249 replies to this topic

[Hawkwings]

The thing with kill reward vs assist reward is that the person who lands the killshot gets LESS than the guy who just grazed him with a laser. If anything the kill and assist reward should be equal.

[Pando]

Loving the new system design. Can't wait for TUESDAY TUESDAY TUESDAY!

[Chrithu]

Blair, on 17 December 2012 - 10:19 AM, said:

I thought this at first too, but upon further contemplation, it makes sense. It doesn't really add anything to gameplay, it's simply a fee you have to pay after every battle. You got a discount by avoiding damage/combat, and that doesn't really make a lot of sense. There was little incentinve to enter a battle without repairing, and the only benefit to going in without rearming was gaming the system since it bumped you to 75% for free. Without a compelling choice to make, it felt more like a penalty for mixing it up than anything else.

There may be a better way to utilize the RNR system, but what was in wasn't working, and for now, I can see why they'd take it out.

I agree taht the current RnR is not working and having it removed surely is better than keeping it in place while changing the rewards the way they are changing them. Hence I said I hope for a return and not that I don't want it gone.

RnR with a rewritten base reward would have made a nice additional performance reward for example:

If base reward would equal the max possible RnR cost then not getting destroyed would net you extra income and not getting much damaged even more. This in addition with getting destroyed = paying maximum RnR would have made for an improvement over the current system that doesn't need RnR gone and in addition is another performance award.


Also I agree that valueing kill assists higher than the kill is not the most elegant way to encourage focus firing. Doubling the damage bonus for shooting the same mech as a teammate would have achieved the same.

[Joseph Mallan]

Dakkath, on 17 December 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

I know, but you'll still have people trying to steal from someone to get that "extra" coin. It would happen.

So now we will not get as many kills cause the stupid faction will refuse to shoot the kill shot! I do not want more money than the guy who did the deed. I helped, I didn't fell the giant. Name in credits, not in lights.

[StandingInFire]

Quote

• Component Destroyed = 2,500 * how many components you have destroyed
  
• Enemy Kill = 5,000 * how many enemies you have killed
  
• Enemy Kill Assist =7,500 * how many kill assists you got in the match

To kill a mech you destroy 1 component, therefore kill money (5k+2.5k) = assist money (7.5k), which is good cause it's so frustrating when you have a gauss/ppc snipper on your team just camping the kill shots.

[Kraven Kor]

Dakkath, on 17 December 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

Not true, since they all have contributed to getting the assist, they all get rewards.

I just think kill / assist should provide same bonus.

In this setup, if three guys all shot the Atlas, two would get the 7,500 assist bonus... one would only get 5,000 kill bonus.

Just make them the same. Kill, or assist, 7,500 C-Bills.

[Clay Pigeon]

Hobo Dan, on 17 December 2012 - 10:12 AM, said:

Why not just remove the caps in Assault and rename it team deathmatch if you're going to remove any reward for using the cap to win?

Or put in a single cap in the middle of the map, or make the existing caps only unlock after 5 minutes in?

[DeathofSelf]

Dakkath, on 17 December 2012 - 10:24 AM, said:

RNR was imo, useless. It caused way to many problems. People wouldn't repair all the way just to avoid paying. It was a gimmick imo. Eventually they could re-implement it with stricter rules.


Same reward for win/loss/tie force people to move their mech from spawn and contribute to the battle if they want money. It's all in an effort to remove the bots, and encourage playing.

Removal of cap/win/assist is great too as it promotes combat. You still (I think) get more experience for winning so capping still can be a strategy, but now to make the most money, you'll want to engage the enemy, instead of just bypassing them for an easy cap. Again, its encouraging people to play the game, shoot each other, etc. I like.



No.

I agree the way it was implemented was not very good. But, I do think it was an important aspect. 1) running more expensive equipment had consequences. 2) If I came out of the battle mostly intact, I got a reward for doing so by not having a huge repair bill. That being said I realize that my second point is kind of where the trouble happens, people don't want to fight and they run and hide. But I think that issue would start to go away when they implement skilled matchmaking.

Maybe, but win/loss/tie being the same removes the reward for winning, maybe instead of a set number for each they add a multiplier. For example 200% of your final C-Bills for a win 150% tie and 125% loss, that way it is still activity based but there is still a reward for winning.

Removal of the cap reward all but removes the cap itself, we might as well just call it deathmatch. I feel like this came about because of the "cap whiners".

[Pando]

Again, loving the new system looks

[Kraven Kor]

StandingInFire, on 17 December 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

To kill a mech you destroy 1 component, therefore kill money (5k+2.5k) = assist money (7.5k), which is good cause it's so frustrating when you have a gauss/ppc snipper on your team just camping the kill shots.

And if this is the case, disregard my previous comment.

[8CH Trooper]

I think this is a good start, getting rid of RnR paves the way for the implemention of re-spawn.

[Pyrrho]

StandingInFire, on 17 December 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

To kill a mech you destroy 1 component, therefore kill money (5k+2.5k) = assist money (7.5k), which is good cause it's so frustrating when you have a gauss/ppc snipper on your team just camping the kill shots.

I do hope the system scores it this way, though I still think the value for Kill - Assist should at least be equal. This way, the kill is still worth more (because of the bonus component destruction you noted) but no one is really ticked off about not landing the fatal blow.

[Dakkath]

Sifright, on 17 December 2012 - 10:30 AM, said:

you only get assists for mechs you dont explode.

If you get the kill shot you don't get an assist.

Surely that is self evident?

Like I said, probably something I'd like to find out when the new economy changes come. I assume you are right, but I am not 100% certain. =)

[Hawkwings]

StandingInFire, on 17 December 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

To kill a mech you destroy 1 component, therefore kill money (5k+2.5k) = assist money (7.5k), which is good cause it's so frustrating when you have a gauss/ppc snipper on your team just camping the kill shots.

Good point, I retract my argument.

[Joseph Mallan]

wwiiogre, on 17 December 2012 - 10:27 AM, said:

They did not get rid of R n R, they merely did the math and lowered the amount of net cbills you get after a match win/lose so that there is no longer a negative economy. But they lowered how fast some players will make money. You will make money not as fast as before. And new players will be able to buy their own mech much quicker.

All in all a win. Although having a module that speeds up capturing a base, then taking away the bonus for capturing the base makes no sense unless you are going to allow every player that wasted cbills on the capture module a full refund. Or is the new game mode going to utilize the capture module even more than assault mode? Making it worth its cost since it is now useless in assault mode or at least not worth what it was.

Chris

We shall see. I'll give this as fair a shake as I can. I know what I pay for average repairs so I will have to see. I also will have to take into account that I'm not going to get top dog billing most the time, Which I can stand behind only as a game thing. As a soldier I got the same pay as every other equivalent soldier of my rank with exception of Haz Duty pay.

[vettie]

Dakkath, on 17 December 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

This is to prohibit kill stealing...

Not that I disagree with you, I see your point clearly, BUT what is to prohibit me from taking a Commando / jenner / Raven, running the length of the map and shooting every enemy just once? If that any of them get destroyed, i get an assist. However, my team mates stands at the front line and goes toe to toe killing 1 and then getting destroyed and he gets LESS because he actually KILLED one and hit another, where my dumb butt ran around popping a laser on every enemy?

I think the RnR Cost will return as CW makes more of a showing. I think it is an important part of playing the game. Makes you think about your tactics more knowing you have to repair that piece if it gets shot up or off. Conversely, there is no reason NOT to engage if you have no repair cast, in other words, you have nothing to lose by fighting other than getting destroyed.

Also, the base Cap is SOMETIMEs the only way to win (currently). If the last guy goes to hide somewhere shut down or if he is the unfortunate victim of a crash to desktop, some times the game does not recognize him as not being there EVEN if the other team 'kills' his mech, so there should be SOME reward for a cap. Cap is also a valid tactic to pull enemies away from the fight to 'save' their base, allowing your team to re-group and push the fight to them..

All in all, tho, it should be an interesting PATCH, STALKER, New Game MODE, SOME FIXES, LOTS of LOVE, LOL

[Rina Fujimoto]

I am absolutely dumbfounded that people are mad that they removed the cap win and complain that they don't want TDM.

So let me get this straight, you watched the MWO trailer, and thought to yourself "BOY DID YOU SEE THAT RED SQUARE IN THE BACKGROUND? HOT DOG I'D LOVE TO CAP THAT, THIS IS THE GAME FOR ME!", and then get mad when the game gives you a greater incentive to you know...battle in giant mechs? Something the series has always been about? You're really this terrified of direct combat? You really derive this much enjoyment from seeing the victory screen without a single shot? Why are you even playing this game? No, really, why are you playing this game? Did you not read the gameplay description under the "game" tab before downloading? Lets take a look shall we?

"Each team has 8 players and the two teams are pitted in combat in an enclosed battlefield"

Notice how it says, "combat", not "a TACTICAL race to the red square!".

[Aym]

Daekar, on 17 December 2012 - 10:03 AM, said:

Head on over to the Command Chair section and read Bryan's latest thread... looks like the new user experience is going to be much improved, economy-wise. I like the look of the other economy changes too!

I appreciate the 7,000,000+ c-bill bonus, too.

What does everybody think? Looks to me like they're heading the right direction.

Finally, we've been saying every time they put RnR in no matter how fair they try to make it, it always punished certain roles which runs contrary to their goal for role warfare. Cheers!

[MustrumRidcully]

StalaggtIKE, on 17 December 2012 - 10:28 AM, said:

I'm fine with the Capture Win and Assist points removal. Time and time again, I've played in matches where light mechs just rush to enemy base. Ignoring the whole enemy team capping their base and leaving the slower ones to defend. Had that lone Atlas not tried to fight of a whole horde of enemies by himself, they would have lost to a base rush. However he gets no bonus and seemingly died in vain. A better alternative is for PGI to create a base defend bonus instead of removing capture win and assist points. Then you will get something out of defending, instead of a ridiculous repair bill. As for the kill assist bonus, it seems weird to make more points than the actually killer.

Hmm.

How to make this into a solution that incentives smart/optimized play on both sides without forcing everyone to fight at the cap point? Ideally we would want both sides to have interest in intercepting the enemy before it reaches the base. But we also want to reward base defenders?

[Noth]

haruko, on 17 December 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

I am absolutely dumbfounded that people are mad that they removed the cap win and complain that they don't want TDM.

So let me get this straight, you watched the MWO trailer, and thought to yourself "BOY DID YOU SEE THAT RED SQUARE IN THE BACKGROUND? HOT DOG I'D LOVE TO CAP THAT, THIS IS THE GAME FOR ME!", and then get mad when the game gives you a greater incentive to you know...battle in giant mechs? Something the series has always been about? You're really this terrified of direct combat? You really derive this much enjoyment from seeing the victory screen without a single shot? Why are you even playing this game? No, really, why are you playing this game? Did you not read the gameplay description under the "game" tab before downloading? Lets take a look shall we?

"Each team has 8 players and the two teams are pitted in combat in an enclosed battlefield"

Notice how it says, "combat", not "a TACTICAL race to the red square!".

If you would defend the base and not just rush yourself, you would always see combat every single match.