66 replies to this topic

[Coralld]

Yoseful Mallad, on 18 May 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

here is another one for you... being it has 3 ballistic hardpoints in that section, whats stopping you from putting in 3 AC/2s? Sure less damage against the bigger mech but think of it this way. Those AC/2s are lighter so it still frees up a lot of weight for loads of AC/2 ammo and the AC/2 has even more range on the AC/10. Use the faster firing, longer ranged AC/2s together as the light mech killers and save the 2 to 6 medium or maybe 2 large arm lasers for anything else you may run across?

I thought we were talking about stock configs, yes I am planning on trying to get Large Lasers onto my custom HBK-4H but I would probably go with two AC/5s over three AC/2s, less range and slightly less ammo but they hit twice as hard and takes up less weight. That's assuming I have enough free weight to play with.

Edited by Coralld, 18 May 2012 - 07:25 PM.

[trycksh0t]

I'd stick with the -4G, personally. Yes, the -4P can theororetically hit for double damage, but only if you get all 8 lasers to hit. And they're going to spread damage all over the place. The -4G deals less raw damage, but it's much more precise damage, which I greatly prefer.

[Sassori]

Ugh... more talk of rate of fire. Gods I hope they don't screw the rate of fire up. An AC-2 is not supposed to fire faster than anything else. If it did, it'd do even /less/ than 2 points of damage. The only way an AC-2 is supposed to be scary is if it's on a mech that can keep you from closing range whether from speed, skill, or both.

They aren't ultra long range machine guns.

[Thom Frankfurt]

8100d 5p4tt3r, on 18 May 2012 - 06:23 PM, said:

Granted not all warriors are as accurate as say Kai, Phelan, Vlad, Natasha etc.

Yeah most are hit and miss like Victor...

[Vectoron]

Its kinda a choice between "old faithful" and something that looks good on paper. I think the Swayback will be great if you chain fire the lasors and at the right points alpha strike them. The Hunchback has always been pretty decent because the stopping power of a AC20 is nothing to laugh at. in some cases it can put a mech flat on its back. just the force of the shot alone isnt to be trifled with. However lasors will reload faster than the AC20 and cost no ammo. making them deadly aswell. However the heat build up from an all lasor mech is.... Nasty. so both are good just depends on the pilot imo.

Edited by Vectoron, 18 May 2012 - 09:10 PM.

[Thor77]

Yoseful Mallad, on 18 May 2012 - 07:17 PM, said:

here is another one for you... being it has 3 ballistic hardpoints in that section, whats stopping you from putting in 3 AC/2s? Sure less damage against the bigger mech but think of it this way. Those AC/2s are lighter so it still frees up a lot of weight for loads of AC/2 ammo and the AC/2 has even more range on the AC/10. Use the faster firing, longer ranged AC/2s together as the light mech killers and save the 2 to 6 medium or maybe 2 large arm lasers for anything else you may run across?

AC2 is 6 tons. AC20 is 14 tons. http://www.sarna.net...Equipment_Lists

So 3 AC2 at 6 tons each is 18 tons. One AC20 is 14 tons. That means you need to free up an additional 4 tons. I think the stock Hunchback had 2 tons of ammo, so maybe you can get by with one ton of ammo to feed your 3 ac2 (they do get a lot more shots per ton), pull out the med lasers, and scrape a ton off somewhere else (armor, heat sink, small laser and 1/2 ton armor). Either way it looks like a losing bet.

[Arbhall Sommers]

Love the idea of a swayback, especially if i can assign them to controls myself, so i can fire them in groups to keep my heat under control as suggested above. It could work like MW3 (The best game in the series) and that worked great.
I think i might just find a way to get me one after launch. I would pay 10-15 bucks for a variant like that.
Especially if it came with a Tron inspired paintjob.

[Pvt Dancer]

I will point out the original Swayback was a AC 10 instead of a AC 20, but then the later on go to say that any Hunchback that removes the AC 20 is called a Swayback because it is turned into pretty much a different mech.

Here is what I know... THe AC 20 does a full 20pts of damage to a single location, but there is no damage overflow, as of the Dev Twitter Chat Thursday. So this means if you hit a Jenner in the Arm and he has 6pts of armor and 4 Internals, that extra 10pts of damage is lost.

The damage on Lasers right now is DoT, apparently, (Or so I am told, I don't remember reading it) but it is suppose to take 1.5-3 seconds of time to inflict full 5pts of damage for a medium laser.

Someone has also figured (non-confirmed) that armor values are apparently doubled. This is from the videos and other screen shots showing the mech lab and the straight up armor bar on the left hand side with a slide scale. They noted the total armor value was really high (in the 300s) when the max armor on a Cat was like 172pts and a Hunch is like 136pts. You double it and it is really close to the amounts listed.

Someone has also noted (non-confirmed) that ammo values appeared to be doubled, so a single ton of AC 20 ammo is 10 shots instead of 5.

This means, a Atlas with 47pts of armor is actually 94pts of armor CT front, with 17pts CT Rear turning into 32pts of armor. So with no damage overflow, you would have to shoot a Atlas 5 times in the CT just to get rid of the armor and then shoot it 1-2 more times to destroy it (31 IS... unknown if this is doubled). Since there is no damage transfer or overflow, the AC 20 will dig out big chunks of armor but is a dog against light mechs.

Right now, I think the Swayback with 8 medium lasers might be the better mech, due to how damage overflow and double armor. Your going to need to do 30-40pts of damage to a location with a couple of hits to bring down a medium, much less a heavy or assault.

The best role for a Hunchback/Swayback is as a support mech, as he simply does not have the staying power anymore to be a threat to larger mechs but is to slow to deal with most other mediums or lights.

[UncleKulikov]

I'm torn. Really torn. The Swayback has more damage output and flexibility for customizing, but energy weapons don't do it for me nearly as much as Autocannons. I might just do the swayback for the Razorback, 2 large lasers, 4 medium lasers, and 2 small lasers for all ranges of combat.

Arbhall Sommers, on 18 May 2012 - 09:29 PM, said:

Especially if it came with a Tron inspired paintjob.

Edited by UncleKulikov, 18 May 2012 - 10:16 PM.

[HellJumper]

i will try to keep it simple..

If you are good at aiming while being static/moving than its the AC-2 variant... but if you are more of a gunslinger, missing a lot then the swayback version

thats my opinion and i am a noob at knowing mech stuff

[Redshift2k5]

The Swayback(six m.laser in place of the AC/20) is most certainly in the game. You'll have to trade concetrated damage to one location vs longevity, those medium lasers won't deal all their damage to one precise spot, but you'll never run out of shots! The all-energy version also has no worries about ammo ecplosions, but will have to manage heat more closely.

Fro those doubting the DoT effect of lasers, please go watch some of the recent videos. The laser blast certainly is much shorter than 1.5-3 seconds, but it is long enough to drag over the enemy's armor, spreading your damage over a alrger area and possibly across multiple sections. Check 1:20 for some medium lasers being fired(then go watch all the other breakdowns!)



I personally would prefer the mixed build with an AC/20 and medium lasers, but both will have their time and place in a match. 2 large las/2 medium las/2 small las sounds likefun too, though!

[Steel Talon]

15-20 AC/20 shots is enough for small battles u can see in videous, unless u like to demolish buildings
Bigger gamemodes will get some ammo refil feature so NP

[Nik Van Rhijn]

Once DHS are available then the energy versions become much more viable. It does seem from the videos that heat is more important in MWO. It climbs quickly and seems to dissipate more slowly. There is always the other alternative, which is replace the AC20 with a Gauss Rifle

[Redshift2k5]

A gauss rifle hunchback, with medium lasers for self defense, will be a dangerous target to approach.(the extended range gives him a lot more time to sink gauss slugs into you if you try to approach, and if you don't approach he still has DPS at long ranges) Tread carefully!

[Joe Mallad]

Redshift2k5, on 19 May 2012 - 04:30 AM, said:

A gauss rifle hunchback, with medium lasers for self defense, will be a dangerous target to approach.(the extended range gives him a lot more time to sink gauss slugs into you if you try to approach, and if you don't approach he still has DPS at long ranges) Tread carefully!

Could not agree more.

[GrizzlyViking]

4P easy. 4P = more damage, unlimited shots, potential overheating vs. less damage, potential for ammo shortage, potential for ammo explosions. Overheating can be controlled, ammo explosions, not so much. 4P is the easy choice.

[Joe Mallad]

Redshift2k5, on 19 May 2012 - 04:09 AM, said:

The Swayback(six m.laser in place of the AC/20) is most certainly in the game. You'll have to trade concetrated damage to one location vs longevity, those medium lasers won't deal all their damage to one precise spot, but you'll never run out of shots! The all-energy version also has no worries about ammo ecplosions, but will have to manage heat more closely.

Fro those doubting the DoT effect of lasers, please go watch some of the recent videos. The laser blast certainly is much shorter than 1.5-3 seconds, but it is long enough to drag over the enemy's armor, spreading your damage over a alrger area and possibly across multiple sections. Check 1:20 for some medium lasers being fired(then go watch all the other breakdowns!)



I personally would prefer the mixed build with an AC/20 and medium lasers, but both will have their time and place in a match. 2 large las/2 medium las/2 small las sounds likefun too, though!

I must not be looking hard enough lol because I'm not seeing the 6 medium laser patern of the swayback in that vid. Or it could be that I can't see it because I'm viewing on my phone lol. Anyway... The ammo being doubled looks like it could deffinetly be confirmed now too. That atlas in that vid has the ac/20 and he starts off with 10 rounds to start. So one ton of ac/20 ammo is normaly 5 rounds. Either it has been doubled or it's just that he has 2 tons worth there at 5 rounds each.

[Kudzu]

trycksh0t, on 18 May 2012 - 07:28 PM, said:

I'd stick with the -4G, personally. Yes, the -4P can theororetically hit for double damage, but only if you get all 8 lasers to hit. And they're going to spread damage all over the place. The -4G deals less raw damage, but it's much more precise damage, which I greatly prefer.

After counting in the 4G's own two medium lasers and small laser it's really only 7 more points of damage.

[ShootRange]

Yoseful Mallad, on 18 May 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

OK... I can jump on that bandwagon of it being confirmed but can you really determine that the mech in the back is the Swayback vesrion? Not saying your lying, just asking how you can tell? Is it visibly clear that the AC is not there and the chest has the 6 lasers in it?

Turn the video to 1080p, full screen it, and you shall see

[Arikiel]

1 AC/20 and 2 Medium Lasers + You take a critical hit to your AC/20 = Aaaaargh! *&#*$(@!

8 Medium Lasers + You take a critical hit to a Medium Laser = Oh well. That's alright.