100 replies to this topic

[Vassago Rain]

Elder Thorn, on 17 December 2012 - 04:22 PM, said:

i am really not convinced by this economy change... Some things were kind of balanced by rearm / repair costs, this is now useless.

There is no reason anymore to think twice about artemis or XL Engine on some mechs

Okay.
You keep taking those 1+ tons and critical slot launchers, and that engine that makes you pop if I blow your side out.

Wait, what? You remembered there are downsides to them!?

[Elder Thorn]

Sifright, on 17 December 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

Then change the items.

Balance should never come from cost or the game is simply Pay to win.

Regardless of your thoughts on it Artemis ammo was basically golden bullets.

Thanks to this change that is no longer the case this is a good thing!

By the way, XL engines come with a rather huge down side. even the Catapult is made a lot more vulnerable by fitting an XL and it has the best profile in the game for fitting one.

and Really, Every one could make an XL engine pay for it's self the real issue was with missile rearm costs being to expensive.

Flapdrol, on 17 December 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

main argument for artemis or not was extra slot and extra ton, xl was size and getting destroyed easily, repair and rearm was easily avoided, besides, having repair and rearm balance stuff is bad because it would restrict some builds to premium users.

nope, on some mechs it WAS the cost factor for me.
Now there is nothing to stop me from crammign every ******* upgrade i can into any mech. I won't think about it anymore at all.
And i DO think, that at least a part of the balance should come from the costs - if you are using something like an XL engine or Artemis, which can really give you a huge advantage in a battle, than you should be able to use it for good.

The game is NOT pay to win, with that, it would be pay to win, if there is no way to use this stuff without paying Real Life Money

edit:
ah yes, forgot that:
Sure, i know about that other downside of the XL engine, but why should i care anymore? i can't lose money, so as long as i am puging solo, why the hell should i care about how good i am or if i survive?
The Mech i will probably use when i get to play after that patch?
AWS-8R with biggest XL engine, 4x SRM6 + Artmeis, just a few tons of ammo, full armor in the front and just run into the enemy, spillign out missiles over several mechs to collect damage and then die.
Then disconnect and play the next match in a slightly improved morale manner to keep the fun in the game, but this AWS-8R will be my money horse, because the damage it will do, will be insane

Vassago Rain, on 17 December 2012 - 04:29 PM, said:

Okay.
You keep taking those 1+ tons and critical slot launchers, and that engine that makes you pop if I blow your side out.

Wait, what? You remembered there are downsides to them!?

yes, i do, and i also remember how the devs put weeks of closed beta testing time into balancing the repair costs of the XL engine and everyone said it was important, that the XL engine is expensive to use, not only to buy, because it gives you a significant advantage on some mechs. Seriously, there is allmost no Mech left, that will not run an XL engine in my Hangar with this patch, except Atlas and Hunch.

Edited by Elder Thorn, 17 December 2012 - 04:37 PM.

[Parnage Winters]

Urza Mechwalker, on 17 December 2012 - 03:50 PM, said:

For god's sake BETA IS A LIE! THat is just an excuseso they can sell a product and whenever We find aproblem they just scream BETA!!! You are a fool if you fall for it. THat is so ridiculous taht I know a game company that tried do do that here in the country I live and they were forced to retrun ALL The money they charged for anythign in DOUBLE because that was considered an abusive way to deceive people

Who's the bigger fool? The fool who falls for it or the one who knows what he's getting into?

You are still earning a % more with premium and hero's bonus. If it's not found desirable it will be changed. Values and the rewards per game are going to be tweaked until it works. Or did you think that it was just coincidence that people started running "zombie" mechs and cheap mechs for the sake of making more money over ammo based systems?

[Sifright]

Elder Thorn, on 17 December 2012 - 04:31 PM, said:

nope, on some mechs it WAS the cost factor for me.
Now there is nothing to stop me from crammign every ******* upgrade i can into any mech. I won't think about it anymore at all.
And i DO think, that at least a part of the balance should come from the costs - if you are using something like an XL engine or Artemis, which can really give you a huge advantage in a battle, than you should be able to use it for good.

The game is NOT pay to win, with that, it would be pay to win, if there is no way to use this stuff without paying Real Life Money

The way it was before certain builds which worked well were impossible to use long term if you fought in battles which had skill parity because they lost a lot of money on a lose and only made a little on a win.

IF you had a premium bonus every match however, well you had no problems running that build at all.

That is called pay 2 win.

[Belorion]

I say we wait and see what kind of numbers come from it before making a determination. I am sure PGI will adjust if the numbers are too high or too low.

[CDLord HHGD]

Meh. Does not matter to me and I think the OP is making a mountain of a mole hill.

[Elder Thorn]

Sifright, on 17 December 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

The way it was before certain builds which worked well were impossible to use long term if you fought in battles which had skill parity because they lost a lot of money on a lose and only made a little on a win.

IF you had a premium bonus every match however, well you had no problems running that build at all.

That is called pay 2 win.

nope, that is pay 4 comfort, which is important, because... why should i want to buy premium anymore?

pay2win is, when i can buy stuff for real money that impacts the game, that i can't buy for ingame currency

Edited by Elder Thorn, 17 December 2012 - 04:40 PM.

[Belorion]

Ah but the interwebs loves some molehills.

[CDLord HHGD]

Belorion, on 17 December 2012 - 04:40 PM, said:

Ah but the interwebs loves some molehills.

QFT

[Sifright]

Elder Thorn, on 17 December 2012 - 04:31 PM, said:

nope, on some mechs it WAS the cost factor for me.
Now there is nothing to stop me from crammign every ******* upgrade i can into any mech. I won't think about it anymore at all.
And i DO think, that at least a part of the balance should come from the costs - if you are using something like an XL engine or Artemis, which can really give you a huge advantage in a battle, than you should be able to use it for good.

The game is NOT pay to win, with that, it would be pay to win, if there is no way to use this stuff without paying Real Life Money

edit:
ah yes, forgot that:
Sure, i know about that other downside of the XL engine, but why should i care anymore? i can't lose money, so as long as i am puging solo, why the hell should i care about how good i am or if i survive?
The Mech i will probably use when i get to play after that patch?
AWS-8R with biggest XL engine, 4x SRM6 + Artmeis, just a few tons of ammo, full armor in the front and just run into the enemy, spillign out missiles over several mechs to collect damage and then die.
Then disconnect and play the next match in a slightly improved morale manner to keep the fun in the game, but this AWS-8R will be my money horse, because the damage it will do, will be insane



yes, i do, and i also remember how the devs put weeks of closed beta testing time into balancing the repair costs of the XL engine and everyone said it was important, that the XL engine is expensive to use, not only to buy, because it gives you a significant advantage on some mechs. Seriously, there is allmost no Mech left, that will not run an XL engine in my Hangar with this patch, except Atlas and Hunch.

There is an interesting disconnect in this post.

Premise 1.

Money is no issue any more.

Premise 2.

I no longer care if I lose because I have money.

Premise 3.

I will play badly intentionally in pug matches because I don't need to worry about money so I can make money.

Conclusion.

You are contradicting your self, because of your emotional state.

If you actually spent some time comparing the figures you would realize you will make next to nothing if you suicide into the enemy team.

More importantly you did play this to have fun right?

I generally find I have more fun when I trying to compete and being successful,

Then again maybe i'm just strange like that.

Elder Thorn, on 17 December 2012 - 04:40 PM, said:

nope, that is pay 4 comfort, which is important, because... why should i want to buy premium anymore?

pay2win is, when i can buy stuff for real money that impacts the game, that i can't buy for ingame currency

no by definition Pay 2 Win is when you are forced to use real money to compete because although the ingame items are 'technically' available for in game cash in reality the maintenance costs make it unusable that you try to redefine that to "pay for convenience" is ridiculous.

[TruePoindexter]

Sifright, on 17 December 2012 - 02:02 PM, said:

A gold with sense...

I must be hallucinating...

Easy with the grouping - there are various -ist words that this can lead to

I'm quite excited for the changes. The game now has a genuine new player friendly course for getting them into a good mech.

[Sifright]

TruePoindexter, on 17 December 2012 - 04:43 PM, said:

Easy with the grouping - there are various -ist words that this can lead to

I'm quite excited for the changes. The game now has a genuine new player friendly course for getting them into a good mech.

aww come on every one is getting up in my grill because of that

I might have to re-evaluate my word choice but you have to admit a lot of golds do seem to actively hate newbs. it's rather disheartening.

[Elder Thorn]

Sifright, on 17 December 2012 - 04:41 PM, said:

There is an interesting disconnect in this post.

Premise 1.

Money is no issue any more.

Premise 2.

I no longer care if I lose because I have money.

Premise 3.

I will play badly intentionally in pug matches because I don't need to worry about money so I can make money.

Conclusion.

You are contradicting your self, because of your emotional state.

If you actually spent some time comparing the figures you would realize you will make next to nothing if you suicide into the enemy team.

More importantly you did play this to have fun right?

I generally find I have more fun when I trying to compete and being successful,

Then again maybe i'm just strange like that.

of course it's about fun, but the grind is an important factor for this game
first so you don't see everything in a short time
second so people actually want to buy the premium time, if you can't lose money, there is no need to buy this, and i am sure there are enough people out there who don't buy premium to SUPPORT the devs, thats what most founders bought the founers package for, premium time is bought for own comfort.

you got me slightly wrong, maybe beause i can't express what i think perfectly in english.
Thing is: They want to remove afkers with this patch, but i don't see this happening. People should LOSE money when playing bad, not win money, be it 1k c-bills.
And thats what would actually be fun for me, thats why Eve Online was fun for me - i knew, if i play dumb and lose my ship, be it to AI or in PvP, i actually LOSE (ingame-)money. Same goes for World of Tanks, even with premium it wasn't always easy to earn enough for the upkeep your biggest tanks needed, and i liked that.

Of course the competitive part is the most important one, but with this system... why put in a currency at all?
Just let me select a mech and its loadout and then let me play.

edit: damn it... fixed a major typo, i think the rest is ok^^

Sifright, on 17 December 2012 - 04:42 PM, said:

no by definition Pay 2 Win is when you are forced to use real money to compete because although the ingame items are 'technically' available for in game cash in reality the maintenance costs make it unusable that you try to redefine that to "pay for convenience" is ridiculous.

by definition? Definition from whom and from where?
By the way, that stuff is NOT unusable, if you use it good, you can use it, even now.

Edited by Elder Thorn, 17 December 2012 - 04:56 PM.

[Rotaugen]

Sifright, on 17 December 2012 - 04:44 PM, said:

aww come on every one is getting up in my grill because of that

I might have to re-evaluate my word choice but you have to admit a lot of golds do seem to actively hate newbs. it's rather disheartening.

Hate newbs? I'd like for there to be thousands more of them, and not just as target practice. I hope they play, like the game, improve, and help the next batch along.

[NocturnalBeast]

Wow, I guess they are trying to steal players away from Hawken, by catering to the lowest common denominator and turning MWO into Hawken. I too feel betrayed, I just bought more MC and was looking forward to all my friends coming back to the game for conquest, but the removal of R&R to satisfy no skill players, is total BS.

[TruePoindexter]

Sifright, on 17 December 2012 - 04:44 PM, said:

aww come on every one is getting up in my grill because of that

I might have to re-evaluate my word choice but you have to admit a lot of golds do seem to actively hate newbs. it's rather disheartening.

There are a lot of people who complain a lot. I've found it's fairly well distributed and I can on some level see where some founders would be upset about feeling that their premium time is going to be wasted/not as valuable as it had been. Kind of like getting a new computer only to have a new CPU release just next week - you'd feel a bit upset.

That said it's completely wrongheaded. Premium time and founders/hero bonuses have always been percentage based. Now instead of mostly improving earnings from the base win/loss value now it will improve earnings from your performance. I personally think this is a good thing because I have seen some founders that are truly horrible pilots while there are some non-premium/non-founder players who are gimped in their earnings due to it mostly being based on the base.

Edited by TruePoindexter, 17 December 2012 - 04:55 PM.

[Rotaugen]

TruePoindexter, on 17 December 2012 - 04:51 PM, said:

There are a lot of people who complain a lot. I've found it's fairly well distributed and I can on some level see where some founders would be upset about feeling that their premium time is going to be wasted/not as valuable as it had been. Kind of like getting a new computer only to have a new CPU release just next week - you'd feel a bit upset.

That said it's completely wrongheaded. Premium time and founders/hero bonuses have always been percentage based. Now instead of mostly improving earnings from the base win/loss value now it will improve earnings from your performance. I personally think this is a good thing because I have seen some founders that are truly horrible pilots.

It's kind of like the debate between "promotions based on merit" versus "promotions based on seniority". The skilled and hardworking want the former, the lazy and incompetent want the latter.

[Particle Man]

Vassago Rain, on 17 December 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

It had too much of a focus on economics, and too little robots fighting.

you must be playing a different game than me. All i can see in the game is fighting robots. Is there some other game mode i'm missing?

[Rotaugen]

Particle Man, on 17 December 2012 - 04:56 PM, said:

you must be playing a different game than me. All i can see in the game is fighting robots. Is there some other game mode i'm missing?

You must have missed the "accrual versus cash basis" economic game mode, fought between financial analyst and economist clan teams.

Edited by Rotaugen, 17 December 2012 - 04:59 PM.

[Sifright]

quasihuman, on 17 December 2012 - 04:51 PM, said:

Wow, I guess they are trying to steal players away from Hawken, by catering to the lowest common denominator and turning MWO into Hawken. I too feel betrayed, I just bought more MC and was looking forward to all my friends coming back to the game for conquest, but the removal of R&R to satisfy no skill players, is total BS.

Yes thats right this game is now exactly like hawken,

Don't like it leave.

ahhh the catharsis involved in this is just so heedy, it's like a shot of opiates after just walking a mile on a broken ankle.