161 replies to this topic

[Strum Wealh]

General Taskeen, on 16 February 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

Correct, mostly. The rate of fire (or cool down) of those regular pulse in MWLL are a lot faster than MWO's even though they function in a somewhat similar fashion between both games (MWO after all has mostly borrowed from MWLL in some aspects). Mainly they wanted to differentiate all the laser types. "Realistically" speaking, if there is such a thing in BT, the way MWLL did X-Pulse lasers are more representative of how all pulse lasers function (the "X" is just an upgrade to increase the range for way more heat).

Not entirely true; some real-world "pulsed operation" laser systems are operated as both MWO and MWLL Pulse Lasers are in that they are made to be operated as a burst of pulses, followed by a cooldown period (usually due to power requirement or heat generation concerns; there is an interesting and related story here).

Also: by the same token, an alternate "realistic" representation of non-pulsed BT lasers would be as a continuously-running "continuous wave operation" laser systems that fires a solid beam for as long as the trigger is held (much like the "Large Continuous Beam Laser" that MekTek added to MW4:Mercs).

As others have noted, keeping "damage inflicted" in-check if the continuous-fire versions were to be employed would necessarily require that each "tick" of laser fire would execute potentially-insignificant (specifically, the quotient of "desired damage per unit time" and "ticks per unit time").
That is, a continuous-fire Pulse Laser repeating at a realistic rate (~30 pulses per second, based on the 10-kW pulse laser used for certain laser propulsion experiments conducted in the 1990s (source)) that was to have a damage output of 2.500 DPS (listed average DPS of a Large Pulse Laser as of 12/30/12 (source)), we'd be looking at a damage rate of 0.083 units of damage per pulse (only twice that of the oft-maligned Machine Gun); reducing the firing rate to ~10 pulses per second would result in a damage rate of 0.250 units of damage per pulse (as opposed to dealing its full 7 units of damage in a 1.00-second burst).
Likewise, a continuous fire non-pulsed laser with a desired DPS of 2.120 (listed average DPS of an ER Large Laser, as of 12/30/12) and a "repetition rate" of 10 "ticks" per second would result in a damage rate of 0.212 units of damage per "tick" (as opposed to dealing its full 9 units of damage in a 0.75-second burn).

Such a change would make either (or both) classes of laser substantially less effective with regard to concentrating damage in any given location - both a positive point (as reducing (but not quite wholly eliminating) the ability to concentrate damage from large clusters of lasers was one of the goals behind the current laser design, and why (among other things) laser damage is not "front-loaded") and a negative one (especially for the larger models, which could/would lose all of what sniping capability they would have had, and would defeat the point of things like the shorter burn time for the ERLL).

In both cases, it is (IMO) arguably better for gameplay (and arguably more BattleTech-esque, to boot) to retain the "burn/burst and cool" effect for both laser types than to convert either (or both) to continuous-fire modes.

[focuspark]

Donas, on 16 February 2013 - 07:27 AM, said:

Incorrect. Another way to do it is to make them do their damage over a shorter period of time than the standard Laser, thus making it easier to track targets and put all the damage where you want it. Which.... They currently do. Pulse lasers do their max damage in fewer 'ticks' than standard lasers, so they concentrate more damage on one spot, as opposed to sweeping across the full torso of a mech. Also, while not a game mechanic per se, they are easier to use for higher ping players that Standard lasers, so its not just purely tracking skill.

now... I DO like and support the idea of an energy based machine gun. But the fix you are describing here is exactly the opposite of what pulse lasers currently do, and fills exactly the opposite nich. (short duration:higher Dam - Long duration:lower dam)

+1 on Energy based machine gun
-1 on eliminating Pulse lasers as they are to do it.

I dunno... I have a great connection to the server, so maybe I'm not see what you're seeing but MG is much easier to hit a light with at close range than an auto-cannon (even AC/2) because you get some sweep with it (ignoring the MG's inability to actually do damage here). It's for this same reason that lasers are generally the weapon of choice when dealing with fast lights when you don't have SSRM.

[focuspark]

Strum Wealh, on 16 February 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

As others have noted, keeping "damage inflicted" in-check if the continuous-fire versions were to be employed would necessarily require that each "tick" of laser fire would execute potentially-insignificant (specifically, the quotient of "desired damage per unit time" and "ticks per unit time").
That is, a continuous-fire Pulse Laser repeating at a realistic rate (~30 pulses per second, based on the 10-kW pulse laser used for certain laser propulsion experiments conducted in the 1990s (source)) that was to have a damage output of 2.500 DPS (listed average DPS of a Large Pulse Laser as of 12/30/12 (source)), we'd be looking at a damage rate of 0.083 units of damage per pulse (only twice that of the oft-maligned Machine Gun); reducing the firing rate to ~10 pulses per second would result in a damage rate of 0.250 units of damage per pulse (as opposed to dealing its full 7 units of damage in a 1.00-second burst).
Likewise, a continuous fire non-pulsed laser with a desired DPS of 2.120 (listed average DPS of an ER Large Laser, as of 12/30/12) and a "repetition rate" of 10 "ticks" per second would result in a damage rate of 0.212 units of damage per "tick" (as opposed to dealing its full 9 units of damage in a 0.75-second burn).

From what I can tell, MW:O ticks 10 times per second. Lasers fire 10 small bits of damage, each 10% of the total. Machine guns fire 10 rounds per second, etc. Even that, my proposed Pulse Laser change would make them inflict 10 bits of damage each second.

AND, you're right standard lasers would be a better front-loaded weapon than pulse lasers with my suggestion, but pulse lasers would do more damage over time. This add variety and make the weapon more "interesting", per the title of the thread.

[MossPigglet]

I liked the older pulse lasers from mechwarrior 4. Those actually looked like pulse lasers because they were broken up from a single sustained laser to 3 bullet bursts.
I would also like to see a more epic laser effects when firing a large laser similar to mech warrior 4. Like my thread where I better explain what I mean. http://mwomercs.com/...e-epic-effects/

[Beeman]

Pretty sure I saw a couple people suggesting this a few months back. At least once, anyways.

I kinda thought they'd have worked like that anyways, 'cause I heard that's how they work in the lore. Granted, I pretty much know nothing when it comes to BattleTech, so don't quote me on that.

I mean, they're fine as they are, but it'd be kinda cool to be able to just shoot them like machine guns.

[blinkin]

Beeman, on 17 February 2013 - 02:35 AM, said:

I mean, they're fine as they are, but it'd be kinda cool to be able to just shoot them like machine guns.

like i said before. they are fine like they are because they are almost identical to standard lasers. that makes them boring.

[Strum Wealh]

Beeman, on 17 February 2013 - 02:35 AM, said:

Pretty sure I saw a couple people suggesting this a few months back. At least once, anyways.

I kinda thought they'd have worked like that anyways, 'cause I heard that's how they work in the lore. Granted, I pretty much know nothing when it comes to BattleTech, so don't quote me on that.

I mean, they're fine as they are, but it'd be kinda cool to be able to just shoot them like machine guns.

As it happens, I had compiled a list of quotations last March, in regard to the laser color discussion.

Strum Wealh, on 12 March 2012 - 03:15 PM, said:

"As Aris fired off his own lasers, ruby and emerald darts scored against his left arm and leg. Nearly a full ton of armor was burned away, leaving his left arm especially vulnerable but still without a breach.
The enemy Quickdraw was not so well-favored. The scarlet beam of Aris’ large pulse laser struck into its left side, already weakened by his medium lasers a moment before."
(From Binding Force by Loren L. Coleman)

"A lance of Lightning hovercraft made swift runs past a damaged Wolfhound, their pulse lasers spitting a flurry of emerald darts into the BattleMech's flank and finally severing one leg at mid-femur."
(from Storms of Fate by Loren L. Coleman)

"The Night Gyr's medium lasers hit with their ruby beams even as the Shootist fired its weapons."
(from Prince of Havoc by Michael A. Stackpole)

"It fired two large lasers; a large pulse laser and the medium pulse laser mounted in its right arm. The large lasers cored armor on the 'Mech's right arm and left flank. Fiery green lances from the large pulse laser mounted in the Black Knight's chest nibbled away at more of the left flank armor. The smaller pulse laser shot its ruby shafts through the left flank, burning away the last of the armor and starting on the Turkina's frame."
(from Prince of Havoc by Michael A. Stackpole)

"One of the large lasers sent out a stuttering barrage of green needles that flayed the last of the armor off the Grim Reaper's right arm and fused the shoulder joint. The other one laced more fire into the naked right leg, picking away at the muscles and skeleton, leaving it a tattered wreck. One of the two large lasers missed completely, but the other took the right arm clean off. One of the medium pulse lasers sent a ruby hail that devoured the Grim Reaper's right leg, while the other one chewed through more of the midline structural support members."
(from Prince of Havoc by Michael A. Stackpole)

"Then three of the Pillager's four medium lasers speared the Clan 'Mech with ruby shafts."
(from Prince of Havoc by Michael A. Stackpole)

"His medium laser poured its emerald beams into Victor’s wounds, but scored no critical hits."
(from Patriots and Tyrants by Loren L. Coleman)

"Then, the Prometheus looked right into the rear camera, squaring off as it levered both arms forward and sprayed out twin ruby lances. One of the large lasers speared up, flooding the camera, and Tancred was slammed forward."
(from Patriots and Tyrants by Loren L. Coleman)

"He looked back to the car just in time to see sapphire energy from Treyhang's medium lasers slice into it, easily coring through the unarmored vehicle, which erupted into a fireball."
(from The Killing Fields by Loren L. Coleman)

"An emerald beam speared out from her torso-mounted large laser, catching the Stealth in the left flank and carving away half its armored protection."
(from Flashpoint by Loren L. Coleman)

"Hall drew a deep breath and stepped past the growing blaze.
He let loose with the Ultra-20 Autocannon mounted just below his right shoulder, another flight of Streak missiles from his left, and a sizzling ruby beam from the torso-mounted laser."
(from BattleTech Quick-Start Rules)

"Hall raised both hands and poured eight beams of emerald fire into the Sunder’s back, quickly melting through what was left of the armor and the reactor shielding below."
(from BattleTech Quick-Start Rules)

"Mashing down on both thumb buttons as well as his right-hand trigger, Victor lashed out with the Striker's three main weapons. The sapphire beam of his large laser cut into the Caesar's left arm, sloughing away a half-ton of armor."
(from Illusions of Victory by Loren L. Coleman)

So, so far we've got:

Large Lasers: "sapphire" (blue)
Large Pulse Lasers: "scarlet" (red), "firey green", "green"
ER Large Laser: "ruby" (red)
ER Medium Laser: "sapphire" (blue)
Medium Lasers: "ruby" (red)
Medium Pulse Lasers: "emerald" (green), "ruby" (red)

Canonically, red seems to be the most common color across different weapon types, followed by green, and finally blue.
Though, the above references (all located through Google) demonstrate that there is, traditionally, variation between weapon types.

That being said, the energy of a photon is E = h*v (where "h" is the Planck Constant and "v" is the frequency) and v = c/λ (where "c" is the speed of light and "λ" is the wavelength), so E = (h*c)/λ.
h = 1.05457172647×10^(−34) Joule-seconds (J*s)
c = 299,792,458 meters per second (m/s)
λ = (450x10^(-9) to 475x10^(-9) meters for blue light), (495x10^(-9) to 570x10^(-9) meters for green light), and (620x10^(-9) to 750x10^(-9) meters for red light)

As energy and wavelength are inversely proportional (the former increases as the latter decreases), more powerful (large) lasers should, IMO, be blueish while less powerful (small) lasers are red and medium lasers are somewhere in the middle-ground (e.g. green).

-----

My proposal for MWO laser colors:

Large Laser: blue
Medium Laser: green
Small Laser: red

ER Large Laser: blue
ER Medium Laser: green
ER Small Laser: red
ER Micro Laser: red

Large Pulse Laser: blue
Medium Pulse Laser: green
Small Pulse Laser: red

ER Large Pulse Laser: blue
ER Medium Pulse Laser: green
ER Small Pulse Laser: red
ER Micro Pulse Laser: red

Large Heavy Laser: blue
Medium Heavy Laser: green
Small Heavy Laser: red

Improved Large Heavy Laser: blue
Improved Medium Heavy Laser: green
Improved Small Heavy Laser: red

Large Chemical Laser: blue
Medium Chemical Laser: green
Small Chemical Laser: red

Variable-speed Large Pulse Laser: blue
Variable-speed Medium Pulse Laser: green
Variable-speed Small Pulse Laser: red

Binary Laser Cannon: blue
Bombast Laser: variable (red-to-blue, depending on charge)

LAMS: red
TAG: red
All Sub-Capital/Capital/Naval Lasers: violet

Your thoughts?

In general, laser fire tends to be described as jewel-colored "beams", "darts", "shafts", "needles", "lances", and other like terms.
Pulse Laser fire seems to be generally described as "a flurry", "a hail" (as in "a collection of objects, esp bullets, spears, etc., directed at someone with violent force"), or "a stuttering barrage" (among other like terms) of laser fire.

The strobing/"burst of beams" effect used by both MWO and MWLL fits the canon descriptions well - and certainly fits both canon and game better than the "sub-lightspeed energy-bullet" effect used in MW2, MW4, and things like Star Wars.

-----

Also, because I somehow managed to leave them out of my original list:
Large X-Pulse Laser: blue
Medium X-Pulse Laser: green
Small X-Pulse Laser: red

[Beeman]

If it's consistently described as launching glowing darts at someone, wouldn't that fit the silly energy bullet method more?

But I don't think that's the primary concern of the thread, I think people just want to hold them down and fire continuously. I mean, the beams look fine as they are now, I personally just want a bit more control over them.

Not that I hate how they are now, a timed pulse per click. Just doesn't quite fit with expectations.

[General Taskeen]

Strum Wealh, on 16 February 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

Not entirely true; some real-world "pulsed operation" laser systems are operated as both MWO and MWLL Pulse Lasers are in that they are made to be operated as a burst of pulses, followed by a cooldown period (usually due to power requirement or heat generation concerns; there is an interesting and related story here).

Also: by the same token, an alternate "realistic" representation of non-pulsed BT lasers would be as a continuously-running "continuous wave operation" laser systems that fires a solid beam for as long as the trigger is held (much like the "Large Continuous Beam Laser" that MekTek added to MW4:Mercs).

As others have noted, keeping "damage inflicted" in-check if the continuous-fire versions were to be employed would necessarily require that each "tick" of laser fire would execute potentially-insignificant (specifically, the quotient of "desired damage per unit time" and "ticks per unit time").
That is, a continuous-fire Pulse Laser repeating at a realistic rate (~30 pulses per second, based on the 10-kW pulse laser used for certain laser propulsion experiments conducted in the 1990s (source)) that was to have a damage output of 2.500 DPS (listed average DPS of a Large Pulse Laser as of 12/30/12 (source)), we'd be looking at a damage rate of 0.083 units of damage per pulse (only twice that of the oft-maligned Machine Gun); reducing the firing rate to ~10 pulses per second would result in a damage rate of 0.250 units of damage per pulse (as opposed to dealing its full 7 units of damage in a 1.00-second burst).
Likewise, a continuous fire non-pulsed laser with a desired DPS of 2.120 (listed average DPS of an ER Large Laser, as of 12/30/12) and a "repetition rate" of 10 "ticks" per second would result in a damage rate of 0.212 units of damage per "tick" (as opposed to dealing its full 9 units of damage in a 0.75-second burn).

Such a change would make either (or both) classes of laser substantially less effective with regard to concentrating damage in any given location - both a positive point (as reducing (but not quite wholly eliminating) the ability to concentrate damage from large clusters of lasers was one of the goals behind the current laser design, and why (among other things) laser damage is not "front-loaded") and a negative one (especially for the larger models, which could/would lose all of what sniping capability they would have had, and would defeat the point of things like the shorter burn time for the ERLL).

In both cases, it is (IMO) arguably better for gameplay (and arguably more BattleTech-esque, to boot) to retain the "burn/burst and cool" effect for both laser types than to convert either (or both) to continuous-fire modes.

The real world doesn't apply to Battle Teching.

Not even sure what you are saying TBH. I've play MW:LL and MWO, the regular pulse lasers are programmed similar except MW:LL's regular pulse lasers fire a bit faster, making their use worthwhile.

You are assuming too much about DPS without thinking outside the TT-Box, like MW:LL does.

Edited by General Taskeen, 17 February 2013 - 10:58 AM.

[Strum Wealh]

General Taskeen, on 17 February 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

The real world doesn't apply to Battle Teching.

Ahem...

General Taskeen, on 16 February 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

Correct, mostly. The rate of fire (or cool down) of those regular pulse in MWLL are a lot faster than MWO's even though they function in a somewhat similar fashion between both games (MWO after all has mostly borrowed from MWLL in some aspects). Mainly they wanted to differentiate all the laser types. "Realistically" speaking, if there is such a thing in BT, the way MWLL did X-Pulse lasers are more representative of how all pulse lasers function (the "X" is just an upgrade to increase the range for way more heat).

Appeals to reality, realism, and realistic expectations - in spite of caveats intended to obscure their nature as such - may be fairly met with the same.

General Taskeen, on 17 February 2013 - 10:57 AM, said:

Not even sure what you are saying TBH. I've play MW:LL and MWO, the regular pulse lasers are programmed similar except MW:LL's regular pulse lasers fire a bit faster, making their use worthwhile.

You are assuming too much about DPS without thinking outside the TT-Box, like MW:LL does.

Spark's suggestion - that is, to change the firing mechanic of Pulse Lasers from a "burst and cool" model to a "continuous fire" model - is neither the only "realistic" way of depicting pulsed operation lasers (and, given how BattleTech tech works, would likely not even be the preferred way of doing it in-universe) nor something that can take place in a relative vacuum (as both average DPS and average HPS include the cooldown period in their calculations; either damage and heat per pulse would have to be substantially reduced to keep the average DPS and HPS constant (and have people would whine about its lack of stopping power and how they have to stay exposed to impart significant levels of damage), or per-pulse DPS and HPS are kept constant and the weapon becomes substantially hotter and more powerful (and people would whine about how it's "overpowered" based on average DPS or "useless because its too hot"), or some attempt at a middle-ground is made (which really just had the latter effect, albeit to a lesser degree and with the same amount and degree of whining)).

The current implementation of Pulse Lasers is arguably just as "realistic" (if not moreso, considering the likely power requirements for an anti-'Mech laser weapon - well into the low-to-mid gigawatt range of input power to produce a megawatt-level beam or set of pulses) and arguably strikes a reasonable cost/benefit equilibrium (because too many people seemingly misuse and/or outright abuse the word "balance").

Moreover: given that the Devs would likely have examined and considered both conditions (especially since MWLL provides working examples of both conditions in 'Mech-on-'Mech combat) and chose the current implementation, it would be incumbent on Spark to show an actually compelling set of reasons for changing it - that is, for taking the time and making the effort to both change and re-work its cost/benefit equilibrium - beyond the claimed aesthetic "boredom", yes?

[focuspark]

... i love you guys This discussion rocks an no trolls (throws salt over shoulder)!

Anyways, mostly looking to make Pulse Lasers different from Standard Lasers to make the game more interesting and varied. Right now Pulse Lasers are just slightly more damaging, heavier, hotter standard lasers... boring.

[Stringburka]

Just a random idea that might be slightly off-topic but that is not the standard laser approach and not the continuous beam approach:

What if pulse lasers did damage on an amount of pulses that could be controlled during the cooldown?
So when you first shoot, it fires a pulse and starts the cooldown, then you can shoot again up to X times during the cooldown - sort of like the UAC without the risk of jamming.


The SPL could have two pulses dealing 1.5 damage each, so shot like an UAC in double fire but with no jamming risk, the MPL could have three pulses of 2 damage each and the LPL could have four pulses of 2.5 damage each. The damage would not be over time, but holding the button would release the extra pulses .2 seconds apart (long enough to let you release, I think, but maybe it should be slower so people with less quick fingers can use it. Heat would be caused on the individual pulse.

So if you hold it, you'd have the same damage as now dealt over .2/.4/.6 seconds, but if you say couldn't fire for the whole time you might release to only use the first or 2 first pulses to cause less heat.

Just an idea.

[Donas]

focuspark, on 16 February 2013 - 08:24 PM, said:

I dunno... I have a great connection to the server, so maybe I'm not see what you're seeing but MG is much easier to hit a light with at close range than an auto-cannon (even AC/2) because you get some sweep with it (ignoring the MG's inability to actually do damage here). It's for this same reason that lasers are generally the weapon of choice when dealing with fast lights when you don't have SSRM.

Yep, exactly the point. When I had a really high ping, standard lasers were useless. There wasnt anyway to keep them on target unless both may target and I were standing dead still. Pulse lasers made that much easier since they do their damage over a shorter time. Perhaps they should further reduce the firing duration so that its more noticable, since what they do is more damage over a shorter duration, exactly the opposite of what a laser machine-gun roll would fill.

Now that my ping is down around 30? shooting things with standard lasers is easy, even though I still use PLAS because I understand the advantage the mechanic has over standard las. I dont run all-laser builds because I'm horrific at managing heat, even with regular lasers, I use them as a supplemental to my ballistics so the heat is no big deal.

[blinkin]

Donas, on 18 February 2013 - 07:24 AM, said:

Yep, exactly the point. When I had a really high ping, standard lasers were useless. There wasnt anyway to keep them on target unless both may target and I were standing dead still. Pulse lasers made that much easier since they do their damage over a shorter time. Perhaps they should further reduce the firing duration so that its more noticable, since what they do is more damage over a shorter duration, exactly the opposite of what a laser machine-gun roll would fill.

Now that my ping is down around 30? shooting things with standard lasers is easy, even though I still use PLAS because I understand the advantage the mechanic has over standard las. I dont run all-laser builds because I'm horrific at managing heat, even with regular lasers, I use them as a supplemental to my ballistics so the heat is no big deal.

this is completely counter to all of my experiences when i was fighting lag shielded mechs. i wanted fire time extended as much as possible because i was trying to deal damage to targets that weren't visually represented properly. a single shot or short burst would likely miss where an extended shot from lasers could be swept across the screen as a sort of low grade radar.

when i am suffering lag issues myself weapons with instant damage almost always miss, but lasers can at least be reaimed during the shot because of the duration.

[focuspark]

blinkin, on 18 February 2013 - 06:19 PM, said:

this is completely counter to all of my experiences when i was fighting lag shielded mechs. i wanted fire time extended as much as possible because i was trying to deal damage to targets that weren't visually represented properly. a single shot or short burst would likely miss where an extended shot from lasers could be swept across the screen as a sort of low grade radar.

when i am suffering lag issues myself weapons with instant damage almost always miss, but lasers can at least be reaimed during the shot because of the duration.

^^ This.

When experiencing massive lag you want to spread the beam as much as possible. Tight focused shots generally miss as you have no idea where to send them. I do not think that Donas was experiencing lag.

[Rawrshuga]

Yeah, it might be nice to see, if the netcode can support it. There's already a heavily load on it with each individual missile being calculated. Having fully automatic pulse lasers might just be too much to handle. There's also performance issues in terms of end user ability to handle the graphics.

If all that falls into place though, I'd love to at least test this out.

[focuspark]

Rawrshuga, on 19 February 2013 - 12:09 AM, said:

Yeah, it might be nice to see, if the netcode can support it. There's already a heavily load on it with each individual missile being calculated. Having fully automatic pulse lasers might just be too much to handle. There's also performance issues in terms of end user ability to handle the graphics.

If all that falls into place though, I'd love to at least test this out.

We're not discussing any art changes here. Keep the same art and audio, they both are great. There should be minimal if any changes to the netcode and/or server load. As a fairly seasoned software engineer, I'm not just talking out my ***. I actually thought about these issues before I made the suggestion :-)

[blinkin]

focuspark, on 19 February 2013 - 12:35 AM, said:

We're not discussing any art changes here. Keep the same art and audio, they both are great. There should be minimal if any changes to the netcode and/or server load. As a fairly seasoned software engineer, I'm not just talking out my ***. I actually thought about these issues before I made the suggestion :-)

it should not take very much more than the targetting system does. hit scan weapons take very little processing compared to most things even if they are constantly run.

[Rawrshuga]

focuspark, on 19 February 2013 - 12:35 AM, said:

We're not discussing any art changes here. Keep the same art and audio, they both are great. There should be minimal if any changes to the netcode and/or server load. As a fairly seasoned software engineer, I'm not just talking out my ***. I actually thought about these issues before I made the suggestion :-)

In which case it would be nice to at least try out. It might end up being OP, or maybe even being redundant, because you now have yet another DoT reliant weapon (pulses at present have a shorter DoT period for greater damage, but the same recycle rate) but hey, maybe the constant fire would be the benefit--like having that TT -2 to hit. Hard to say without actual field testing. Always imagined pulse lasers as laser machineguns myself, so I'm totally on board with your idea.

Regarding the graphics load though. Hey, there's no art or audio difference between 1 LRM missile and 100 LRM missiles. But there is this thing where I have no problems when an LRM 5 fires. But when a multitude of missile boats put 200+ missiles in the air, my game almost freezes and my audio gets super glitchy.

[focuspark]

Rawrshuga, on 19 February 2013 - 01:04 AM, said:

In which case it would be nice to at least try out. It might end up being OP, or maybe even being redundant, because you now have yet another DoT reliant weapon (pulses at present have a shorter DoT period for greater damage, but the same recycle rate) but hey, maybe the constant fire would be the benefit--like having that TT -2 to hit. Hard to say without actual field testing. Always imagined pulse lasers as laser machineguns myself, so I'm totally on board with your idea.

Regarding the graphics load though. Hey, there's no art or audio difference between 1 LRM missile and 100 LRM missiles. But there is this thing where I have no problems when an LRM 5 fires. But when a multitude of missile boats put 200+ missiles in the air, my game almost freezes and my audio gets super glitchy.

Generally speaking, there two sources of lag: network latency and graphical stutter. It sound to me like you're suffering graphical stutter cause by too many physics objects. Given how instancing works, I doubt it's the geometry of the missiles that's hounding you, but it's possible they're coded very poorly (would make me sad) and it's the raw geometry + texturing that's causing your system to stutter.

The reason I say "physics objects" is it's likely working being pushed to your CPU. What kind of GPU do you have? If it's ATI/AMD then you cannot benefit from PhysX GPU accelleration. If it's NVIDIA, it's possible your GPU is under-powered and you should look into reducing graphics draw distance. The downside of course, would be that you'd be fairly myopic in game.

Either way, it's highly unlikely to be related to the netcode and therefore not the kind of latency blinkin and I are referring to.

Just as a point of reference, the art for the pulse lasers today is likely a billboard with a nice texture on it and some particles. Very light on the graphics load, so having a bunch of them going constantly isn't going to bog anyone down - and we're talking about 10 pulses per second, you swap data with the server more frequently than that with the position data for you mech, and that should be significantly more data.