249 replies to this topic

[sandu]

When nobody will pay for premium they will put back some form of RnR

[Trauglodyte]

Kraven Kor, on 17 December 2012 - 02:50 PM, said:

In theory, and we could be wrong but I doubt it, kills are now equal to assists.

A kill will give you the 2,500 CBill "Component Destruction" bonus and the 5,000 CBill "Kill" Bonus.

An Assist will just give the 7,500 CBill "Assist" bonus.

So, kill or assist, you should make the same. On paper, a solo kill will net you much more, due to multiple component destruction bonuses, damage bonus, etc. Further, Salvage is likely still the big money maker, so "Kill the meat, save the metal."

Something else to note: someone brought up the question of just running around, slapping all 8 opposing mechs, and then hiding and afking. Remember that while you'll get money for the assists, the bulk of your c-bill gains will come from overall participation which is reflected by your end game rank. So, you could get a bunch of assists and call it a day OR you could keep at it and make 10x the amount that you'd make being a lazy ****** (hrm, wa-nker is somehow a bad word). Also, kills carry more weight in participation value then assists so, again, you'll be making more money going for kills and continuing to fight as opposed to being a slacker.

Edited by Trauglodyte, 17 December 2012 - 04:37 PM.

[FunkyFritter]

PANZERBUNNY, on 17 December 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

You mean makes the new user experience easier?

The gaming industry is in a sad state of pathetic games because games aren't challenging players. So many people want MarioMech Online 3rd Person view mode

Acquiring cbills has never been a challenge, it's a grind. Challenge in multiplayer games comes from facing opponents who have access to every option you have. Reducing the impact of cbill farming will make lead to more even matches, which means more challenges to face.

[Lanessar]

Trauglodyte, on 17 December 2012 - 04:36 PM, said:

Something else to note: someone brought up the question of just running around, slapping all 8 opposing mechs, and then hiding and afking. Remember that while you'll get money for the assists, the bulk of your c-bill gains will come from overall participation which is reflected by your end game rank. So, you could get a bunch of assists and call it a day OR you could keep at it and make 10x the amount that you'd make being a lazy ****** (hrm, wa-nker is somehow a bad word). Also, kills carry more weight in participation value then assists so, again, you'll be making more money going for kills and continuing to fight as opposed to being a slacker.

Sometimes this might occur, but honestly, since the kill gives assist + killl bonus, you are best rewarded for destroying the enemy mechs. Tagging eight mechs and then sitting back for a loss (possible win, down one man might be iffy) as opposed to a possible 8 assists, 8 kills game (16x bonuses)...

Yeah. You get more for component destruction and kills (which results in an assist as well) than sitting on your butt. You might try to leverage that, but I highly suspect that if 3-4 people from a pug try that, they'll lose and get nothing. I've been on the receiving end of 0-8 and it's not fun. Even when I scored hits on several, I got no assist bonus if they didn't get killed.

Edited by Lanessar, 17 December 2012 - 05:06 PM.

[Sifright]

sandu, on 17 December 2012 - 04:07 PM, said:

When nobody will pay for premium they will put back some form of RnR

When every one shells out bank for those mech bays because they can make the money for the mechs with out premium and don't feel like they are being robbed to do it PGI will make way more.

So no that wont happen.

[KuruptU4Fun]

Has anyone come to the realization that getting 25 matches of extra free money, then losing it on that 26th match is a good incentive to get new players at least considering buying premium time? Is that a money grab by PGI? No, it's real world economics, supply and demand...

[Kraven Kor]

Sifright, on 17 December 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

When every one shells out bank for those mech bays because they can make the money for the mechs with out premium and don't feel like they are being robbed to do it PGI will make way more.

So no that wont happen.

We don't really know that, but it is one possibility.

We shall see how it shakes out.

[Trauglodyte]

Lanessar, on 17 December 2012 - 05:05 PM, said:

Sometimes this might occur, but honestly, since the kill gives assist + killl bonus, you are best rewarded for destroying the enemy mechs. Tagging eight mechs and then sitting back for a loss (possible win, down one man might be iffy) as opposed to a possible 8 assists, 8 kills game (16x bonuses)...

Yeah. You get more for component destruction and kills (which results in an assist as well) than sitting on your butt. You might try to leverage that, but I highly suspect that if 3-4 people from a pug try that, they'll lose and get nothing. I've been on the receiving end of 0-8 and it's not fun. Even when I scored hits on several, I got no assist bonus if they didn't get killed.

That's what I'm saying. The new system rewards you for more work. So, while you could tap all 8 and hope for 8 kills and, thusly, 8 assists, you're taking a major chance and actually hampering your team's ability to kill those other 8 mechs and thereby reducing your chances of kill assists. On top of that, the limited amount of damage, spotting, etc that you put forth would put you at the bottom of the rankings and would then reduce your end game cbill tally.

The one thing that REALLY concerns me is how they'll handle the few mechs in game that simply don't have a massive kill potential. The Cicada 3C (4 MGs and a single energy hard point), some of the Dragons, etc all come to mind. With damage being a major indicator of the level of work you're doing, if you can't put out a lot, you're going to end up getting screwed unless they add in other features that pay you.

[KuruptU4Fun]

Trauglodyte, on 17 December 2012 - 05:19 PM, said:

The one thing that REALLY concerns me is how they'll handle the few mechs in game that simply don't have a massive kill potential. The Cicada 3C (4 MGs and a single energy hard point), some of the Dragons, etc all come to mind. With damage being a major indicator of the level of work you're doing, if you can't put out a lot, you're going to end up getting screwed unless they add in other features that pay you.

Which is why certain mech will fair much better in terms of making more money when they play Conquest mode. Run and cap, run and cap...

[Joseph Mallan]

FunkyFritter, on 17 December 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

Acquiring cbills has never been a challenge, it's a grind. Challenge in multiplayer games comes from facing opponents who have access to every option you have. Reducing the impact of cbill farming will make lead to more even matches, which means more challenges to face.

You neven played Mech warrior on TT did you. As a starting MechWarrior in a Merc unit you made around 900 C-bills a month if you were in a affluent unit. The command paid for your R&R and you were kept in fighting trim if it was in the budget. If not... Try again.

[Lanessar]

Trauglodyte, on 17 December 2012 - 05:19 PM, said:

That's what I'm saying. The new system rewards you for more work. So, while you could tap all 8 and hope for 8 kills and, thusly, 8 assists, you're taking a major chance and actually hampering your team's ability to kill those other 8 mechs and thereby reducing your chances of kill assists. On top of that, the limited amount of damage, spotting, etc that you put forth would put you at the bottom of the rankings and would then reduce your end game cbill tally.

The one thing that REALLY concerns me is how they'll handle the few mechs in game that simply don't have a massive kill potential. The Cicada 3C (4 MGs and a single energy hard point), some of the Dragons, etc all come to mind. With damage being a major indicator of the level of work you're doing, if you can't put out a lot, you're going to end up getting screwed unless they add in other features that pay you.

I think you'll find those mechs gravitating toward certain match modes, like Conquest. Honestly, every mech shouldn't be useful in every situation (if you're talking about realism), Hit and run, raiding and harassment, you certainly want a Cicada over an Atlas. I know my Jenner will see more use on Conquest, and I'll certainly buy an ECM Cicada for that mode (should I want to specialize), unless I want a STK or Atlas for take and hold manoeuvrings.

[Like a Sir]

I'm just glad new players will be able to get mechs other then lights, I know ecm lights are a big part of it, but I'm tired of dropping in to occasional pug, and seeing 3-5 light mechs on each tieam, just because it's the first thing they could afford.

[TruePoindexter]

Like a Sir, on 17 December 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

I'm just glad new players will be able to get mechs other then lights, I know ecm lights are a big part of it, but I'm tired of dropping in to occasional pug, and seeing 3-5 light mechs on each tieam, just because it's the first thing they could afford.

Especially lights loaded with poor weaponry. Flamer Commandos are especially... cute.

[Zanathan]

TruePoindexter, on 17 December 2012 - 05:34 PM, said:

Especially lights loaded with poor weaponry. Flamer Commandos are especially... cute.

I don't know about you but those flamers are OP. They lower my fps ... missles too ><

[TruePoindexter]

Zanathan, on 17 December 2012 - 05:47 PM, said:

I don't know about you but those flamers are OP. They lower my fps ... missles too ><

They make my manhood feel small.

[Voidsinger]

I think they're at the point where they need data for CW.

For Community warfare to work, there needs to be financial attachments to each faction. That means they needed proper costings for re-arm and repair. The 75% looophole prevented that. There is nothing to say PGI isn't collecting the data on the actual cost of R&R, and collecting statistics for future use.

With ECM in, the mech usage patterns should stabilise (just C3 & MASC missing from inner sphere tech).

Rules tweaks may alter things, but now is the time that serious planning for CW has to happen at the PGI end.

[Wired]

Almost a perfect patch...but in regards to RnR being removed: So when is 3rd person mode being added?

I kid I kid... But in ALL seriousness, how is this going to fit in with Community Warfare? Now that there is no penalty for running the best, most expensive mechs and gear what is going to happen to balance? 8v8 premades are already there with ECM mechs, and it's not a nice place to be.

[KuruptU4Fun]

Wired, on 17 December 2012 - 06:02 PM, said:

Almost a perfect patch...but in regards to RnR being removed: So when is 3rd person mode being added?

I kid I kid... But in ALL seriousness, how is this going to fit in with Community Warfare? Now that there is no penalty for running the best, most expensive mechs and gear what is going to happen to balance? 8v8 premades are already there with ECM mechs, and it's not a nice place to be.

I believe someone earlier said that most likely this change in economy is a test bed for the changes in economy when CW gets implemented.. I would tend to agree with that.

Edited by KuruptU4Fun, 17 December 2012 - 06:06 PM.

[Wired]

KuruptU4Fun, on 17 December 2012 - 06:05 PM, said:

I believe someone earlier said that most likely this change in economy is a test bed for the changes in economy when CW gets implemented.. I would tend to agree with that.

Is this just an assumption made? Like I said, if they could actually discuss how this will work with CW, it would be nice. It LOOKS like a step backwards towards deathmatch. They HAVE been rather closed lip about CW overall, which makes me wonder about its future.

[KuruptU4Fun]

Wired, on 17 December 2012 - 06:12 PM, said:

Is this just an assumption made? Like I said, if they could actually discuss how this will work with CW, it would be nice. It LOOKS like a step backwards towards deathmatch. They HAVE been rather closed lip about CW overall, which makes me wonder about its future.

In "Ask the Devs - 29" Garths' first post is:

Same as usual, only one request: No Community Warfare questions please. I feel awful that I cannot answer them now and I hate passing them all by. Cheers everyone!

While yes it is an assumption on my part, it's quite likely that new CW information is no the way.