PGI. Only thing I can do is sit back and see how things pan out. I play when I feel like it and don't put so much emotional stock into the state of the game that my few complaints remove the fun for me when I do play.

To close,

*insert a bunch of completely pointless internet and gaming "credentials" in attempt to give zero validation to my own personal opinion*

No, no you wouldnt. Reasonable things are received reasonably. Thats always been my observation here.

[Felicitatem Parco]

SpiralRazor, on 15 December 2012 - 05:59 PM, said:

Reasonable things are received reasonably. Thats always been my observation here.

Like the upcoming Heavy Energy Weapon buffs and increased projectile velocities! Yay!

However, the Community response to game alterations that are meant to be balanced by yet-unavailable features is sometimes... prickly.

[MrPenguin]

Prosperity Park, on 15 December 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

Like the upcoming Heavy Energy Weapon buffs and increased projectile velocities! Yay!

However, the Community response to game alterations that are meant to be balanced by yet-unavailable features is sometimes... prickly.

This could be said about every game forum I've been too. Seriously, just pick a random one, and it will look somewhat as bad. This one just tends to be worst because of the battletech fandome.

[Kristov Kerensky]

PGI has done a fine job of keeping us informed, better then many other dev teams out there. Often times, the things people are asking to be informed about are things we've already been told about, people just don't bother to read.

And, just for the record, PGI is actually under NO obligation to tell us anything about what they plan on doing and what they are working on at the moment. Nor are they under any obligation to take our input and change the game according to that input.

Fact is, they do communicate with us, and they do use our input to alter game mechanics, despite not having to do those things...

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Naeron66, on 15 December 2012 - 02:44 PM, said:

The arrogance in the statement is very telling.

Countering ECM (other then dropping in a mech with ECM) does not require people to play smarter, it requires them to have greater levels of skill. The playerbase that PGI needs to keep MWO profitable has a huge percentage of people who don't have that level of skill.

then again these are the same devs who think everyone using the same op mechs/equipment makes the game MORE diverse

oh an PP maybe you wanna look here:
http://mwomercs.com/...-increase-ping/

where ppl are actually looking to increase their ping artificially and swapping ideas on how to do it. Thats GOTTA be against the posting rules yes?

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 16 December 2012 - 12:01 AM.