87 replies to this topic

[sokitumi]

Wizard Steve, on 16 December 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

So crack open your wallets and stop sponging off the rest of us.

I don't think you could fail harder at F2P theory.

[Omni Tek]

Umm the most expensive mech in the game only costs about 20$... or free if you got free time to waste so I fail to see your logic here

Edit: also the trial mechs are not THAT bad, every rotation there's atleast one or 2 good mech sure they run a little hot but if you set your groups up right that's not really a problem.(this rotation I'm liking the hunchback and cataphract)

Edited by Omni Tek, 16 December 2012 - 02:14 PM.

[Wraith05]

PANZERBUNNY, on 16 December 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

There are glaring holes in their business plan without even touching on trial mechs.

All their sources of MC revenue seem to be geared at less people at a higher price, instead of more,w ay more people at a lower price. Moving more profitable units.

Exactly! which is why I think the MC pricetag should be lowered. The CBills stay the same.

Only reason I say give them a starter medium is that I don't feel mediums are represented enough in the game as they should be since they are described as the workhorse or line mechs. Mediums really aren't "win mechs"; especially if you restrict their choices to say 1 or 2 hunchback varients and 1 or 2 centurion varients. And it gives new players something they can tweak to build up while still letting them run the trials to play the bigger mechs/ different roles.

Also lets them experience the metagam to a degree and may make them want to put some actual $ into the game.

[Volez]

Wraith05, on 16 December 2012 - 02:04 PM, said:

The one that can equip the ECM. Or the one with the most missle slots. Not sure if same mech or not.

Also with that play style you'll be switching mechs like mad as nerfs and buffs come. I recommend finding a role you enjoy filing the most and base your mech decisions off that.

Where can i see which one can equip ECM?

[Purlana]

That's only to purchase the stock mech, you still need more C-bills to customize it.

Change the engine.
Change weapons.
Add ECM.
Upgrade to double heat sink / uprade structure.

Find out that you don't like the mech? You just wasted 10M C-bills.

Edited by Purlana, 16 December 2012 - 02:15 PM.

[Wraith05]

Omni Tek, on 16 December 2012 - 02:11 PM, said:

Umm the most expensive mech in the game only costs about 20$... or free if you got free time to waste so I fail to see your logic here

Considering $20 is 1/3 of the price of a full retail game. It just seems too high to me. I think the most expensive should be around $10 or $15 while most run between $5-$10.

Volez, on 16 December 2012 - 02:12 PM, said:

Where can i see which one can equip ECM?

Type ECM mechs into the forum search bar. They had a post someone listing the ECM equipable mechs.

[Omni Tek]

Wraith05, on 16 December 2012 - 02:14 PM, said:

Considering $20 is 1/3 of the price of a full retail game. It just seems too high to me. I think the most expensive should be around $10 or $15 while most run between $5-$10.

I used the most expensive mech as an example atlas DDC 10mil CBills most of the mechs only cost about10 $ and again you don't have to buy anything (except hero mechs and for show items)
My best suggestion to you wouldbe to play a few more rotations find a chassis that you like and maybe (if you want) by one of the variants of it, by then you chould have ammased enough CBills to properly equip the machine to your liking.

[TheAquired]

Volez, on 16 December 2012 - 02:12 PM, said:

Where can i see which one can equip ECM?

Its the Commando 2-D Somewhere on the forums, there is a list of all the mechs that can carry ECM, but I cant find it right now, just search it

[Wraith05]

Omni Tek, on 16 December 2012 - 02:18 PM, said:

I used the most expensive mech as an example atlas DDC 10mil CBills most of the mechs only cost about10 $ and again you don't have to buy anything (except hero mechs and for show items)
My best suggestion to you wouldbe to play a few more rotations find a chassis that you like and maybe (if you want) by one of the variants of it, by then you chould have ammased enough CBills to properly equip the machine to your liking.

This isn't about me on this one. I actually am doing just fine and don't spend any $ on the game. I've ground the 2 most expensive atlases and then some. This is more for the new player/PGIs profits.

A new player isn't going to play for several months just to try find a chassis they like. They likely try it for 1 rotation and get sick of it not caring what the other rotations are. Also with the chassis someone like, do you know many people that like the stock chassis? I don't. Most like a chassis for the hardpoints so they can customize it the way they want it. So a new player will have an even harder time finding the chassis they like since they only run stock mechs till they grind enough $ to get the one they want.

[James Warren]

Volez, on 16 December 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

And then only be abled to use it half of the time because the developers care more about a roleplaying-wise economy than actual gameplay?

Just copy-pasted this from the duplicate thread that was locked (because, 'Hey I have an opinion and I want to share it!')

I wholeheartedly agree with the sentiment behind this statement.
While the current system would make sense for a singleplayer game, I think its a bad idea to balance mech components with c-bill cost. It shouldn't be possible to create mechs that give you a net loss when you play. People should be able to play whatever mech they enjoy. Components need to be balanced based on weight, slots, heat, etc - not cost. Repair costs should be standardised or removed. Rearm costs should be removed.

Honestly if someone says 'medium mechs are the workhorses' one more time...
If PGI wanted for some reason a higher ratio of mediums and lights (and as far as I'm concerned they haven't explicitly said they do), there are way better ways to encourage players to use them than penalising players who prefer the playstyle of heavies and assault mechs. Perhaps have a day of the week where these weight classes get some small c-bill bonus or ensuring that players who take mediums aren't earning less than (similarly skilled) players who run assaults due to their reduced damage output potential.

Yes, it does occur to me that in our fantasy battletech world, a huge mech would be more expensive to maintain than a small mech. No, I do not think that makes for fun gameplay in a competitive online action game. We shouldn't have to farm matches in second-rate mechs just to afford to run our favourites one out of three matches. Ideally, the expensive equipment mentioned in the OP shouldn't make your mech *better* from an objective view point, but rather be something you would like to use as a strategic option - and as such there should not be any penalty for using it since you have earned enough c-bills to equip it.

And on the topic of trial mechs, I agree that it can be difficult to choose a mech to buy when you haven't had a chance to try them out. The current system of rotating trials is good but I think it'd be better if new trials were available every day, or even if each player got a different set to choose from after every match.

I don't mind the time it takes to earn mechs (I haven't activated my premium time yet). Its probably for the best to keep people interested, otherwise there'd need to be a much faster release of new content, which as we have all seen, can cause a lot of balancing qualms (unless its all cosmetic stuff like camo patterns).

Edited by James Warren, 16 December 2012 - 02:27 PM.

[DrBlue62]

Wraith05, on 16 December 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

I'm not meaning this to be mean at all so please don't read it that way.

But how old are you? do you have a job? Do you have bills on top of it? Other interests besides this game?

And in fairness I'll answer my own questions.

I am 25, I have a job in which I make roughly $14/hour. I have student loans and other bills that leaves me roughly 100-200 a month to spend on myself. And I do have other interests that take some $ to partake in.

Now yes I already spent $60 on the game because I know I liked mechwarrior and took a leap of faith. (of which i'm happy with the results).

But a new player coming in playing in trials to see if they actually do like this game or not may be turned away from the game due to a poor experience. Some people will base their decision to put money into this game instead of another hobby based on their first impressions.

So I'm sorry sir but with my budget, if I was new to mechwarrior and played in the trials for roughly 10 games I would not feel it worth putting real money towards continuing my MWO experience.

If I had your (my) budget and was a new comer to MWO I wouldn't spend a dollar after playing ten matches in trial mechs either. They're absolutely terrible! This is why I i feel that players should have the choice of picking any medium mech they want barring XL engines to have in their mech bay so they can also experience the customization side of the game as well as finding their preferred style along the way.

I took a similar leap as you and dropped $120 (or about 1/3 of what I allowed to spend myself on games this year) Hitman:A, BL:2, Arma: II
I'm in school as well, working a less than desired job other than out of necessity. Though I will I admit I also have parental aid for about half my education expenses so I've been lucky to have not need a loan so far.

I'm simply against having people buy a mech because it's "cheap", It takes hours to grind CBills for an atlas in game, if I were to work for cash to buy an Atlas (used here to show how long it takes to earn the most MC/CBill expensive mechs) I'd spend less than half as much time working compared to the amount of time it would take to grind Cbills. (2-3 hours to 5-7). To make the price of all the mechs even lower is just wrong in my opinion.

[Sug]

They need a training ground where you can test out new mechs and variants.

The cost of mechs is fine. Once you buy them they are yours. If an essential part of the game was switching what mech you pilot every other match then yes, they should be cheaper. Since most people are going to find one they like and stick with it they should be expensive.

PGI gots to get paid.

[RacerX]

a Wow! All I can say is Wow! Here we have a new user reaching out to our community to share his expereince and all we can hand him is a "shut up and suck it up" response?

If PGI cannot deliver a positive Wow expereince that keeps a new user coming back for more then they will fail to grow as a business. Do I agree with everything PGI is doing? No. They definitly need to work on this wow factor. However, so don't we as a community. Rationalizing how a new users should feel about MWO or dismissing his musing as childish whining is going to turn a new player off just as quickly. How about everyone save thier "sage" advice for another time or topic. We should welcome new users to the community and re-assure them that PGI is aware of the new user expereince and are working to make it a better one.

[DrBlue62]

Aurien Titus, on 16 December 2012 - 02:05 PM, said:

I think you need to check your math. In 3 hours, or 180 minutes, if you're averaging 10 minute matches you can get in 18 matches. Even if you're earning 250,000 C-Bills per match that's only 4,500,000 C-Bills. That's not including any repair/re-arm costs you've incurred. Plus to make that kind of money consistently you're going to need premium time minimum. I've been saving to buy an Atlas D-DC which costs about 10,400,000 C-Bills. To earn that at minimum wage, ie no premium time and just trial 'mechs. If we assume 100,000 C-Bills earned per match, once again always doing good, using a trial 'mech per mach that would only take 87 matches. With 10 minute game matches that would only take 17½ hours of game play to earn the money to buy one of the most expensive 'mechs.

I have no idea what you're on about so I'll explain what I'm talking about.
When I play with my group I can get about 1.5-2million Cbills an hour. (I'm good and play with good players, or stumble across all of the bad enemy players)
Minimum wage in my state is $7.80

I'll use the Atlas K as it's the most expensive mech.

5480MC = $22 or 3 hours of minimum wage.
13.7 million Cbills = 7-9 hours of Gameplay with premium.

[Sug]

James Warren, on 16 December 2012 - 02:25 PM, said:

People should be able to play whatever mech they enjoy... ... We shouldn't have to farm matches in second-rate mechs just to afford to run our favourites one out of three matches.

http://www.amazon.com/Business-Intelligence-For -Dummies

Edited by Sug, 16 December 2012 - 02:38 PM.

[Omni Tek]

RacerX, on 16 December 2012 - 02:33 PM, said:

a Wow! All I can say is Wow! Here we have a new user reaching out to our community to share his expereince and all we can hand him is a "shut up and suck it up" response?

I take offense at that, I was only (trying to be) helpfull.

[Wraith05]

DrBlue62, on 16 December 2012 - 02:26 PM, said:

If I had your (my) budget and was a new comer to MWO I wouldn't spend a dollar after playing ten matches in trial mechs either. They're absolutely terrible! This is why I i feel that players should have the choice of picking any medium mech they want barring XL engines to have in their mech bay so they can also experience the customization side of the game as well as finding their preferred style along the way.

I took a similar leap as you and dropped $120 (or about 1/3 of what I allowed to spend myself on games this year) Hitman:A, BL:2, Arma: II
I'm in school as well, working a less than desired job other than out of necessity. Though I will I admit I also have parental aid for about half my education expenses so I've been lucky to have not need a loan so far.

I'm simply against having people buy a mech because it's "cheap", It takes hours to grind CBills for an atlas in game, if I were to work for cash to buy an Atlas (used here to show how long it takes to earn the most MC/CBill expensive mechs) I'd spend less than half as much time working compared to the amount of time it would take to grind Cbills. (2-3 hours to 5-7). To make the price of all the mechs even lower is just wrong in my opinion.

Ok, well we can agree on the problem seeming to be a new players experience in the trials leaves them wanting and not getting an accurate experience of MWO. It also makes them not want to put more money, or time into the game.

Would you agree there?

We also agree on the 1 free medium idea.

The pricing of the mechs will be for PGI to determine what will make them the most money. Using bell curves and all that jazz. I just know I myself would have been more likely to use my MC on a mech if the prices were lowered.

Also off topic. Repaying student loans sucks, hope you won't have to get many. I got out with less debt than most and it still drains the monthly budget haha. I do like my job though, so plus on that =).

[Karyudo ds]

Wraith05, on 16 December 2012 - 02:14 PM, said:

Considering $20 is 1/3 of the price of a full retail game. It just seems too high to me. I think the most expensive should be around $10 or $15 while most run between $5-$10.

$20 that will finally let you tinker away... then make next to no CB from a combination of being new and running Ferro. $20 is 1/3 the price of a retail game but oddly enough it doesn't even put you in a better position to work with. Sure it shouldn't be Pay-to-Win, but it does seem odd to me that for $20 you can easily shoot yourself in the foot by buying a mech you may not be good enough to keep working.

At least with Planetside 2/Tribes when you throw down $20 the only way to shoot yourself in the foot by spending money is wasting it all on sniper rifles or something but buying those rifles doesn't put your character in the red some other way. You might not be any good with them and might never even use what you bought... but the rest of the game is perfectly fine. In those games spending $20 wont give you a handicap. Here for the moment at least it can plausibly do that. You could spend that and end up with terribly expensive mech liable to go into the red when you lose with no particular warning beforehand. I don't mind learning the hard way but spending money like that just to do it seems silly. Not to mention we have no meta game to justify expensive hammers right now anyway. I might break out a mech with Ferro to smash some Liao but right now there's nothing but my personal gain at stake so...nah.

I think one of the Forza games tried letting you buy the cars with real money, but topped out at $2 or something.

Of course the shop tab doesn't even work yet. Maybe some of this will make more sense when it does. The CB economy doesn't bother me though. It's just slow and without any context or supply/demand.

[Omni Tek]

I like the idea of a free mech but I'd let them pick a free mech of any weight class not everyone likes to run a medium, not to mention the only medium I'd suggest to anyone playing the game is a hunchback. (and I know more mechs are on the way)

[James Warren]

Sug, on 16 December 2012 - 02:36 PM, said:

http://www.amazon.com/Business-Intelligence-For -Dummies

Oh haha, very funny.
I didn't realise making a game enjoyable was a bad business move. Do you think people who feel the way the OP does are likely to spend a whole stack of money on the game? Or any, since micro-transactions are meant to be how F2P games survive (without falling back on advertisements).

People will be more likely to support the game financially if they enjoy it.
Are you implying that keeping elements of the game chore-like will improve PGI's business in the long term? I don't have a problem with the economy overall, I just think that people should be able to play assault mechs all the time if they want to play assault mechs all the time (once they have purchased or earned enough c-bills to have one, if I need to clarify). PGI has done a great job making the weight classes feel distinct so I think its only fair that people can stick to the weight class that suits them.

Besides, please show a little more courtesy and take the time to write an actual counter-argument. Someone only a few posts above you asked for a little more maturity from the community.