61 replies to this topic

[Elizander]

Dragons usually need an XL Engine to perform better but these cost just as much as the Dragon itself, if not more.

If they release those two 'hero' Dragons (as we suspect they are) and they make one a little slower with better hardpoint placement (for brawling) and the other one coming with its own XL Engine at high speeds then we might see a bit more rise in Dragon popularity.

One of them should at least have an energy hardpoint in the head for a flamer! Or should that be the CT?

Edited by Elizander, 17 December 2012 - 09:15 AM.

[Roland]

The Dragon is a garbage mech.

[Zynk]

zverofaust, on 17 December 2012 - 08:00 AM, said:

I've noticed very few Dragons lately, but tons of Cataphracts. Like sometimes 4 on a single team every game. Is there a reason? Is the Cataphract just loads better? If so, could/should anything be done to improve the Dragon's status as a contender for the Heavy Mech?

Cataphract flavor of the month but that changes tomorrow with the release of the Stalker.

The fact that the ILYA MUROMETS is a Hero mech also is why you see so many people are trying to master the IM, which is the reason you seen so many Centurions just after the YEN-LO-WANG was released.

Unless the Dragon (or Grand Dragon) is released as a Hero mech I do not think you will see a lot of them, unless their knock down ability is reinstated.

[Orzorn]

Roland, on 17 December 2012 - 09:18 AM, said:

The Dragon is a garbage mech.

The fact that I can compete with my corp mates in their cataphracts says otherwise. They'll do upwards of 800 damage per match in their Cataphract builds, and I can manage upwards of 600 damage with my Dragon build. Remember that we've got a difference of 10 tons, as well.

[Mavairo]

Dragon requires alot more skill and situational awareness to roll effectively with it.

I usually outlive just about all the cataphracts on the field. (much to my amusement) and usually kill as many or more mechs as they do.

Most people I've found can't chew bubble gum and walk at the same time. Which is a skill that is mandatory to even work a dragon's arms properly. So they take the big blunder buss Caterpillar instead. If you really know how to place your shots especially on the run the dragon is one of the best mechs in the game. The arms are phenomenal for aiming. (best travel in the game along all 3 axis)

My 1C has decent firepower and solid speed. (104.7 kph to be exact) 2 LLs, 2 MLs 1 SRM6 mmm.
My 1N has a crotch full of rockets and isn't the least bit afraid of using them. 2 LLs, 1 AC5, 2 SRM4s
My 5N is a surgeon. I use it's arm mounted weapons to their fullest when I can. 2 LLs, 1 SRM6, AC10

The Dragon also pretty much require a full bling out in order to work properly It's ungodly expensive. Most of my friends, and then people that get on my team if they ask me how much just one of my dragons cost they go "Oh my god. Seriously?" over it. It needs DHS, an XL engine (at least a 300 for the best builds. My 1C has an XL360 in it. I'll just let that thought sit in your mind for a minute), and alot of it's weapons are pricier for the best shooting possible.

The Dragon responds particularly well to all of these things, more so than the other heavy's I have found honestly. Due to the precision fire capabilities too, it's particularly suited for Big Lazorz, and or big AutoCannons.
The day I can mount an AC20 in one of the arms I'll die and go on to heaven though. I'd love to be able to aim the arm down range, pick a vulnerable piece of enemy mech, all the while still moving at 87+kph and blow it to pieces just from one ballistic shot.

It's not uncommon for me to hit around 800 damage in the Dragons, (any of them) more common is 350 to 500. I average 2 to 4 kills a match in all of my variants, and I score anywhere from 4 to 6 assists. It's a pilot's mech though. If you aren't good at keeping track of the battlefield, staying mobile, and still being able to put shots down range at the appropriate time the dragon isn't for you though. It's not an every mans mech like the big blunderer is.

Edited by Mavairo, 17 December 2012 - 09:33 AM.

[Timelordwho]

Pygar, on 17 December 2012 - 08:11 AM, said:

Cataphract is a better frame for stacking lots of guns on, and can have Jump Jets on some builds.

Dragon (what I fly) is much more like a middle weight mech in build and capabilities...it's a good "Jack of all Trades" mech, tough to fly sometimes because of it's lack of specialization. (but sometimes the versatility really helps in battles)

Dragons are sorta like mediums with 10 tons more engine.

[Belorion]

The Dragon is a striker/harasser chassis. The Cataphract is a brawler chassis. Many of the people wanting to play a heavy brawler were using Dragons. Now they are using Cataphracts

[Noodlesoup]

it's because the majority of mechs that get seen and used are heavies.and especially heavies in the 65-75 ton range. they mix a blend of armor and weaponry with acceptable mobility to result in a very high power and flexible platform in most cases. we need more 65-75 ton mechs in MWO. it's a shame there's only 2 so far (both of which have proved to be insanely popular).

[Trauglodyte]

I guess it comes down to the fact that the Cataphract is a lil heavier, thus has more protection. Plus it carries more weapons. And, finally, with the Cataphract, you're limited to two weapon types (with the exception of the one version that has a missile launcher in its noggin) where as the Dragon gives you a mix of all three weapon types.

I'd really like to run a dragon but it feels like the Cicada all over again. You're bigger than the smaller lights and as fast as the smaller lights but, in order to get all of that, you sacrifice weapon mounts. Its not a lot of fun being faster just to be out gunned.

[TruePoindexter]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 December 2012 - 08:08 AM, said:

70 ton is a Mech Sweet spot tonnage. Good speed, good load out potentual (Archer, Warhammer, Grasshopper etc) really good builds all 70 ton.

Basically this. The Dragon is a little light for a heavy at 60 tons. Plus it doesn't help that at least for me it feels really awkward to use.

I expect that the Jagermech when it arrives will see significant use as well as reduce the number of Cataphracts running around.

Edited by TruePoindexter, 17 December 2012 - 11:09 AM.

[bionicbadger]

Quote

The day I can mount an AC20 in one of the arms I'll die and go on to heaven though. I'd love to be able to aim the arm down range, pick a vulnerable piece of enemy mech, all the while still moving at 87+kph and blow it to pieces just from one ballistic shot.

so go buy a Yen-Lo-Wang...

[Roughneck45]

Trauglodyte, on 17 December 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

I'd really like to run a dragon but it feels like the Cicada all over again. You're bigger than the smaller lights and as fast as the smaller lights but, in order to get all of that, you sacrifice weapon mounts. Its not a lot of fun being faster just to be out gunned.

Just depends how you build it.

My fast dragon goes 101kph, with 2 med laser, 2 streaks, and gauss.

[Vassago Rain]

The dragon isn't a good mech.

It carries less firepower than the other heavies, and has a very big, excessively odd hitbox, that means if you aim in its general direction, you'll almost be guaranteed of center torso damage.

Centurions make better zombies and runners, as well, and the cent is widely regarded as a pretty poor mech, outside of being one of your first mechs.

[SpiralRazor]

zverofaust, on 17 December 2012 - 08:00 AM, said:

I've noticed very few Dragons lately, but tons of Cataphracts. Like sometimes 4 on a single team every game. Is there a reason? Is the Cataphract just loads better? If so, could/should anything be done to improve the Dragon's status as a contender for the Heavy Mech?

Its 10 tons heavier and can mount commensurately more firepower. Also, Muromets and 4X can deliver a LOT of damage via Ballistics, something the Dragon will have ammo issues with.

Also, One cata can have jump jets, whereas the Dragon wont ever.

Dragon is Fast Medium Cavalry imo.... Cataphract is more like Light Assault. Different roles and shouldnt be balanced against each other.

[Spinning Burr]

MustrumRidcully, on 17 December 2012 - 08:12 AM, said:

I think it is difficult to use well. I am not sure if it's worth overcoming the difficulties, e.g. is it just a barrier to entry you can overcome, or is it something that will always be dragging you down?

I think a big problem is that you don'T have many interesting loadout possibilities right now. There are probably only 2 energy weapons that really viable right now for the Dragon. Medium Lasers or Large Lasers. But the Large LAser require a heavy investment in (Double) Heat Sinks to make good use of any. If you think about it, with a 5 medium laser Cicada or a 7 medium Laser Hunchback you can reach similar or higher speeds, but still maintain the same firepower.

It's speed advantage doesn't seem to quite generate lag shield advantages, so overall, it's lacklustre IMO.

If the weapon balance improves so that more viable energy weapons exist, and the lag shield is removed, speed may become less crucial for defensive purposes but remain important for positioning - and then the Dragon may have more users.
Maybe it will also require an adjustment to match-making, and the Dragon to some extend just shares the same fate as the pre-ECM Commando and the Awesome - they will be paired with much heavier mechs in their respective class, and this will often be a drawback.

I'm a long time Dragon and Centurian fan. I guess I'm a glutton for punishment since both mechs lose the bulk of their firepower when losing the right arm (the Cent more than the Dragon since the Cent is a one handed swordsman infantry and the Dragon is a dual handed swordsman cavalry). Currently I'm enjoying a Dragon loadout that is pure run-and-gun cavalry style. Gauss cannon in right arm. ER PPC in left arm. That's it. Really simple. No missiles or extra equipment or bells and whistles. No AMS. No BAP. No extra heat sinks except double 10 inside the engine. This loadout gives exactly the same mech in all three variants, ie each can create this exact warrior. Dual alt fire gauss/ERPPC is satisfying and effective when you land your shot. Exactly halfway between landing dual PPC and dual gauss you avoid the heat expendature and the ammo expendature. You can work on your ballistic aiming skill with this mech, and your maximum firepower is effective at all ranges, from point blank within 90m to over 1000m sniping. I have found that the PPC mates really well with the gauss cannon for ballistic firepower. Their heat and ammo signatures are exactly opposite. Choose ER PPC if you need close encounter firepower or you really love to snipe from far away. The PPC allows you to fire low probability rounds without eating through your precious gauss ammo. Save the dual fire for the shots that you know will land. With max xl engine of 360 and speed tweak, you are cruising at 105 kph but a bit light on armor and ammo. Drop the engine rating a bit to 350 xl to get more armor and gauss ammo and you are still at 101 kph and the fastest "real" mech on the field aside from the Centurian D variant.

[Thorqemada]

The Dragon would be a good Mech if we had super huge maps where a lot of quick reaction potential was favourable for the outcome of the combat but we have pretty small maps with ECM forcing everyone to the brawling gameplay and the Dragon simply sucks at that.
Also Lights in this game have more surviveability, more speed and can match the "usable" firepower of the Dragon.
I pliot passionately a Centurion which is widely received as unfavourable Mechs and there is no Dragon build out there i fear.
Every Light, every Hunchback, every other Mech is a bigger treat than a Dragon.
A good Cataphract tears me down in a few seconds where a Dragon only scratches the surface...
The Maps and the Gameplay simply do not favour this type of Mech atm.

[AllOuttaBubbleGum]

I just started using the dragon and I love it. A 97kph heavy is a nice change of pace s my fatlases. I've killed far too many phracts to flock to one of those. I think too many folks are running dragons as brawlers or long range snipers. The dragon is a hit and run support type mech.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I think there might be some people hating on the Dragon because they remember the time when they used to get steam rolled by them.

Back in the day when knock-down was still in the game. Dragon's would knock you down and then shoot you, just to knock you down again .

[Adridos]

It is a heavy mech, the only one right now, plain and simple.

Dragon is an oversized medium, and while that is not a bad thing, people have to get used to a style of play that has more advantages and disadvantages than a regular mech, which is a bit tougher. That's why we see less Cicadas than Jenners, Ravens, or Commandos.

Catapult is a completely different category.


... and yes, the "shiny new toy" part also helps to boost it's popularity.

[Roughneck45]

Vassago Rain, on 17 December 2012 - 12:10 PM, said:

It carries less firepower than the other heavies, and has a very big, excessively odd hitbox, that means if you aim in its general direction, you'll almost be guaranteed of center torso damage.

Speed for firepower, and that just depends on your build. Mine has a 50 firepower and has 87.1 kph top speed.

That center torso design makes it ideal for XL engines.