28 replies to this topic

[Mucia Prata]

I'm still green when it comes to this game and piloting a mech (I only played a little bit of MechWarrior 4 years ago), but I've taken to the Jenner as my preferred mech of choice. Namely, because of the style. I really like the mech style of the Jenner, Raven, Cicada, and Catapult.

I haven't used a Cicada (or even played around with a medium, heavy, or assault mech), but I've been looking at it as a possible mech to change to.

I currently have two Jenners.

Jenner JR7-D (Freyja)
4 SL
2 Streak SRM2
AMS

Jenner JR7-K (Scaevola)
4 ML
1 SRM4
AMS

Both only have the Standard 245, but I plan to upgrade to the XL300 when I get the dough.

I've come to find myself better at supporting heavies and assaults (after a suggestion to watch heavies' backs). I know I've seen a few Jenner scout mechs, but mostly the scouts are Commandos and Ravens.

So my question is, if I want to find myself in a "heavy/assault support" role, would Jenner be good for that? I've actually found myself having more survivability, kill assists, and kills by doing this. My main role has been to keep lights and others off their backs so they can focus on sniping or whatever.

Or would Cicada be a good idea to upgrade to? I've looked at the Cicada though, and notice that it doesn't have SRM hardpoints, but mostly energy and ballistic hardpoints. As well, their tonnage is only 5 more than the Jenner, but their max armor is about 40 points larger than that of the Jenner.

With the playstyle I have, would it be worth it to get into a Cicada and play a support role? Or is it better to stick with the Jenner for that?

I've seen others around state that the Cicada is almost useless, and the Jenner is better. Though I've read others say it's great for "scout hunting." I have maybe seen one or two Cicada pilots in the dozens of matches I've been in thus far.

I'm still learning, so if this entire thread is really stupid and doesn't make sense because I don't know what I'm talking about...

My apologies. ^^

[Ursh]

Keep the Jenners, and you can really effectively protect heavies and assaults.

The whole team suffers when an atlas has to stop firing at mediums, heavies, and assaults because some light mech is blowing out his back. You don't even have to necessarily kill the other lights, you just need to drive them away. When they start running, the atlas will get a chance to get some shots on them.

Also, without the 300xl, you're not really fast enough to be a deep scount in the current game world. You don't have the speed to escape from other Jenners or other lights.

So basically, keep supporting your heavies and assaults and they'll wreck the other team if they know what they're doing. You'll find yourself plenty busy because the goal of so many fast-movers right now is to abuse the lagshield and take out assaults from behind. Many of them aren't particularly brave, and some of them aren't very skilled, so they will run away when faced with adversity, or they'll die quick because they'll be so engrossed in circle strafing the atlas that they won't pay attention to you stripping them.

Tip, when you see them circle strafing, circle strafe them running in the opposite direction so you can alpha them in the face a lot. I say this for two reasons. 1) They're probably going to be faster than you, and you'll find yourself consistently in danger of shooting the teammate they're circling, or your srms and lasers will fly right past their back. 2) They'll probably be busy using their alpha on the back of your teammate, so you're not in as much danger of being hit in the face from it. It's also easier to get the full damage from a medium laser if you make them run through it, rather than trying to chase them with it.

[Greyrook]

Supporting heavier mechs is an important aspect of a scout's job, but which mech is best for you is going to come down to personal preference. The only thing you may want to try out is a variant with ECM, as being able to protect friendly mechs and counter enemy jamming and can really help your team. As for the mech chassis themselves, everybody has an opinion and will say one is better than the other and vice versa; it's all based on the pilot and unfortunately saving up to try out a chassis is the only sure way to decide. All other things being equal, I'd probably go with the Jenner because I like jump jets and SSRMs. But, I pilot a Raven 3L, so I'm probably not the best judge in this matter.

[Mucia Prata]

Thanks!

So if I wanted to continue with the heavy/assault support role, would you recommend going with the 300XL still? Or sticking with a standard so I'm not as easy to destroy when working the support role?

Switching from a standard 245 to a 300XL is only going to free up 1.5 tons on either of my Jenners. About enough to throw on a heat sink. I know with the 300XL over the standard 245, I'll definitely have more time to shoot since I'll have better heat efficiency (I do believe), so that's a bonus.

But if speed isn't what I'm worried about (if I'm going to be keeping up with a heavy), would it be better suited to increase just slightly into an XL (like a 250 or something), so that I free up some tonnage, increase my speed, and my heat efficiency?

Especially since I'm using a Jenner? I figure if I'm going to be doing an ECM role, I'll go with the Raven 3L (which I might pick up). But with my current Jenner builds (the JR7-D has 214 armor, and the JR7-K has 194), as a support mech role only and not scouting, what engine would be best?

Edit: I also did the "alpha them in the face" tactic in a match earlier today. I was following around an Atlas, and some Commando came out of nowhere. The Atlas turned to deal with it, apparently saw me, and went on shooting at others while I destroyed the Commando after a few alphas right to its center.

Edited by Mucia Prata, 17 December 2012 - 03:14 AM.

[Ursh]

Well, I think Jenners should have an xl in them. So, one thing you can look at is going with a 280xl or 285xl, as you'll still be really freaking fast once you get speed tweak, and you'll have additional tonnage for weapons or armor. At some point you will need to use this speed, because you will also be responsible for responding to people attacking your base, or you may need to rush out for a fast cap, depending on the flow of the game. I've piloted three Jenners through elites, so this has been my experience so far with them.

Speed kills more than weapons do when it comes to light mechs. 280xl is the minimum I would go. With speed tweak you'll still be going 139.8kph, which is the same speed a normal jenner with a 300xl runs if they don't have speed tweak. With a 300xl and speed tweak, I think it's 148 or 149kph. The 300xl is also really useful in the catapult and several other chassis. Also, there are some Centurion 9D pilots (like me) who run really fast, and they will blow you away if you can't put some distance between you and them.

Don't worry about ams, as it won't help against streaks or srms, and you're fast enough to move behind cover to dodge lrms.

Good luck, I hope my information has been helpful for you.

[Syncline]

If you want to support the heavies and assaults, I suggest a Hunchback or Centurion. Speed isn't important because if you chase an enemy mech you are no longer supporting the assaults, you are abandoning them. You only need enough speed to keep up with the main body and a little extra for positioning yourself to intercept anyone who gets too close.

Both mechs can easily reach speeds useful to protect the fatties, and they can mount a lot of weaponry and armor. Even if you end up in a slugging match with the enemy fatties, as long as you keep your wits about you you can survive.

[Wrenchfarm]

I've recently been running a Cicada-3M with the goal of assisting the heavies on my team while being able to harass the enemies biggies depending on the situation.

I'm running with a 320XL engine, 2 MLAS, 2 MPLAS, ECM, 14 DHS and near max armour. The result is a fairly beefy fast mover who can keep up with all but the fastest Jenners and Ravens (and since I don't want to get too far away from my heavy buddies that rarely matters.)

The benefits of the CDA-3M as a support mech -
- ECM coverage for heavies, they can move without being eaten by LRMs. Can be switched to Counter mode to cancel out a ECM Raven or Commando trying to get in their grill.
- Lasers are sustainable and offer a good ratio of damage to tonnage.
- Lasers are decent anti-scout weapons
- The Cicada is fast and can use its ECM to pester big enemy heavies.
- Not tank-like durable, but can take a few stray hits while backing up the big guys (better than say a glass Commando)
- Looks super cool

The negatives -
- No streaks, no giant alpha strike
- Has a hard time with streak capable scouts on its own (can be caught out going for a back cap)
- Limited range

I like it. It gives you a lot of versatility. You can weave in and out the largest mass of teammates like an angry bee, ready to sting anything that gets too close. You have the speed to quickly flank a distracted enemy, to retreat quickly if they switch their attention to you, and to come to the rescue of a friend in need. The compliment of lasers can do decent damage and are excellent for singling out specific body parts.

I think the 3M is a good choice for Heavy support. However, I will second Syncline's comment - the other medium mechs also make excellent support choices. With a 245-250 engine, both Hunchies and Cents can boot around near 90kph and carry an aggressive load out. While lasers and streaks are obvious choices that the HBK-4SP, CN9-AL and -A can all pull off, you can also get trickier. Since so many harassing lights run ECM these days, try attaching a TAG and some LRMs, hover back away from your heavies and target any lights that come up to them with TAG from outside their ECM bubble. A few volleys of LRMs and lasers will send them scurrying away, and if you are working with a team you might even have a good chance of taking them out with a missile strike. You also still maintain good skrimishing power against the heavier mechs on the enemy team.

A sample load out I've been enjoying would be the HBK-4SP, 250 STD engine, 11 DHS, ENDO, 4 MLAS in arms, TAG in head, 2 LRM10s in chest, 3 tons of LRM ammo, 320 (of max 338) armour. Honestly one of the best all around builds I've made. Runs a little hot with repeated laser alphas, but manageable. Great support for your heavies in every way.

[Budor]

If you want to keep lights of assaults or heavies buy a laserboat (Hunchback-4(S)P or Awesome 9M) or a SSRM ECM mech (Raven-3L or Commando-2D)

While the ECM cicada somehow fits the laser role due to ssrms you will be outcheesed by the other 2 ecm lights.

4P and 2D are the cheapest.

P.S. The CN9-A with 260 standard, 2x mplas, 3x ssrm2 would be my choice for this before ECM. Its a great mech but i do not run streaks on anything that has no ECM anymore.

Edited by Budor, 17 December 2012 - 08:24 AM.

[Elizander]

Jenners are still great combat light mechs and are only overshadowed by ECM. It doesn't change the fact that you can still make any other slow mech's day a living hell and other lights will still have to respect you due to your armor and weapons loadout. If you stand beside an ECM D-DC then you pretty much get your own ECM anyway.

Just keep practicing shooting down other light mechs without SSRM2s and I think you will do great. The extra pressure from having a 100 ton mech backing you up will ensure that other light mech pilots will have a bit more to worry about rather than when they face either you or the assault alone.

I guess you can mount an AMS to help them out against LRMs (sometimes people still shoot them) but do that after you get a good engine and free up more weight. Speaking of which, I'll see what I can do with my Founders Jenner and my Ilya Muromet's 280XL engine...

Edit:

Tried it, but 130 kph is too fast for my internet. I was teleporting all over the place.

Tried again, definitely cannot play this. The self-imposed teleporting and rubberbanding is beyond playable at this speed.

Edited by Elizander, 17 December 2012 - 09:51 AM.

[Ursh]

With the 280xl you can make the heat more manageable by adding an extra double heat sink or two. The speed difference is barely noticeable, considering how fast you're already moving.

[Konril]

I have a small confession. I am a CDA-3M Cicada pilot. Actually, I started out by making a specific push to master the CN9-D Centurion, and was given reason to switch rides due to the ECM issue. I decided on the Cicada, because then I could use the fact that I am Elite with 3 Centurion models to reduce the grind with the trashy Cicada models. That means, My other two Cicadas simply got through the Basic training before I took the CDA-3M up through mastery and sold the other two.

My CDA-3M is currently just a half-ton shy of max armor with Endo-Steel upgrade and the original XL engine and double heat sinks. I tried several different weapon configurations and my best so far is the ECM, 2 medium lasers, PPC, and a TAG, which fills up all four energy hard points and ignores the one ballistic hard point. Yes, that is PPC and TAG.

Unfortunately, lasers are at a bit of a disadvantage in light vs. light or Cicada vs. light battles. Standard medium lasers need to be held on target for a full second in order to do their full damage, which is near impossible when both the attacker and target are zipping around at 140 kph. Streaks with ECM to counter ECM jamming are the best thing a light has to hurt other lights. Behind that, the next best thing is Artemis guided or even standard SRMs. They're harder to hit with. But unlike with lasers they do their damage instantly, so they tend to be better in high speed hit & run fighting.

My one saving grace, and it's honestly a bit of a double edged sword, is that as a Cicada pilot, I'm not matched against other lights, but instead other mediums. I know when I drop into a battle, the odds are high that the other team is going to have a Hunchback or Centurion on the opposite team to counter me. So I don't have as much need to actually chase those pesky Commandos all over the place unless the team's own Commando or Raven did something stupid. That was something of a hard lesson for me to learn though. While working on the mastery I have a few games where I would get obsessed with jousting with an ECM Commando only to end up alone against the whole enemy team of 8. There is just no winning in that situation.

[Wrenchfarm]

Konril, on 17 December 2012 - 10:50 AM, said:

My one saving grace, and it's honestly a bit of a double edged sword, is that as a Cicada pilot, I'm not matched against other lights, but instead other mediums. I know when I drop into a battle, the odds are high that the other team is going to have a Hunchback or Centurion on the opposite team to counter me. So I don't have as much need to actually chase those pesky Commandos all over the place unless the team's own Commando or Raven did something stupid. That was something of a hard lesson for me to learn though. While working on the mastery I have a few games where I would get obsessed with jousting with an ECM Commando only to end up alone against the whole enemy team of 8. There is just no winning in that situation.

This is the exact reason I went for the Cicada. Wanted a ECM mech, didn't want to spawn another Raven or Jenner on the enemy team.

Glad I'm not the only one who will engage in slightly grimy meta-gaming! (Also, I think the Cicada just looks badical)

[Hex Pallett]

There's no point for abandoning your Jenny unless you're obsessed with ECM. What's best for scout hunting? MLas. What's even better for scout hunting? SSRM. Jenner does better in BOTH. Not mentioning the Jumpjet capability (you see why Jenner's arm-mounted lasers come in handy), and the fact that Cicada is almost twice as large as Jenner. Merely one less ton of armor than Cicada? That's the price I'd like to pay.

Now the problem is down to ECM.

Which can be countered by TAG.

See?

[Stingz]

Helmstif, on 17 December 2012 - 05:58 PM, said:

There's no point for abandoning your Jenny unless you're obsessed with ECM. What's best for scout hunting? MLas. What's even better for scout hunting? SSRM. Jenner does better in BOTH. Not mentioning the Jumpjet capability (you see why Jenner's arm-mounted lasers come in handy), and the fact that Cicada is almost twice as large as Jenner. Merely one less ton of armor than Cicada? That's the price I'd like to pay.

Now the problem is down to ECM.

Which can be countered by TAG.

See?

ECM within 180 means all locks are shutdown.

I love getting revenge on Jenners with my Commando now they can't Streak me. x2 Streak-2 + M.Pulse, XL210 COM-2D. Pulse has more damage/accuracy to offset the single laser slot and high speeds.

[Mucia Prata]

So I tried my first medium by using the Hunchback trial mech.

I got demolished. Worse than I did with my Jenners (even the trial Jenner).

I might try again, but it was quick.

[Eisenhorne]

the trial hunchie is the worst one available, honestly.

Try the Awesome AWS-9M, honestly. Yes, its heat inefficient. Yes, you need to have some fire discipline... but I can pull 600+ damage in it as fire support, no problem, and it has the capacity to deal with lights that get too close.

Put your PPC's in fire group 1, your SSRM's in group 2, and your pulse lasers in group 3.

Basically, NEVER fire your PPC's at close range, only use groups 2 and 3 for targets closer than 180 meters (unless your at like 20% heat, and the target isn't moving, or is moving slow enough to make it a 100% sure shot).

[Wrenchfarm]

Mucia Prata, on 17 December 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

So I tried my first medium by using the Hunchback trial mech.

I got demolished. Worse than I did with my Jenners (even the trial Jenner).

I might try again, but it was quick.

The trial Hunch is a blight on the Hunchback name. Terrible. You would see better results in a more well constructed Hunch I assure you.

[Mucia Prata]

Eisenhorne, on 17 December 2012 - 10:03 PM, said:

Try the Awesome AWS-9M, honestly. Yes, its heat inefficient. Yes, you need to have some fire discipline... but I can pull 600+ damage in it as fire support, no problem, and it has the capacity to deal with lights that get too close.

I might try an assault in the future, but they don't interest me as much. Having tons of firepower isn't as interesting as supporting those with tons of firepower. I do plan to get a Catapult sometime, but that's because I like the design of Jenners, Ravens, Cicadas and Catapults, and want one of each eventually.

Quote

Put your PPC's in fire group 1, your SSRM's in group 2, and your pulse lasers in group 3.

That would be a bad idea. I remapped my keys. Fire Group 1 is Left Click; Fire Group 2 is Right Click; Fire Group 3 is Q; Fire Group 4 is E; Fire Group 5 is F; Fire Group 6 is Mouse 4.

The way I have my Jenner set up is that, FG1 is my right-arm lasers, and FG2 is my left arm lasers. FG5 fires my S/SRMS, and FG6 fires all my lasers at once. Mouse 3 is my alpha. Whatever weapons I use the most will be put on FGs 1 and 2.

Quote

Basically, NEVER fire your PPC's at close range, only use groups 2 and 3 for targets closer than 180 meters (unless your at like 20% heat, and the target isn't moving, or is moving slow enough to make it a 100% sure shot).

Long range doesn't interest me all that much. I actually thought that, if I get a Hunchback or Centurion I'm going to probably change out the LRMs for SRMs or SSRMs. Though, I do get some enemies trying to pick me off at long range before trying to close in on my heavy/assault buddy. So I could see good use for LRMs in those instances. I'll have to play around with those more. I'll probably go with the Centurion because I like the design more though.

I want my mech to be useful, but I also want to like the design of the mech. I'll just have to resist calling my Centurion "Caprica 6" or something. xD

Wrenchfarm, on 17 December 2012 - 10:19 PM, said:

The trial Hunch is a blight on the Hunchback name. Terrible. You would see better results in a more well constructed Hunch I assure you.

What about Centurions? If I wanted to go with one of the two "armed" mechs in the medium tree, would Centurion do well for support as a Hunchback? Or pretty much the same level of support from the two?

[Eisenhorne]

The CN9-A is VICIOUS in close combat... give it 3x SRM6 w/ artemis, 2 MPL... goes 80 KPH, 65 damage alpha strikes, impossible to kill. Deadly as hell.

[Mucia Prata]

Eisenhorne, on 17 December 2012 - 10:41 PM, said:

The CN9-A is VICIOUS in close combat... give it 3x SRM6 w/ artemis, 2 MPL... goes 80 KPH, 65 damage alpha strikes, impossible to kill. Deadly as hell.

I might go ahead and give the CN9-A a try.

Using those mechs feels awkward to me, because I have one free hand that just...does nothing. I'm like, "what am I using this hand for? I wish I could punch a mech with it or something."

I understand in the universe the hands are there for more than aesthetic purposes, just sucks they are useless in this game.

Edit: Went ahead and bought a Centurion CN9-A. Named it "Horatius." In this mech, I declare, I will be like Hoartius at the Bridge!

I'm not sure if I did it well though. I didn't increase the armor at all. I changed the structure to Endo-Steel, was going to change to Ferros, but that took up way too many slots.

My loadout is:
2 ML
1AC/10 (2 ammo)
2 SRM6 (2 ammo)
1 SRM2
10 Heat Sinks
STD Engine 200

Speed: 64.8
Firepower: 55
Heat Efficiency: .88
Armor - Standard: 272

I won't even be able to increase my engine really, since I don't have the tonnage.

Any help on making this a good short-range support mech.

Edited by Mucia Prata, 18 December 2012 - 12:04 AM.