61 replies to this topic

[zverofaust]

I've noticed very few Dragons lately, but tons of Cataphracts. Like sometimes 4 on a single team every game. Is there a reason? Is the Cataphract just loads better? If so, could/should anything be done to improve the Dragon's status as a contender for the Heavy Mech?

[Congzilla]

because it is the new shiny right now.

[Lucky 7]

I for one really like the Cataphract. I play each variant I own with a different loadout/purpose/role.
Great fun this Mech.

Edited by Lucky 7, 17 December 2012 - 08:04 AM.

[El Penguin]

I think people prefer brawling mechs than fast mechs with fewer weapons. That's just my guess though.

[PurpleNinja]

Currently ACs are among the best weapons, Cataphracts can mount more of these weapons and still give a decent mobility.

When missiles were ruling the Battlefield, we had at least 12 Catapults per match.

[Grokmoo]

In my opinion, the Dragon is a solid mech (although I know many people disagree).

The Cataphract has some advantages though:

-It is the heaviest in its weight class. When you load up a Cataphract, you will get matched with something of the same weight or heavier. When you play a Dragon, you have a good chance of getting paired against a Cataphract. The Cataphract has 10 more tons, enabling it to carry substantially more firepower.

-The Cataphract can use its arms to shield its center torso. Torso twisting 90 degrees in a Dragon doesn't really do much since your torso sticks out so much.

-The Cataphract has a solid hero variant, and overall more flexibility in hardpoints than the Dragon.

[EyeOne]

Because the Cataphract is new and the Dragon sucks?

Edited by EyeOne, 17 December 2012 - 08:05 AM.

[Roughneck45]

Its just a firepower/speed trade off. Most people prefer firepower, so they choose the cataphract.

I prefer the Dragon.

[FrostPaw]

Right arm Everybody now knows you take the teeth out of a dragon by shooting its right arm.

Edited by FrostPaw, 17 December 2012 - 08:07 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

70 ton is a Mech Sweet spot tonnage. Good speed, good load out potentual (Archer, Warhammer, Grasshopper etc) really good builds all 70 ton.

[Aegis Kleais]

Congzilla, on 17 December 2012 - 08:02 AM, said:

because it is the new shiny right now.

This is probably the reason. Dragons are ample 60 tonners and have great speed. The Cataphract is a new chassis, and as such, everyone wants to play it (even those who really aren't that good at it, or just want to play it to master it, and then never play it again)

Same thing will happen when the Stalker comes out, and every chassis thereafter.

[Churzy]

For starters, Dragon has never been an overly popular Mech (in MWO matches, that is!). On the other hand, the Cataphract is very new, so there are still lots of people levelling their variants; even if they won't use it much once they max the chassis. Not to mention that, currently, the 1X variant is one of the Trial Mechs; and that Ilya Muromets, regardless of being legendary, is yet another Cataphract.

In any case, due to their niche nature and their obvious flaws, neither the Dragon nor the Cataphract will be particularly common once the whole thing settles down.

[Mordin Ashe]

Weapon hardpoints. Dragon has lousy hardpoint spread, but on cataphract you can mount some serious weaponry. Also, cataphract will still remain dangerous when you use all availiable tonnage for weapons and almost none for engine. Dragon is useless if slow, but rather weak when fast. With cataphract, you don't have to do many compromises.

[Pygar]

Cataphract is a better frame for stacking lots of guns on, and can have Jump Jets on some builds.

Dragon (what I fly) is much more like a middle weight mech in build and capabilities...it's a good "Jack of all Trades" mech, tough to fly sometimes because of it's lack of specialization. (but sometimes the versatility really helps in battles)

[zverofaust]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 December 2012 - 08:08 AM, said:

70 ton is a Mech Sweet spot tonnage. Good speed, good load out potentual (Archer, Warhammer, Grasshopper etc) really good builds all 70 ton.

Why did you mention the Warhammer, now I'm just depressed. What I wouldn't give for one of those.. I might actually drop money.

Edited by zverofaust, 17 December 2012 - 08:11 AM.

[MustrumRidcully]

I think it is difficult to use well. I am not sure if it's worth overcoming the difficulties, e.g. is it just a barrier to entry you can overcome, or is it something that will always be dragging you down?

I think a big problem is that you don'T have many interesting loadout possibilities right now. There are probably only 2 energy weapons that really viable right now for the Dragon. Medium Lasers or Large Lasers. But the Large LAser require a heavy investment in (Double) Heat Sinks to make good use of any. If you think about it, with a 5 medium laser Cicada or a 7 medium Laser Hunchback you can reach similar or higher speeds, but still maintain the same firepower.

It's speed advantage doesn't seem to quite generate lag shield advantages, so overall, it's lacklustre IMO.

If the weapon balance improves so that more viable energy weapons exist, and the lag shield is removed, speed may become less crucial for defensive purposes but remain important for positioning - and then the Dragon may have more users.
Maybe it will also require an adjustment to match-making, and the Dragon to some extend just shares the same fate as the pre-ECM Commando and the Awesome - they will be paired with much heavier mechs in their respective class, and this will often be a drawback.

[Joseph Mallan]

Cause it was teh first thing I turned my Phract into, a Warhammer-D.

[FrDrake]

Conquest mode might make Dragon more viable as it's the fastest of the heavies.

[MrLiNcH]

FrostPaw, on 17 December 2012 - 08:06 AM, said:

Right arm Everybody now knows you take the teeth out of a dragon by shooting its right arm.

Aren't you thinking of the Centurion? Right arm gone, I still have 2MPL, 2ML and an SRM6... and still going 90kph... I will still ruin your day (and have).

Back on topic, I started with the DRG and love it. Curious to try out the Cataphract (mostly for ballistics as mentioned above) but still filling out all the different roles in my Mechbays.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Make the dragon less of an up-weighted Centurian?

also, dragon looks ugly as sin... I'd much rather pilot the cataphract. And I come from a Kurita background.