81 replies to this topic

[Dead Fury]

No really, I have been against teams that have 3-4 ECM's on their team and still have come out winning just fine with my team of 4 (including me) who do not even use ECM. I myself have never even touched ECM. I dont even have a mech that can equip it.

It has almost 0 effect on me and my teammates. It's called situational awareness, learn to use your eyes and not only rely on a mini-map. If you are in a group communicate. Even if you are in a pug which I do often, its still not that much of a hindrance.

I come from heavy playing of Battlefield 3, CoD, Halo, CSS and so on, all of which you rely heavily on your mini-map. Which is where im guessing most the players who are complaining about it are coming from. These are players who heavily rely on their mini map. Learn to change. Seriously, ECM is not overpowered even if the entire enemy team has it.

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tl;dr

I don't get it, I do a ton of pugging also without groups, still dont have a problem with it. Even if we lose Ill usually end up near the top of the list and our loss is usually from being a PUG and lack of communication, not because the other team had more ECM.

People, ECM is perfectly fine. Does anybody agree with me?

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Communication is why your losing, not ECM. (ECM is just the new excuse)

If you are in a PUG vs PUG it should be as simple as typing. Just a little type work like "Stick together", "Push" or w/e will win a match in a PUG vs PUG along with some situational awareness.

If you are in a PUG vs Pre-made then your loss is not because of ECM its because they have a better platform to communicate on. However, PUGS look at it as "they had more ECM so they won" not the fact that the soul reason they won was because of better communicational ability.

If you are in a Pre-made vs Pre-made then it just comes down to communication + skill. How well can your team communicate and work together compared to the other team. You also should have a little situational awareness.

Edited by Unstruck Fury, 16 December 2012 - 10:09 AM.

[MrPenguin]

Most players don't actually. They're called the vocal minority for a reason

[Sevaradan]

Yep ecm is fine, its a cool toy but does not win matches on its own.

[Mavairo]

I have issues with it from the stand point that there is no working effective in game counter for it. So it renders artillery bombardment by and large useless.

I also don't like it because it makes an already incredibly worthless weapon system (Narc) even more so.

I also don't think that it should work on a 1 for 1 basis. This would prevent it from being spammed (or at least greatly reduce it's spam use). 1 ECM in counter mode should negate it for the entire field.

That or TAG needs to negate it, even inside the bubble, especially as the whole system is laser based, from communication feed, to targeting info. It's all handled via lasers.

NARC certainly needs to work against it if nothing else. No one in their right mind used NARC pre ECM anyway. Now there is like quadruple incentive to not use it. It's heavy, has very little ammo, still has a limited duration, is incredibly hard to aim as it's just a tiny black dart firing out on your screen with no fire out the back. And now thanks to ECM, the ''advantage'' gained by it is completely ruined.

Information warfare, is about intelligence suppression and counters. All we have right now is intelligence suppression with no counters.

And for the record before the gold defense force comes over and says "lololol lrm noob lrn2aim and fight!" I'm a Dragon Pilot. Everything I use is Direct Fire. ECM still screws with the game no matter how you look at it, or how you defend it. Infact you could argue I benefit some of the most out of anyone with ECM on the field. I don't have to worry about Streaks or LRMs AT ALL stopping my calvary raids, or hitting me after I've exited the furballs. People can't unless I'm smoking gauge my health. And I -still- think this way.

Narc needs a use. Tag needs to be more useful than it is right now, (seriously try using TAG sometime, WITHOUT ECM on the field. See how ''easy '' it is to use in ''optimal'' conditions I dare you). And it screws over the LRM guys too harshly (like it was difficult to ruin an LRM bombardments game plan anyway)

Edited by Mavairo, 16 December 2012 - 09:50 AM.

[Sevaradan]

easiest counter is to put BIG holes in the mechs carrying ecm

[Dead Fury]

MrPenguin, on 16 December 2012 - 09:38 AM, said:

Most players don't actually. They're called the vocal minority for a reason

Most player don't what? Communicate? If you are in a PUG vs PUG it should be as simple as typing. Just a little type work like "Stick together", "Push" or w/e will win a match in a PUG vs PUG along with some situational awareness.

If you are in a PUG vs Pre-made then your loss is not because of ECM its because they have a better platform to communicate on. However, PUGS look at it as "they had more ECM so they won" not the fact that the soul reason they won was because of better communicational ability.

If you are in a Pre-made vs Pre-made then it just comes down to communication + skill. How well can your team communicate and work together compared to the other team. You also should have a little situational awareness.
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ECM is just a slight added bonus, it is not at all game breaking no matter how many the other team has. At least, from my ventures.

[mike29tw]

I mostly use direct fire weapon, so ECM doesn't really hinder my performance.

Still, the current implementation of ECM is an awfully bad game design and should be changed.

[Nonsense]

mike29tw, on 16 December 2012 - 09:51 AM, said:

Still, the current implementation of ECM is an awfully bad game design and should be changed.

You're going to want to elaborate on that.

[Belorion]

ECM makes the game more fun. Some just miss the slightly more 1 dimensional game they had before. Some people want all LRMs. Some want all Brawling, some want all whatever it is they want.

I want a highly dynamic game with multiple tactics, things to contend with and multiple objectives.

Edited by Belorion, 16 December 2012 - 09:53 AM.

[zverofaust]

Belorion, on 16 December 2012 - 09:52 AM, said:

I want a highly dynamic game with multiple tactics, things to contend with and multiple objectives.

And yet you're perfectly fine with a piece of equipment that is by and large now mandatory for everyone to have or they get their face rocked by Ravens every game.

Makes perfect sense.

[Wraith05]

I've been playing a LRM boat for the last hour. So far i've scored at least 400 damage in all matches (last one was 724), got at least 1 kill and at least 3-4 component destructions and won 50/50 so far.

LRMs aren't dead, people just think they are so they don't use them.

[Sevaradan]

zverofaust, on 16 December 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:

And yet you're perfectly fine with a piece of equipment that is by and large now mandatory for everyone to have or they get their face rocked by Ravens every game.

Makes perfect sense.

I'm doing just fine in a catapult w/o ECM and most of the time in 4vpug drops we don't even bother dropping any ECM.

[Gaeb]

Sevaradan, on 16 December 2012 - 09:40 AM, said:

Yep ecm is fine, its a cool toy but does not win matches on its own.

Yep. I'm expecting tweaks and counters to be added (cuz they said there would be) and it feels too strong in its present state, but its not unplayable - I do fine in my non-ECM mechs and never feel like I *have* to carry it.

[Mavairo]

Sevaradan, on 16 December 2012 - 09:44 AM, said:

easiest counter is to put BIG holes in the mechs carrying ecm

You try putting big holes into lagshielded ravens, or massed DDCs moving in a proper phalanx. Also chances are if you built your mech to kill one it's going to come up woefully short for the other. We've had enough seat time now to work out the ''soft counters' for ECM. And frankly they fall short, for anyone carrying guided missiles. Sure, for me it's not an issue. But, I'm not everyone. My Mech isn't every mech. And not everyone can brawl. Some people just are not wired for it. Most people certainly aren't wired to be mobile calvary either which is one of the most effective ways to deal with ECM mechs.

TL DR my first post. Information war is about, intelligence and counter intelligence gathering. Right now we have Counter Intelligence being far above Intelligence Gathering

ECM being where it is, overall has hurt the strategic depth of the game, by gimping team composition hard.

They have 2 potential Good Real Counters for ECM that they decided ECM should just faceroll over anyway. TAG, and NARC. (especially the latter) Beagle I'm not particularly fond of since ALOT of mechs can effectively mount a Beagle probe. But TAG? That system is incredibly difficult to utilize properly WITHOUT ECM on the Field, and Narc? Narc is pretty much impossible without it anyway and is a crap system in the first place.

Edited by Mavairo, 16 December 2012 - 09:59 AM.

[Cerebelli]

Sorry, I had to.

[Dead Fury]

zverofaust, on 16 December 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:

And yet you're perfectly fine with a piece of equipment that is by and large now mandatory for everyone to have or they get their face rocked by Ravens every game.

Makes perfect sense.

I have never had a problem with Ravens or Jenners. Sure they are fast and the lagshield makes them a little bit of a ***** but ECM added to them does nothing to me. At all. "Oh no I cant see them on the map anymore" well **** its not like I have eyes or a brain to figure they probably are behind me trying to tear at my rear armor.

no, ECM on lights is a very minimal hindrance. Learn to use situational awareness and not rely on a map.

ECM does not make lights overpowered, the bugs with lights do however.

[SpiralRazor]

Sevaradan, on 16 December 2012 - 09:56 AM, said:

I'm doing just fine in a catapult w/o ECM and most of the time in 4vpug drops we don't even bother dropping any ECM.

Try playing competitively sir....and then get back to me. 4 man organized vs PUG drops...you can stop there.

[Sevaradan]

Mavairo, on 16 December 2012 - 09:57 AM, said:

You try putting big holes into lagshielded ravens, or massed DDCs moving in a proper phalanx.

I do it on a regular basis.

[Belorion]

zverofaust, on 16 December 2012 - 09:53 AM, said:

And yet you're perfectly fine with a piece of equipment that is by and large now mandatory for everyone to have or they get their face rocked by Ravens every game.

Makes perfect sense.

If you think its a mandatory piece of equipment then you are limiting yourself. I have been playing mostly Cats, Phracts, and my non-ecm commandos lately, and have been going fine.

[Sevaradan]

SpiralRazor, on 16 December 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

Try playing competitively sir....and then get back to me. 4 man organized vs PUG drops...you can stop there.

I do, and run a mixed lance with only 4 ecm usually and do well.