87 replies to this topic

[Sug]

Jade Kitsune, on 16 December 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

American Minimum Wage is 5.15 an hour? Maybe back in the late 90's.
Dude minimum wage has been 7.25 for at least a few years.

Depends on the state. It's $8.25 in mine. Woooooooooo

$5.15 in Wyoming wtf.

Edited by Sug, 16 December 2012 - 04:23 PM.

[James Warren]

Sug, on 16 December 2012 - 03:56 PM, said:

It's not. I was commenting on the post saying we should remove the cost of repairs, the cost of ammo, and standardize the price of mechs.

Alright, maybe I didn't clarify my opinion enough, sorry. Or maybe you didn't read what I wrote properly. I don't mean that we should make the 'grind' lower or standardize the price of mechs. I don't think that part of the economy is a problem. I didn't say standardise the cost of buying mechs, I meant standardise the price of repairs between variants. So if you're running XL engine, etc.. ..those should be balanced by means other than repair cost.

Same for ammo. I personally believe we shouldn't pay to rearm since that favours energy weapons over ammunition based weapons. I don't think these should be balanced based on cost to use them. Match rewards could be reduced somewhat to compensate. The drawbacks to using ammunition based weapons should be: having to fit ammo, having limited ammo per match, having to equip case if you don't want internal ammo explosions.

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While I agree that the new player experience needs an overhaul (the bonus for 1st 25 matches is a good start) I don't agree with people (OP included) complaining about the real world cost of the game. They want a Free to Play game to give things away. 99% of the game can be acquired with time spent playing, and the 1% that requires MC does not give people an advantage.

I can't argue with that and I wasn't trying to. I was only really talking about balancing costs based on lore rather than gameplay (which was the line from the OP I originally quoted).

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What is a chore? Playing 2 hours to buy your first mech? Paying for repairs? That's part of the game. Compared to other F2P or MMO's I think the pacing of MWO is actually pretty good.

I think it can feel like a chore to play in a suboptimal money-making build so that you can run the mech you've spent hours earning, customizing and stuff. Sure, you can still have fun playing that kind of mech, but you have to understand that not everyone will. Additionally, it doesn't seem fair on the rest of the team if you've compromised your mech's effectiveness to save on money. I just don't think that running costs should factor into what mech you play once you have acquired it.

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Keep in mind there is no "end game". When you find a mech you like and hit master cbills and Xp become worthless.

Yeah, absolutely. At this stage when new content is being delivered pretty frequently I doubt anyone except the most dedicated players have reached this stage yet, which is a good sign. Maybe PGI needs to offer something else to sink ludicrous sums of c-bills into (cosmetics maybe, or contributing c-bills to a faction as part of community warfare) that won't detract from the experience for everyone who hasn't reached that stage.

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What is stopping them from doing that?

Its only the people who have builds that are expensive to run (ie repair and rearm) who cannot do so all the time, which was basically the only point I wanted to make - this would make sense in lore and in singleplayer but not for a competitive online game.

You shouldn't ever leave a match with fewer c-bills than you started with unless you shot up friendlies or something like that.

Edited by James Warren, 16 December 2012 - 04:41 PM.

[Byk]

I agree OP. The MC price tag on everything, not just mechs, is too high. The trial mechs are not good compared to mechs you can customize. They don't rotate nearly enough. 4 mech variants to try out of 44, with that number growing each time a new mech is released? That's not nearly a large enough sample to figure out what you like to play. Combined with the fact that the C-bill grind for non-premium owners is frustratingly slow. Add on top of that a reduced C-bill intake just for the fact that you're forced to use a trial mech if you're a beginner? Add *again* on top of that that you get zero experience for the mech variants that you spend a ton of time playing as trial mechs because you are getting crap for money.

[Sug]

James Warren, on 16 December 2012 - 04:36 PM, said:

Alright, maybe I didn't clarify my opinion enough, sorry. Or maybe you didn't read what I wrote properly. I don't mean that we should make the 'grind' lower or standardize the price of mechs. I don't think that part of the economy is a problem. I didn't say standardise the cost of buying mechs, I meant standardise the price of repairs between variants. So if you're running XL engine, etc.. ..those should be balanced by means other than repair cost.

I know what you said. I'm still not talking about your post

James Warren, on 16 December 2012 - 04:36 PM, said:

You shouldn't ever leave a match with fewer c-bills than you started with unless you shot up friendlies or something like that.

I disagree. : /

[soarra]

Byk, on 16 December 2012 - 04:45 PM, said:

I agree OP. The MC price tag on everything, not just mechs, is too high. The trial mechs are not good compared to mechs you can customize. They don't rotate nearly enough. 4 mech variants to try out of 44, with that number growing each time a new mech is released? That's not nearly a large enough sample to figure out what you like to play. Combined with the fact that the C-bill grind for non-premium owners is frustratingly slow. Add on top of that a reduced C-bill intake just for the fact that you're forced to use a trial mech if you're a beginner? Add *again* on top of that that you get zero experience for the mech variants that you spend a ton of time playing as trial mechs because you are getting crap for money.

they are not suppose to be as good as owned mechs.

[James Warren]

Sug, on 16 December 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

I disagree. : /

Why?

[MrPenguin]

soarra, on 16 December 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

lies the christmas lights in the cockpit makes any mech OP.
it takes no time to earn money for a mech even in trials without premium time.

Hey hey hey....

...I actually HAVE christmas lights.



And yes, they make me OP.

[Tirick Fire]

To be honest, in the current economy you are better off running only trials and skipping on the owned mechs. I have a stable of 5 mechs, currently parked. Per loss match (lets say, 50% of the time, which is generous, I'm not 'l33t' by any means), I often only earn ('take home', post R/R) 10-20,000 CBills in my owned mechs , and have earned at a loss on a few matches. I am guaranteed 60,000 CBills in a trial, up to 90-100,000 CBills with a win. On a win (50% again) in my owned mechs, with Repair/Rearm, I am looking at only 30-50K more than with a trial. The only 'benefit' is gaining XP, which is IMHO a marginal improvement. Certainly not enough to justify running at a 50K loss on average.

Bloody waste of money.

Until the economy is improved, it is trials all the way for me. I am getting fairly good at heat management at least.

[Budor]

New players will get increased cbills for their first 25 games wuth tuesdays patch. Lets wait and see how that plays out kay?

[Belkor]

Customizable trial mechs would help balance things out against customized mechs.

[Zero Neutral]

Volez, on 16 December 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

The mechs are just way too expensive in real money, and the trial mechs are too bad. The economy is ridiculously badly designed and is severly limiting gameplay experience, fun, balances, and skill output.
What am i supposed to do as a beginner? The trial mechs are too bad and there are too many difference types of mechs to get a good idea of what is really good by playing the trials. So should i buy 10 $30 mechs and try which one i like.......? And then only be abled to use it half of the time because the developers care more about a roleplaying-wise economy than actual gameplay?
Normally i would have no trouble dumping abit of money into a game but i dont even see a reasonable possibilty here.....

That's strange... I played the game like twice in a trial mech, realized that I would like it, spent $60, and I'm still playing...

In other words, your entire argument is invalid because I was a new player at one time, who didn't have much problem with trial mechs, and who also got in to the cash shop immediately.

Edited by Zero Neutral, 16 December 2012 - 06:46 PM.

[Wraith05]

MrPenguin, on 16 December 2012 - 04:19 PM, said:

Good thing you don't have to pay that much,... actually, you don't have to pay a penny.

You're right, you don't have to pay. But how much will you enjoy the game once PGI runs out of money for imporvements, servers, etc... and players start to leave. Meanwhile the new players don't want to play after their initial impressions to the game.

[MrPenguin]

Wraith05, on 16 December 2012 - 06:56 PM, said:

You're right, you don't have to pay. But how much will you enjoy the game once PGI runs out of money for imporvements, servers, etc... and players start to leave. Meanwhile the new players don't want to play after their initial impressions to the game.

The games fine financially though. So I don't really get what your point is...

[Wraith05]

MrPenguin, on 16 December 2012 - 06:58 PM, said:

The games fine financially though. So I don't really get what your point is...

It is fine atm. The current payerbase won't supply cash flow forever. You need new players for that. Without new players this game will die down the line.

[soarra]

world ends in a few days so dont worry about the future of gaming

[Franchi]

Jade Kitsune, on 16 December 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

American Minimum Wage is 5.15 an hour? Maybe back in the late 90's.

Dude minimum wage has been 7.25 for at least a few years.

Serves me right for trusting a .gov site

Sug, on 16 December 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

Depends on the state. It's $8.25 in mine. Woooooooooo

$5.15 in Wyoming wtf.

Employees are "entitled" to the federal minimum wage if the state minimum is lower.

Edited by Franchi, 16 December 2012 - 07:05 PM.

[MrPenguin]

Wraith05, on 16 December 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

It is fine atm. The current payerbase won't supply cash flow forever. You need new players for that. Without new players this game will die down the line.

What are you basing this off exactly?
Its not that I don't agree with the basic point, but where are you getting the "they're loosing revenue" from?

Edited by MrPenguin, 16 December 2012 - 07:12 PM.

[Wraith05]

MrPenguin, on 16 December 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

What are you basing this off exactly?
Its not that I don't agree with the basic point, but where are you getting the "they're loosing revenue" from?

Well they have a staff that has to be paid (or else no work), as well as equipment usage/maintenance. Currently we have people interested in the mechwarrior franchise putting money into the game (founders etc...). But at some point they will have bought all they want/willing to buy and won't want to put more into it.

So the devs either need to keep introducing items people will want to spend money on. Make current items not everyone wants to buy more appealing, or make the game more friendly to newer players so they will spend their money.

I find the last to be the most effective method.

Plus, without new players to fill up the matches (as the old players will eventually leave) you'll find games becoming less and less frequent. Even those that don't pay are needed in the F2P model.

[PANZERBUNNY]

Belkor, on 16 December 2012 - 06:45 PM, said:

Customizable trial mechs would help balance things out against customized mechs.

That won't be happening.

Defeats the purpose.

trial mechs intro you to the game and eventually you move off them into "real" mechs and learn more about the game when you have some C-Bills to waste.

[PANZERBUNNY]

MrPenguin, on 16 December 2012 - 07:11 PM, said:

What are you basing this off exactly?
Its not that I don't agree with the basic point, but where are you getting the "they're loosing revenue" from?

If they had a better marketing idea instead of over priced gouging for features that a minority of people use to it's fullest...ie Camo and paint that is a purchase which disappears if you decide you want another.

They don't seem to understand that moving more units cheaper is better than less units and people, but more expensive.

They need a large variety of paints and camos to make it awesome, but the way it is now, without a wardrobe for your mech is brutal and I will never, ever spend MC on Colour and Camo until it's changed.

125Mc is fine for colour and Camo, but it needs to be unlocked on our account and used by all our mechs. This is greedy desperation and currently a terrible business practice.

I said it in the past, link in Camo and colour with the premium account status Perhaps even only let Premium players unlock permanent Colour and camo.

They need to give more reasons for people to pay for premium status.