78 replies to this topic

[Pendraco]

This is going to be interesting. Only thing I question is the removal of RNR, one of the main / only strengths of taking an energy heavy build was not having to pay for ammo....

8 million C-Bills will keep me happy for a bit though.......hmm, how much is the Stalker going to cost?

[Karyudo ds]

pjnt, on 17 December 2012 - 11:30 AM, said:

I don't have a problem with them removing RnR. What difference does it make, really? Expensive artemis srm missiles didn't stop us seeing srmCats out there, so what will this change? Nothing, I think. Until we see it implemented, it will be difficult to really know, but on the surface, I don't think it will change even the smallest aspect of the game.

Artemis, Endo, Ferro, DHS, all of the upgrades are affected by this, not simply expensive missiles. Not EVERY mech was supposed to have all of that and the only thing that will keep that from becoming the case now is space. I mean if the number is a generic average then I can run teams of tricked out Atlases with ECM all day long. Apparently they wanted to curb the assault mech arms race but this sort of does the opposite unless you just like light mechs (which some of us already did).

The only problem I ever saw with RNR was the fact that after spending lots of CB on upgrades, you got to spend lots more keeping them and by that point you were still likely to be making what you were before so you basically topped out with diminishing returns right out the gate. At this point in the game any advantage you get only lasts the match you bring it too though so going red on CB's is risk with little reward at all.

[WhiteRabbit]

one thing that's good about the r&r removal is that the game is fairer for those loosing stupid amounts of money due to bugs. Just one example: game starts.....unluckydude1: damn i've got the yellow-screen of annoyance.... get's disected by enemy team while still trying to contribute.... game ends....... unluckydude1: ohhh look i lost 50.000 Cbills, how nice

[Vassago Rain]

Pendraco, on 17 December 2012 - 11:55 AM, said:

This is going to be interesting. Only thing I question is the removal of RNR, one of the main / only strengths of taking an energy heavy build was not having to pay for ammo....

8 million C-Bills will keep me happy for a bit though.......hmm, how much is the Stalker going to cost?

About 7-13 million, depending on the variant. They seem to be following the canon costs pretty closely. I'd put the 'free' money into a special c-bill paintjob instead.

[Purlana]

Joseph Mallan, on 17 December 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

AMMO is F*cking expensive to shoot at your enemy! Just sayin.

So is repairing a totally jacked up Atlas that has been blown to bits...

But we still made money.

Edited by Purlana, 17 December 2012 - 12:07 PM.

[DeaconW]

Ter Ushaka, on 17 December 2012 - 10:31 AM, said:

This is a good thing. I'm pretty sure the RNR change means being killed in a ferro-fiberious mech will mean you no longer lose money.

You SHOULD lose money if you get killed and lose a match with the high end gear. It is called incentive and disincentive and if it is no longer in the game you have to ask yourself if this is really a MW game or just a TDM game with giant robots.

[Purlana]

DeaconW, on 17 December 2012 - 12:02 PM, said:

You SHOULD lose money if you get killed and lose a match with the high end gear. It is called incentive and disincentive and if it is no longer in the game you have to ask yourself if this is really a MW game or just a TDM game with giant robots.

Even if you won without dying, you could lose money.

Edited by Purlana, 17 December 2012 - 12:03 PM.

[PurpleNinja]

JudgeDeathCZ, on 17 December 2012 - 11:20 AM, said:

Ye like some1 boat LRM+Artemis todays....I am pretty sure you think SRM+Artemis

Hey, I still run a LRM boat, and I'm quite succesfull 90% of the time.
It's just a matter of battlefield position and picking the right targets.
An ECM Raven could outmanuever me anytime, but that's accounts for only 10% of the matches.

[Kristov Kerensky]

Vassago Rain, on 17 December 2012 - 12:00 PM, said:

About 7-13 million, depending on the variant. They seem to be following the canon costs pretty closely. I'd put the 'free' money into a special c-bill paintjob instead.

Math isn't your strong point Vassago, or you haven't actually opened the game in a while now, custom cbill paint job will cost less then 1m cbills...Hawken just went Open so what were you playing all this time..ah, I know, Closed Beta Hawken, it does explain a lot.

Not fond of the RnR removal, but I understand that they are having issues with new testers BEING TOLD that the time it takes to get their own Mech is totally stupidly outrageously LONG and it's a boring grind that never ends! These same people have obviously never played another game in their lives, but hey, they know it all! So PGI has made it easier on the new testers coming in, removed the RnR costs, given a bonus to the new player for 25 drops(and the rest of us who've been here a bit get a one time bonus) so they can get into a non-trial Mech even quicker...but they also dropped the amount of cbills you make by a bit more then the RnR costs. But that's fine with me, after all, according to some since I paid money to PGI I'm entitled to more and get what I want(oh gods above and below, if ONLY I got what I wanted in this game) I have LOTS more cbills then anyone who didn't P2W! Of course, the fact that I generally average 100k profit per win and 60k profit per loss after current RnR costs(autoreload/repair since I started in closed beta, and I know what I make because I can do basic math..unlike some). Now I'm looking at making less for a win and making less for a loss, BUT I won't have to pay for RnR! I'm making more...hang on...no, I'm not going to make more, I'm going to make less per drop win or lose.

Huh..how about that...PGI made the LCD happy by making them THINK they'll get more cbills when in reality they'll get less...that's just too funny. Won't bother me really, I've got cbills to burn already, I'll get more tomorrow, and outside of getting a Stalker and seeing if I like it, I honestly have nothing to spend cbills on anymore, I make a few million cbills in a few hours currently, and that's without activating my premium time bonus or using my Founders Atlas or my Yen Lo Wang, making cbills is NOT hard to do in this beta right now, and the whiners aside, we all know it.

AFTER tomorrow, I won't be making a few million cbills in a few hours, but for ME, that's fine, I have millions already and nothing to spend it on. But..how about all those new testers who'll be coming in, getting their 25 drop bonus(it's per drop folks, NOT a one time gift of 8m), what will they do when they realize it's going to take them a week or more to afford that new Mech that runs 9+million cbills and they only make 250k per hour? That, btw, is roughly what someone using Premium makes per win, 160k per loss...that's not per hour but per drop, minus the RnR currently tends to give a 200k/win 100k/loss for Premium(those were my own numbers using high expense Mechs when my Premium time was active, lots of ammo dependant mechs and autoreload/repair on..sometimes down to 175k/win 75k/loss!). Yeah, looks like PGI really is going to help the new testers and the freebs out a TON with the removal of RnR and this new cbill reward system...in the very short term.

[El Penguin]

DeaconW, on 17 December 2012 - 12:02 PM, said:

You SHOULD lose money if you get killed and lose a match with the high end gear. It is called incentive and disincentive and if it is no longer in the game you have to ask yourself if this is really a MW game or just a TDM game with giant robots.

Doesnt Mechwarrior 4 not have this? Is that not a Mechwarrior game?

[Ozric]

Positive changes and a step in the right direction. R&R was not working as intended and had already been bandaged up with the free repair/rearm anyway. Better gone than rubbish. I suspect that it will return again with CW and hopefully be easier to balance.

[Tickdoff Tank]

Penance, on 17 December 2012 - 10:32 AM, said:

but we're also making less per match....BRING ON THE GRINDZ

this will be strange.

We should actually make more mer match now. Atleast is you place in the top 4 or so. The increase to earning based on damage done is nice.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Jason Parker, on 17 December 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

Jesus can't we please keep all that stuff in one thread?

Thank you.

Are moderators in these forums actually allowed to merge threads? If yes. Please oh good lord use it. We all would benefit from a bit more moderation.

Take a look on the bethsoft forums. This place (at least the TES section) is marvelous because you don't have to answer 5 threads on any given topic. And they even lock topics at a certain post count so you don't sift through pages upon pages of ever the same stuff being told.

woo pretend moderators give em hell

[w0rm]

A change for the worse.

You should lose resources if you perform bad in battle.

Edited by w0rm, 17 December 2012 - 01:47 PM.

[UXB]

Kraven Kor, on 17 December 2012 - 10:18 AM, said:

Keep in mind the "average repair costs" are still simulated by the "average NET earnings after repair and rearm.

On the surface of this announcement, I don't like it - I think repair and rearm should be a function of the game. Maybe community warfare will see a return of this mechanic in some fashion.

Just a thought.

When you abstract things too much, it loses flavor. It becomes one big generic mess. It's a sign of AWFUL design. PGI had the chance to produce something great. They still do, but it's slipping away.

Ozric, on 17 December 2012 - 01:00 PM, said:

Positive changes and a step in the right direction. R&R was not working as intended and had already been bandaged up with the free repair/rearm anyway. Better gone than rubbish. I suspect that it will return again with CW and hopefully be easier to balance.

Your dreaming. The CW that we all hope for will NEVER come. What we get will be thin matchmaking system slapped on top of Giant Stompy Robot Deathmatch.

Very disappointing.

[UXB]

Purlana, on 17 December 2012 - 12:03 PM, said:

Even if you won without dying, you could lose money.

Only if you insisted on running all the top end gear. So run that stuff ONLY when the victory is more important than the money. Otherwise, run a build intended to help you make money.

[MadcatX]

w0rm, on 17 December 2012 - 01:26 PM, said:

A change for the worse.

You should loose ressources if you perform bad in battle.

If it was a FFA, I'd agree since you are solely responsible for your defeats. However wins and losses are dependent on the team as a whole.

Although I'm generally not a spelling ****, if you're going to both up the font and put it in bold, at least make sure those huge words are spelled right.

[AlanEsh]

Should have kept repair cost. I don't think the highest tech mechs should be rewarded with more money simply because they do more damage. XL lets you mount more guns and HS so you do more damage in the match, there is your +cash. Well... shouldn't there be a bit of risk involved with that? Shouldn't my standard engine Atlas be cheaper to fix than your -K? At least by a little bit so I am tempted to run something other than the absolute most tech-heavy tweaky build possible?

[Lonestar1771]

I feel like the game just got dumbed down to easy mode.