76 replies to this topic

[PANZERBUNNY]

Carnivoris, on 01 January 2013 - 10:01 AM, said:

Or they could just make it work like it's supposed to work. In TT, ECM ONLY counters Artemis, NARC, and C3 communications (not yet implemented). It does NOT prevent lock by SSRMs (or even LRMs from what I understand).

I believe it creates a penalty to hit for LRMs.

[Alan Pheonix]

OMG. I am getting so frustraded with ECM in this game. It all started with what we are calling "The muder of crows". I'm sure you have all seen that annoying group of 4 ECM streak ravens that runs around and kills everything every time. After I am a smoldering pile I think to myself, "how can they still be having fun doing this? Don't they get bored after a while?"

ECM is a great idea, and I liked it in the other MW games, to include hero clix and table top versions. But it is WAY TOO OVERPOWERED in this game. THere are just too many facets of the system that, combined, make it almost unstoppable. It also pretty much renders missles almost completly useless in the game now. I can understand cloaking your mech.... but it also cloaks all your teamates in a 180m radius which is huge! And it cloaks allies that are near the ECM'ers, making it harder to react to a teamate getting destroyed... we only have a 20m window which is almost impossible to keep long enough to achieve a lock. You cant target the units so you dont know what you are going against mech wise or weapon wise... Oh, and if they stand near you and you are any sort of missle boat, you are now rendered completly useless. You cant even shoot your damn weapons if your a streaker and you cant get a lock on anyone if your are a LRM guy. I just find it rediculous that it rendered 2 weapons systems completly useless since you will hardley ever get in a match without atleast 1 ECM'er. They just need to change 1 or 2 parts of the system to fix the issue and it would be fine. Make it so they can only cloak themselves.. or they can cloak their team from radar, but if you have line of sight YOU can hit the mechs it was cloaking (but not the ECM'er). Or, allow us to shoot from within thier cloak field so atleast we can lob missles at people outside the 180 range. or allow streaks to fire without a lock like any other weapon system in the game (to include reg SRM's and LRM's) so atleast we can take pot shots and try and scare em off.. A little light raven or commando is already hard enough to hit, im sure letting us shoot a streak without a lock wont be too horrible... and much better then having them sitting behind us and now we cant do anything at all. Again, ECM is a good idea, But right now it offers WAY too many benifits to be fair. And way too many reasons to not play a lot of good mechs reliant on certain weapon systems to work.

[DocBach]

PANZERBUNNY, on 26 January 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

I believe it creates a penalty to hit for LRMs.

Nope. Even with expanded rules, if you aren't in the actual six hex radius the most ECM does to your sensors is block sensor scanning, ie the ability to ask your opponent a question about the 'Mech's record sheet like "how much structure do you have left in your right arm?"

[Yakumo]

I agree ECM is still over powered in the game and really needs to be taken out till they balance it properly. The main reason they put ECM in was to counter LRM complaints that should be easy to fix all they need to do is make AMS take out 90%-100% incoming missles which is its primray function. AMS is automatic fire and ammo dependant system so having that high % would be nullified after the ammo runs out.

[Thomas Covenant]

Quote

No ECM bubble.

I would also like the inverse, you shroud other mechs and not your self. Like the arbiter in starcraft. I suppose that wouldn't make sense.

Grrr every counter to ECM right now is either passive, such as a modules, or DIRECT LINE OF SIGHT weapons that arn't affected by it. DIRECT LINE OF SIGHT hitting A LIGHT MECH is a ridiculous expectation and advantage.

ECM says NO to LRMS.
You know what says NO to ECM? Another one.

There is no 'counter' to ECM. Besides itself. In the way ECM is a counter to LRMS.

[Ialti]

Pygar, on 19 December 2012 - 08:19 AM, said:

Here's my proposed change: People shut up about ECM and we all move on with our lives.

You tried, my friend. We will all remember that.

[soarra]

Teralitha, on 19 December 2012 - 08:46 AM, said:

Yea... I like my version better.



I ve already done both. First, I Learned 2Play ECM, then I QQ, and now I suggested a (much)better(best) ECM.

im your opinion,

[Asmudius Heng]

I will say the same thing again i always say.

LRMs need two fire modes - indirect and direct. Indirect being able to hit people in cover but the spread and damage would not be great only a support. Direct would be powerful though as you need to expose yourself to enemy fire.

SSRMs need to be changed as well so that you need to regain lock each time you fire as the big advantage there is the continual fire you plug into the enemy once you hold a lock - more spread damage would also help.

THEN

ECM will cloak friendly mechs and only block the information of the mech itself not the location, and stop TAG, NARC BAP etc as it used to. If that is not enough then it might be able to make lock ons a bit harder, or make the targeting lock on without info come up a little slower - or make the general detection range less.

So detect via sight at 600 meters or 700 with BAP or something similar.

That is a 1.5 ton bit of equipment that is nice but not something you have to have on every mech possible - and if you dont have ECM its not going to kill you.

Fix the root cause, then fix the damned ECM

[Tykelau]

Pygar, on 19 December 2012 - 08:19 AM, said:

Here's my proposed change: People shut up about ECM and we all move on with our lives.

Irony, Pygar, you don't see it? Everyone has their own opinion, not just you.

I haven't played MWO for around a month because I don't like the way the game is headed and ECM is an obvious imbalance. I'll check the patch notes every patch and see if the devs have done any tweaks on the ECM and until they do, I ain't coming back. I loved this game, but the devs have taken a very heavy handed balancing stance and really mess up gameplay sometimes.

If they eventually get it sorted and balanced I will be back, but the fact that they have let PPC's be crap for this long and continue to let ECM's only real counter be another ECM is a real disappointment to me.

[Solis Obscuri]

PANZERBUNNY, on 26 January 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

I believe it creates a penalty to hit for LRMs.

Nope, no penalties to hit for any weapons systems.

[Solis Obscuri]

Yakumo, on 05 February 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

I agree ECM is still over powered in the game and really needs to be taken out till they balance it properly. The main reason they put ECM in was to counter LRM complaints that should be easy to fix all they need to do is make AMS take out 90%-100% incoming missles which is its primray function. AMS is automatic fire and ammo dependant system so having that high % would be nullified after the ammo runs out.

Sure, then give me a 1.5 ton unit that knocks out 95% of all incoming laser fire, a 1.5 ton Blue Shield that kills all PPCs, and a 1.5 ton unit that shoots down all incoming projectile weapons, and we can officially play battlemech bumper cars all the time...

[Codejack]

OK, my position on ECM has evolved:

Now, I think it should be changed so that ECM forces your mech to randomly shut down every 30-45 seconds that it is active.

[Alvor]

To summarize TAG should always work & Streaks/Regular LRMs should always work if using Canon BT/MW.

Number of (regular) missiles hit per salvo in current MWO is OP. On average only about 50%-60% should be hitting i.e. LRM20 average 12 missiles hit per salvo.

All this information was taken from http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Main_Page which is one of the best resources for Battletech information.

http://www.sarna.net...rdian_ECM_Suite

Guardian ECM Suite is typically used to shield allied units from such equipment by emitting a broad-band signal meant to confuse radar, infrared, ultraviolet, magscan and sonar sensors.[2] Affected systems include Artemis IV, C3 and C3i Computer networks, and Narc Missile Beacons. A Guardian can jam a Beagle Active Probe (or its Clan equivalent), but the probe-equipped unit will be aware of the jamming. The greatest drawback to the Guardian is its limited range 180 meters. Sensors can sometimes override this jamming, though by that point the enemy unit is already within visual range and can track the opposition with their own eyes.[2]

http://www.sarna.net...Angel_ECM_Suite

Angel ECM Suite is an experimental version of the Guardian ECM Suite operating on a broader spectrum and greatly advances ECM technology on the battlefield.
Game Rules
The Angel ECM Suite represents a great advance in ECM technology from the standard Guardian model. Angel suite completely blocks the following systems on enemy units: Artemis IV,Artemis V, Beagle Active Probes, Bloodhound Active Probes and their Clan equivalents, C3 Master Computers and C3 Slaves, Streak Missile Launchers and Narc missile beacons. Streak missiles may be fired at units affected by the device, but they function as standard missiles.
When using ECCM rules, the Angel ECM Suite counts as two ECM/ECCM units (depending on how it is set) for the purposes of determining the ratio of ECM to ECCM in a given area.

http://www.sarna.net...cquisition_Gear

Target Acquisition Gear (TAG) is an advanced targeting device for use by artillery spotters. The TAG unit works by firing an infrared laser beam to designate the target and transmits that data via a tight-beam laser communication system to the guidance systems of friendly "smart" bombs and missiles. TAG is compatible with systems such as Arrow IV Homing Missiles or LRM munitions.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Streak_SRM

Streak Missile Launcher Unlike a standard SRM whose shotgun effect may result in some misses and some hits, Streak guidance gives the lighter launchers the effective average firepower of the heavier and more wasteful SRM systems, but with considerably less variation in damage effects. The only disadvantages are that Streak launchers are incompatible with other missile target acquisition technologies such as the Artemis IV FCS and Narc Missile Beacon, their specialized ammunition is much more expensive, and some users are willing to accept partial hits rather than not be able to fire on demand.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/LRM

Long Range Missiles are designed to engage the enemy at great distances at the expense of damage dealt. Adapted towards the profusion of electronic jamming on the battlefield and the effectiveness of current armor designs, these missiles are capable of indirect fire and disperse over a smaller area than Short Range Missiles. Inner Sphere LRM launchers achieve this range by firing at a ballistic launch angle, making them less accurate at close range. Clan LRM launchers do not suffer from this effect, in addition to being smaller and more compact, thanks to their technological advantage. LRMs are highly upgradable, able to fire a variety of warheads and benefit from devices such as Artemis IV FCS.[1]

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/CBT_Tables

Number of Missiles Hit Table
Die Roll (2D6) Number of Missiles Fired
2 3 4 5 6 9 10 12 15 20
2 1 1 1 1 2 3 3 4 5 6
3 1 1 2 2 2 3 3 4 5 6
4 1 1 2 2 3 4 4 5 6 9
5 1 2 2 3 3 5 6 8 9 12
6 1 2 2 3 4 5 6 8 9 12
7 1 2 3 3 4 5 6 8 9 12
8 2 2 3 3 4 5 6 8 9 12
9 2 2 3 4 5 7 8 10 12 16
10 2 3 3 4 5 7 8 10 12 16
[u]11[/u] 2 3 4 5 6 9 10 12 15 20
[u]12[/u] 2 3 4 5 6 9 10 12 15 20

[Teralitha]

Im still waiting for PGI to offically comment on the state of ECM,(command chair) and the overwhelming support for the removal and/or nerfing of ECM by a majority of the community.

[DocBach]

Solis Obscuri, on 06 February 2013 - 01:47 PM, said:

Nope, no penalties to hit for any weapons systems.

Actually, I just found out that revised Tactical Operations rules say that Ghost Target mode gives +1 modifier to attacks;

Perhaps an easy fix to ECM is make Ghost Target mode a separate mode that adds a longer lock time to ECM 'Mechs. Split up ECM's functions so you don't have everything going at the same time and decide if it's better to have a lock on deterrent or a hard block to things like Narc or Artemis.

Edited by DocBach, 04 March 2013 - 07:46 AM.

[Teralitha]

Teralitha, on 02 March 2013 - 11:18 PM, said:

Im still waiting for PGI to offically comment on the state of ECM,(command chair) and the overwhelming support for the removal and/or nerfing of ECM by a majority of the community.

They finally did.... Well... they asked for feedback, anyway.

Edited by Teralitha, 15 March 2013 - 01:28 PM.

[xxx WreckinBallRaj xxx]

They could have just copy/pasted the BAP/ECM from MW4 Mercs and it would have been better than what they did here with them. In fact, probably every MW game ever, TT or VG, did it better than what they decided to do. I hope in its incoming redesign that it and the BAP are balanced vs each other much more properly, rather than the "not at all" we have currently.